Adam Silver needs to intervene w/ trade. (Stern intervened w/ Jeff Green trade)

[ozgod]

IT4 was 'as-is' part of the deal .... that is why Zizic and the 2018 Nets pick were included

many have stated this deal is lopsided as the Cavs received alot of pieces for Kyrie

nobody is going to be sure IT4 is going to require surgery (not a broken bone) or that he is going to miss a few months or half a season.    Not even medical experts will know for certain

If IT4 is able to jog without pain vs he is not able to jog and still hobbling --- would love to know this.

This is why the Cavs are doing this...because there's no definitive answer in the public domain about how injured he is. It's basically a he said-she said. Think about it, before this trade even happened we were all expecting IT to not need surgery, to show up to training camp, to possibly start the season. Now people are talking about him missing a chunk of the season, possibly needing surgery.

Unfortunately for him, IT is being used as leverage. It will come down to how badly each side wants the deal to go through and how flexible/inflexible they are willing to be to make it happen.

[Tr1boy]

IT4 was 'as-is' part of the deal .... that is why Zizic and the 2018 Nets pick were included

Given that he was still subject to a physical and the trade is contingent on said physical this is demonstrably untrue.

nope

Listen , he injured his hips.... its not like he can do backflips

Kyrie for IT4, Crowder, Zizic , 2018 nets pick is an ovepay..... why do you need to include Crowder or Zizic for example?..........BUT bc of IT4 injury situation,  the slight overpay makes sense

1) Crowder, Zizic, 2018 nets pick alone prob trumps any deal the Cavs are able to obtain in the open market (outside for Jackson/Bledsoe , which the Cavs weren't able to net in the 1st place)

Bucks offering Middleton, Brogdon, future 1st  for example is not better than offer 1)

[Tr1boy]

Cavs needed to quietly pass or overlook the physical testing on IT4 for this trade to be completed

Danny  should have asked for this condition to be waived in the 1st place

[crimson_stallion]

IT4 was 'as-is' part of the deal .... that is why Zizic and the 2018 Nets pick were included

Given that he was still subject to a physical and the trade is contingent on said physical this is demonstrably untrue.

nope

Listen , he injured his hips.... its not like he can do backflips

Kyrie for IT4, Crowder, Zizic , 2018 nets pick is an ovepay..... why do you need to include Crowder or Zizic for example?..........BUT bc of IT4 injury situation,  the slight overpay makes sense

1) Crowder, Zizic, 2018 nets pick alone prob trumps any deal the Cavs are able to obtain in the open market (outside for Jackson/Bledsoe , which the Cavs weren't able to net in the 1st place)

Bucks offering Middleton, Brogdon, future 1st  for example is not better than offer 1)

Crowder and Zizic would have been required regardless to match salary, as Thomas is only making $6.2m this year and Kyrie I believe is on around $19m. 

Crowder and Zizic added an additional $8.6m to the deal bringing the total up to the 14.6m required to pull the deal off.

So Boston really had no choice about including Crowder and Zizic.  If they didn't include Crowder then it would have had to have been Brown or Tatum (the only other guys with sufficiently large contracts).

Regardless, my argument here would be that IF Thomas were healthy, then the base package of IT + Crowder + Zizic should have been enough to make this deal happen.  Worst case if they still aren't completely satisfied, you throw in a couple of second rounders or maybe a Boston 1st (which would be a late first anyway). 

It's the addition of the Brooklyn pick, as valuable as that pick is, that makes this deal clearly and strongly lopsided in Cleveland's favour IF Thomas were healthy.  He isn't healthy though, and it seems obvious to me that this pick was included to compensate for that fact.

We've all seen how possessive Danny is of his picks.  He wouldn't give up this year's Brooklyn pick for Jimmy Butler straight up.  There is no way he would have just thrown in an UNPROTECTED Nets pick (which could easily end up #1) unless he felt it was justified - and the only way I can imagine he would feel that is if he knew Thomas' injury was a liability, and that he needed to compensate for it.

If you consider that Thomas may miss half a season AND that he is on the last year of his contract, now it makes total sense why Danny was willing to offer so much (including that pick) in order to make the deal happen. Seems clear to me, then, that this was all out in the open at the time.  If Danny was trying to hide IT's injury, he never would have included the Brooklyn pick.

[greece66]

https://www.reddit.com/r/bostonceltics/comments/6wgn0n/adam_silver_needs_to_intervene_with_the_trade/

[tazzmaniac]

There is no reason for Silver to intervene.  There is no reason for compensation.  The trade is not official until all conditions are met which includes IT passing his physical.  See highlights from the cba faq. 

When teams wish to complete a trade they must set up a "trade call" with the league office. If the teams wish to complete the trade over a weekend they must notify the league office on Friday, otherwise the trade call cannot be held until the following Monday. The trade is not complete until all terms have been agreed to during the trade call.

During the trade call the teams and the league office review:
•The exact terms of the trade (players involved, cash, draft picks, etc.).
•Contract details for each player, including remaining seasons, salary and any trade bonuses.
•Health information for all players, including any factors that could affect a player's ability to play basketball at any point in his career. Teams must disclose any relevant health information.
•Insurance information, including any exclusions (see question number 73).
•Each team's responsibilities and understandings.

Following the trade call each team sends the league office an email with the terms of the transaction, and the league office sends the involved teams instructions for conditions that must be satisfied before the trade becomes official (such as physical exams). When all conditions have been satisfied, the league office sends another email notifying the teams that the trade is complete. Any term or condition that is not specified in the trade call is not enforceable.

[Tr1boy]

There is no reason for Silver to intervene.  There is no reason for compensation.  The trade is not official until all conditions are met which includes IT passing his physical.  See highlights from the cba faq. 

When teams wish to complete a trade they must set up a "trade call" with the league office. If the teams wish to complete the trade over a weekend they must notify the league office on Friday, otherwise the trade call cannot be held until the following Monday. The trade is not complete until all terms have been agreed to during the trade call.

During the trade call the teams and the league office review:
•The exact terms of the trade (players involved, cash, draft picks, etc.).
•Contract details for each player, including remaining seasons, salary and any trade bonuses.
•Health information for all players, including any factors that could affect a player's ability to play basketball at any point in his career. Teams must disclose any relevant health information.
•Insurance information, including any exclusions (see question number 73).
•Each team's responsibilities and understandings.

Following the trade call each team sends the league office an email with the terms of the transaction, and the league office sends the involved teams instructions for conditions that must be satisfied before the trade becomes official (such as physical exams). When all conditions have been satisfied, the league office sends another email notifying the teams that the trade is complete. Any term or condition that is not specified in the trade call is not enforceable.

No. IT4 50-50 not passing the physical was a given from the start

[Tr1boy]

How is any player who recently came off an injury or surgery suppose to pass a physical??

[tazzmaniac]

There is no reason for Silver to intervene.  There is no reason for compensation.  The trade is not official until all conditions are met which includes IT passing his physical.  See highlights from the cba faq. 

When teams wish to complete a trade they must set up a "trade call" with the league office. If the teams wish to complete the trade over a weekend they must notify the league office on Friday, otherwise the trade call cannot be held until the following Monday. The trade is not complete until all terms have been agreed to during the trade call.

During the trade call the teams and the league office review:
•The exact terms of the trade (players involved, cash, draft picks, etc.).
•Contract details for each player, including remaining seasons, salary and any trade bonuses.
•Health information for all players, including any factors that could affect a player's ability to play basketball at any point in his career. Teams must disclose any relevant health information.
•Insurance information, including any exclusions (see question number 73).
•Each team's responsibilities and understandings.

Following the trade call each team sends the league office an email with the terms of the transaction, and the league office sends the involved teams instructions for conditions that must be satisfied before the trade becomes official (such as physical exams). When all conditions have been satisfied, the league office sends another email notifying the teams that the trade is complete. Any term or condition that is not specified in the trade call is not enforceable.

No. IT4 50-50 not passing the physical was a given from the start

Yes.  IT's physical was a condition of the trade or else the trade would already be official. 

[tazzmaniac]

How is any player who recently came off an injury or surgery suppose to pass a physical??

The story has been he wouldn't need surgery but might miss the beginning of the season.  If the Cavs agreed with that assessment, they would have already passed him and completed the trade. 

It has been 3 months from the injury.  He should be well along his recovery but apparently he isn't running yet.  They clearly are concerned that the injury is significantly worse and does require surgery. 

[CelticsElite]

There is no reason for Silver to intervene.  There is no reason for compensation.  The trade is not official until all conditions are met which includes IT passing his physical.  See highlights from the cba faq. 

When teams wish to complete a trade they must set up a "trade call" with the league office. If the teams wish to complete the trade over a weekend they must notify the league office on Friday, otherwise the trade call cannot be held until the following Monday. The trade is not complete until all terms have been agreed to during the trade call.

During the trade call the teams and the league office review:
•The exact terms of the trade (players involved, cash, draft picks, etc.).
•Contract details for each player, including remaining seasons, salary and any trade bonuses.
•Health information for all players, including any factors that could affect a player's ability to play basketball at any point in his career. Teams must disclose any relevant health information.
•Insurance information, including any exclusions (see question number 73).
•Each team's responsibilities and understandings.

Following the trade call each team sends the league office an email with the terms of the transaction, and the league office sends the involved teams instructions for conditions that must be satisfied before the trade becomes official (such as physical exams). When all conditions have been satisfied, the league office sends another email notifying the teams that the trade is complete. Any term or condition that is not specified in the trade call is not enforceable.

No. IT4 50-50 not passing the physical was a given from the start

Yes.  IT's physical was a condition of the trade or else the trade would already be official.

if the trade wasn't official, why were the press conferences from ainge on the trade? Why did the nba post a picture welcoming kyrie to Boston ?

[Neurotic Guy]

The remedy should be to void the trade or not, not to give additional compensation. The Celtics didn't do anything wrong.

But why would/could the trade be voided?  Was there no contract between the two teams when the trade was agreed to?  If there was complete disclosure of ITs condition (and I'd be very surprised if there wasn't)  what possible cause would Cavs have to back out of the deal?  NO compensation. Deal done.  Silver should intervene to penalize Cleveland for reneging (or threatening to).

Of course the narrative changes completely if information was withheld or ITs condition was minimized prior to the trade.

[LilRip]

The remedy should be to void the trade or not, not to give additional compensation. The Celtics didn't do anything wrong.

But why would/could the trade be voided?  Was there no contract between the two teams when the trade was agreed to?  If there was complete disclosure of ITs condition (and I'd be very surprised if there wasn't)  what possible cause would Cavs have to back out of the deal?  NO compensation. Deal done.  Silver should intervene to penalize Cleveland for reneging (or threatening to).

Of course the narrative changes completely if information was withheld or ITs condition was minimized prior to the trade.

This! If anything, Cavs should be penalized I think for reneging on the deal, if there was full disclosure.

[kozlodoev]

I think Adam Silver needs to step in at this point. He can be that neutral third party as to whether additional compensation is warranted.

Quick question, I could be wrong, but isn't surgery up to the player and not the team?

exactly. This is a rare situation where medical diagnosis vary by doctors post trade

Have you ever bought a house? Let me explain how it works. After you agree on the deal, you typically run an inspection. For all practical purposes, if you're not satisfied with the results of that inspection, you can back out. The seller can't and won't try to prove to you whether your concerns are warranted or not. Isaiah Thomas' physical is the same thing.

To use your house example. This would be like the seller saying the roof needs to be replaced. The buyer acknowledges the roof concern and agrees on the deal. The buyer still needs to go through with the inspection for the loan. Then the buyer backs out of the deal because the inspector tells him the roof needs to be replaced.

exactly. The condition of the house was not a secret

Doesn't matter. The buyer can say "I'm not satisfied with what I found about the roof". The disclosure is irrelevant. That's why waiving inspection to strengthen your offer happens all the time.

[Roy H.]

What are the bylaws against one team suing another?

If I was the Celts, I'd be readying a lawsuit / arbitration complaint. Breach of the "covenant of good faith and fair dealing". Proof is tough, but it would be fun to have Celtics lawyers depose Dan Gilbert, etc., about their shady negotiating tactics.