WojBomb - Cavs evaluating options after IT physical...

[celticinorlando]

If this deal dies Boston has no legit starting point guard. They have three  back up and a damaged Thomas. This season will be a step back if this is the case.

Getting the pick back is great but this is not a pg draft. It is a wing and big draft.

[RJ87]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

I don't see it. It's not like the Cavs have a ton of leverage either. They need to trade Kyrie.

The Cav's position has actually improved, because now the market value for Irving has been established at a star, a lottery pick, a veteran starter, and a prospect.  If the trade doesn't go through the Cavs are still trading a 24 year old superstar who's trade value has just been established by Danny Ainge, who has repeatedly been called the stingiest GM in the league over the past few years.

I would bet part of the impetus for holding up the Celtics trade is that the Cavs already have a comparable, or slightly better offer on the table from another team. 

Sorry, but this is on the verge of becoming a complete disaster for the Celtics.

I would be completely shocked if you're correct.  No other team can come close to matching this offer, and why bother trying if the Cavs are going to renege?  How many teams out there have a star they'd be willing to trade for Kyrie, plus an unprotected 2018 1st from a bottom 5 team, plus a good starter on arguably the best contract in the NBA, plus a good prospect.

You take IT out of the deal and few teams can match.  And that's why the Celtics gave so much, so that IT's health wouldn't matter.

Of course IT's health matters. If the Cavs determined IT's hip needs surgery and he gets it soon, then he's not back until mid January - and that's the absolute best case scenario. I'd put his return if he had surgery in the next 2-3 weeks at somewhere around the All-Star break or after. That'd put the Cavs in the situation of having a very short time to work in a player coming of a major injury with little time before the playoffs start. Possibly their last playoff run with LeBron. That's a different scenario than getting IT back in November/December.

[celticinorlando]

No offense to Thomas but he isn't helping anyone this season win. Dude is damaged and eventually it is going to come down to surgery.

So if Danny needs to make a plan that replaces him immediately because smart, rozier and Larkin are not the answer. Without a healthy Thomas and without his production Boston is a 4 seed and wins maybe on round of the playoffs.

Keeping Thomas is a step back for the franchise

[CelticsElite]

If this deal dies Boston has no legit starting point guard. They have three  back up and a damaged Thomas. This season will be a step back if this is the case.

Getting the pick back is great but this is not a pg draft. It is a wing and big draft.

tank the season

Hayward and horford probably make us too good

[slamdunk]

Just give Cleveland the right to swap 2nd rounders in 2023 and call it a day.

[blink]

If the trade flops, then it is time to put Marcus Smart into the starting lineup and see what he can do.  The roster is still talented and we are still deep.  We have to play different without IT, but since only 4 guys are coming back from last season anyways, there will automatically be a new dynamic.

We aren't suddenly going to become a lotto team because IT is hurt.  I think people's emotions are getting a bit overcharged here.

[Granath]

No offense to Thomas but he isn't helping anyone this season win. Dude is damaged and eventually it is going to come down to surgery.

So if Danny needs to make a plan that replaces him immediately because smart, rozier and Larkin are not the answer. Without a healthy Thomas and without his production Boston is a 4 seed and wins maybe on round of the playoffs.

Keeping Thomas is a step back for the franchise

Thanks for that projection but you're simply talking out of your backside. You have no idea what's going to happen with his hip.

[j804]

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20475779

more from Woj says Cleveland will ask for Tatum or Brown, says Celts will refuse adding anything. this thing could fall apart if they are asking for that much they prob want a first at the least don't see Ainge giving it to them though.

[blink]

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20475779

more from Woj says Cleveland will ask for Tatum or Brown, says Celts will refuse adding anything. this thing could fall apart if they are asking for that much they prob want a first at the least don't see Ainge giving it to them though.

Who knows how accurate that report is, but if it is accurate Clev is just screwing themselves over.  No way will DA include Tatum or Brown.  DA needs to call their bluff if that is the case.  Let Clev cancel the trade, they have a lot more to lose from it going south than we do.

[GreenShooter]

Can Kyrie sit out if he doesn't get dealt to a team of his choice? He can put the clamps on Cleveland as well as they're trying to do the C's. Or he can not approve a trade to a team NOT of his choice and sit out until he does.

[jpotter33]

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20475779

more from Woj says Cleveland will ask for Tatum or Brown, says Celts will refuse adding anything. this thing could fall apart if they are asking for that much they prob want a first at the least don't see Ainge giving it to them though.

Who knows how accurate that report is, but if it is accurate Clev is just screwing themselves over.  No way will DA include Tatum or Brown.  DA needs to call their bluff if that is the case.  Let Clev cancel the trade, they have a lot more to lose from it going south than we do.

Yeah, if this is true then Cleveland is delusional, especially their new GM. Let them walk elsewhere and get fifty cents on the dollar for Kyrie, because no other team is going to come close to our offer.

I'm just ready for this deal to be done and over with. Cleveland clearly is being delusional if they think they're entitled to Tatum or Brown, too.

All that being said, I'm not sure I buy it. Woj has been sketchy with his Boston and Cleveland reporting the last several years, along with his general axe to grind against Lebron. They might initially ask for one of those two, but I think if anything else is added it's a compromise of something like a late first round pick in 2019. Danny won't agree to anything else.

[Boris Badenov]

Can Kyrie sit out if he doesn't get dealt to a team of his choice? He can put the clamps on Cleveland as well as they're trying to do the C's. Or he can not approve a trade to a team NOT of his choice and sit out until he does.

I don't think sitting out is a realistic scenario.

But, he has a trade kicker, which he was willing to waive for the Cs. As I understand things, if he's getting moved to an unappealing team he could refuse to waive it, forcing the Cavs to take back more salary (and pay the kicker).

[Dino Pitino]

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20475779

more from Woj says Cleveland will ask for Tatum or Brown, says Celts will refuse adding anything.

HAHAHAHA, that's rich.

[smokeablount]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

I don't see it. It's not like the Cavs have a ton of leverage either. They need to trade Kyrie.

The Cav's position has actually improved, because now the market value for Irving has been established at a star, a lottery pick, a veteran starter, and a prospect.  If the trade doesn't go through the Cavs are still trading a 24 year old superstar who's trade value has just been established by Danny Ainge, who has repeatedly been called the stingiest GM in the league over the past few years.

I would bet part of the impetus for holding up the Celtics trade is that the Cavs already have a comparable, or slightly better offer on the table from another team. 

Sorry, but this is on the verge of becoming a complete disaster for the Celtics.

That market value has absolutely not been established. IT doesn't count as a star if he can't play.

[tarheelsxxiii]

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=20475779

more from Woj says Cleveland will ask for Tatum or Brown, says Celts will refuse adding anything.

HAHAHAHA, that's rich.

The only part I do agree with is that both teams are (probably unfairly) dragging Thomas' value through the mud right now.