WojBomb - Cavs evaluating options after IT physical...

[saltlover]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

1. IT was always going to sign with whomever offered him the most money.  That hasn't changed, and if the trade falls through, he'll still resign with Boston if they offer him the most.  And with Bird rights, they can. At most, Ainge cost himself some goodwill next summer that would have let IT come back to him and match the best offer, rather than exceeding it.  But it's not even clear the Celtics would have been afforded that courtesy anyway (and I'm not saying they should have).

2. If Crowder seems like he's going to be a malcontent, he can be moved in a minute.  He's still on one of the most valuable contracts in the league, and the Celtics still have 4 other viable players at his position, including a max free agent and the #3 picks from the prior two drafts. 

3. On the other hand, if the trade falls through they still have a potential superstar with the Nets pick, not to mention the Lakers/SAC pick, not to mention Brown, not to mention IT (see #1) if the Celtics are correct about his health.

4. Again, see #1.

The only problem with this analysis is that Boston almost certainly won't offer him the most money.

That may very well be why Ainge was willing to make the trade in the first place, but then they're in the same position pre-trade, and not in a worse one.

[hwangjini_1]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

Yeah, but you're wrong. Woj was just on ESPN and he said that the price will likely be the C's own pick, the Memphis one, or the Clippers one. That's if they get anything all, as he said Ainge feels he was straightforward about the hip.

If Thomas misses most of the season, isn't Cleveland just better off acquiring Brogdon, Middleton, and a 1st from Milwaukee then just picking up another lowly 1st from Boston?  Or maybe Milwaukee sweetens their offer or the Suns actually cave on Jackson?  I'm not saying the Cavs would do that, but if they find those offers better than not having Thomas this year (which they need because of James) then I certainly could see them backing out of the trade without Boston doing something else of real value.

perhaps. but i think the cavs want to have a clean salary slate after next season and a great draft pick for the rebuild that commences after this year.

indeed, ideally for cleveland, IT would play in all 82 regular season games. but, what the cavs are really focused on is the playoffs, not the regular season. so, if IT will be ready for the final days of the regular season and the playoffs, this is still a good deal for the cavs.

IT helps them with their play off run. then, IT leaves and frees up salary space and they are set to build around the brooklyn pick.

[celticsclay]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

Yeah, but you're wrong. Woj was just on ESPN and he said that the price will likely be the C's own pick, the Memphis one, or the Clippers one. That's if they get anything all, as he said Ainge feels he was straightforward about the hip.

If Thomas misses most of the season, isn't Cleveland just better off acquiring Brogdon, Middleton, and a 1st from Milwaukee then just picking up another lowly 1st from Boston?  Or maybe Milwaukee sweetens their offer or the Suns actually cave on Jackson?  I'm not saying the Cavs would do that, but if they find those offers better than not having Thomas this year (which they need because of James) then I certainly could see them backing out of the trade without Boston doing something else of real value.

That would really torpedo clevelands already slim chances of winning the title. Brogdon would come off the bench behind rose and Middleton is not an all star level player. The Brooklyn pick is far and away the highest upside asset of either deal. I'm also unsure how this isn't a much worse deal than what the suns have offered.

[SparzWizard]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

Yeah, but you're wrong. Woj was just on ESPN and he said that the price will likely be the C's own pick, the Memphis one, or the Clippers one. That's if they get anything all, as he said Ainge feels he was straightforward about the hip.

If Thomas misses most of the season, isn't Cleveland just better off acquiring Brogdon, Middleton, and a 1st from Milwaukee then just picking up another lowly 1st from Boston?  Or maybe Milwaukee sweetens their offer or the Suns actually cave on Jackson?  I'm not saying the Cavs would do that, but if they find those offers better than not having Thomas this year (which they need because of James) then I certainly could see them backing out of the trade without Boston doing something else of real value.

That would really torpedo clevelands already slim chances of winning the title. Brogdon would come off the bench behind rose and Middleton is not an all star level player. The Brooklyn pick is far and away the highest upside asset of either deal. I'm also unsure how this isn't a much worse deal than what the suns have offered.

Don't forget to add in the LeBron factor- he is gone if the Cavs do not make sound moves.

[csfansince60s]

So if I were the Cavs I'd ask for rozier as well but I wouldn't give up that asset since they are already getting the Brooklyn 18 on top of jae and it4.  I would be willing to throw in demtrius Jackson but I'd want a 2nd rounder back.

Can't throw in a player we don't have .

Id give em James Young too....

And...R.J. Hunter!!!

Let them go fornicate themselves.

[IDreamCeltics]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

I don't see it. It's not like the Cavs have a ton of leverage either. They need to trade Kyrie.

The Cav's position has actually improved, because now the market value for Irving has been established at a star, a lottery pick, a veteran starter, and a prospect.  If the trade doesn't go through the Cavs are still trading a 24 year old superstar who's trade value has just been established by Danny Ainge, who has repeatedly been called the stingiest GM in the league over the past few years.

I would bet part of the impetus for holding up the Celtics trade is that the Cavs already have a comparable, or slightly better offer on the table from another team. 

Sorry, but this is on the verge of becoming a complete disaster for the Celtics.

[csfansince60s]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.   

you would be a terrible businessman and negotiator. LA pick? BWAHAHAHAHAHA  are u insane? WE ALREADY GAVE THEM THE BROOKLYN PICK TO MAKE UP FOR IT's INJURY! THE CAVS CAN POUND SAND. i tell u what i will throw in a bag of classic ABA red white and blue basketballs. how about that?

No...no basketballs, no ice creams, NOTHING......snakes.

[saltlover]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

I don't see it. It's not like the Cavs have a ton of leverage either. They need to trade Kyrie.

The Cav's position has actually improved, because now the market value for Irving has been established at a star, a lottery pick, a veteran starter, and a prospect.  If the trade doesn't go through the Cavs are still trading a 24 year old superstar who's trade value has just been established by Danny Ainge, who has repeatedly been called the stingiest GM in the league over the past few years.

I would bet part of the impetus for holding up the Celtics trade is that the Cavs already have a comparable, or slightly better offer on the table from another team. 

Sorry, but this is on the verge of becoming a complete disaster for the Celtics.

I would be completely shocked if you're correct.  No other team can come close to matching this offer, and why bother trying if the Cavs are going to renege?  How many teams out there have a star they'd be willing to trade for Kyrie, plus an unprotected 2018 1st from a bottom 5 team, plus a good starter on arguably the best contract in the NBA, plus a good prospect.

You take IT out of the deal and few teams can match.  And that's why the Celtics gave so much, so that IT's health wouldn't matter.

[CelticsElite]

https://www.nba.com/amp/league/article/2017/08/27/morning-shootaround-aug-27-2017

Boston is not inclined to add anything else to the trade completed this week centered around Kyrie Irving, one source told The Athletic Saturday night. The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity given the sensitive nature of the talks, insisted the Celtics were upfront with the Cavs on everything and that nothing on the physical should've surprised anyone. Thomas flew into Cleveland on Friday for his physical. Although Thomas bruised his hip in March, one source said Thomas has always dealt with structural issues to the hip and it has never been an issue. While no one reached by The Athletic on Saturday was willing to put a timeline on when Thomas might return to action, the Celtics don't sound like a franchise willing to increase their offer. One source indicated Saturday the Celtics' final offer of Thomas, Jae Crowder, Ante Zizic and Brooklyn's unprotected first-round pick was their best offer. There will be no more negotiating.

Take it or leave it

[tazzmaniac]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

I don't see it. It's not like the Cavs have a ton of leverage either. They need to trade Kyrie.

The Cav's position has actually improved, because now the market value for Irving has been established at a star, a lottery pick, a veteran starter, and a prospect.  If the trade doesn't go through the Cavs are still trading a 24 year old superstar who's trade value has just been established by Danny Ainge, who has repeatedly been called the stingiest GM in the league over the past few years.

I would bet part of the impetus for holding up the Celtics trade is that the Cavs already have a comparable, or slightly better offer on the table from another team. 

Sorry, but this is on the verge of becoming a complete disaster for the Celtics.

I would be completely shocked if you're correct.  No other team can come close to matching this offer, and why bother trying if the Cavs are going to renege?  How many teams out there have a star they'd be willing to trade for Kyrie, plus an unprotected 2018 1st from a bottom 5 team, plus a good starter on arguably the best contract in the NBA, plus a good prospect.

You take IT out of the deal and few teams can match.  And that's why the Celtics gave so much, so that IT's health wouldn't matter.

If IT needs surgery and is likely to miss the season, his value goes to zero for the Cavs.  Other teams could beat Nets 1st, Crowder and Zizic.  It is just a matter of if they would. 

[kozlodoev]

If IT needs surgery and is likely to miss the season, his value goes to zero for the Cavs.  Other teams could beat Nets 1st, Crowder and Zizic.  It is just a matter of if they would.

The only other known offer is Middleton, Brogdon, and a 1st. Not sure this is beating Crowder and the Nets pick.

[greece66]

https://www.nba.com/amp/league/article/2017/08/27/morning-shootaround-aug-27-2017

Boston is not inclined to add anything else to the trade completed this week centered around Kyrie Irving, one source told The Athletic Saturday night. The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity given the sensitive nature of the talks, insisted the Celtics were upfront with the Cavs on everything and that nothing on the physical should've surprised anyone. Thomas flew into Cleveland on Friday for his physical. Although Thomas bruised his hip in March, one source said Thomas has always dealt with structural issues to the hip and it has never been an issue. While no one reached by The Athletic on Saturday was willing to put a timeline on when Thomas might return to action, the Celtics don't sound like a franchise willing to increase their offer. One source indicated Saturday the Celtics' final offer of Thomas, Jae Crowder, Ante Zizic and Brooklyn's unprotected first-round pick was their best offer. There will be no more negotiating.

Take it or leave it

That's exactly the response I expected from the C's.

[saltlover]

If IT needs surgery and is likely to miss the season, his value goes to zero for the Cavs.  Other teams could beat Nets 1st, Crowder and Zizic.  It is just a matter of if they would.

The only other known offer is Middleton, Brogdon, and a 1st. Not sure this is beating Crowder and the Nets pick.

We also heard Bledsoe, Bender, and a Miami Heat 1st from Phoenix.  Also not beating Crowder, Nets pick, and Zizic.

[kozlodoev]

If IT needs surgery and is likely to miss the season, his value goes to zero for the Cavs.  Other teams could beat Nets 1st, Crowder and Zizic.  It is just a matter of if they would.

The only other known offer is Middleton, Brogdon, and a 1st. Not sure this is beating Crowder and the Nets pick.

We also heard Bledsoe, Bender, and a Miami Heat 1st from Phoenix.  Also not beating Crowder, Nets pick, and Zizic.

Pff. Let them void. Between Porter, Bagley, Bamba, and Ayton we have a decent chance to make well out of the 2018 draft.

Fear the Sword looks like they expect us to add Smart to the draft, but my membership hasn't gone through yet so that I can laugh at them and tell them that we think we should either stay pat or swap in Rozier for Zizic.

[j804]

http://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/20474899

Woj still saying the Cavs are going to ask for more