WojBomb - Cavs evaluating options after IT physical...

[slamtheking]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

Yeah, but you're wrong. Woj was just on ESPN and he said that the price will likely be the C's own pick, the Memphis one, or the Clippers one. That's if they get anything all, as he said Ainge feels he was straightforward about the hip.

This is the key factor.  if Danny was straightforward with the condition of IT's hip, Cleveland has to take this as the done deal.  that's the cost of getting the Nets pick unconditionally.  Cleveland would/should have to prove deception on Danny's part in order to renege on the agreement from their end or have any basis for demanding more assets

[Moranis]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

Yeah, but you're wrong. Woj was just on ESPN and he said that the price will likely be the C's own pick, the Memphis one, or the Clippers one. That's if they get anything all, as he said Ainge feels he was straightforward about the hip.

If Thomas misses most of the season, isn't Cleveland just better off acquiring Brogdon, Middleton, and a 1st from Milwaukee then just picking up another lowly 1st from Boston?  Or maybe Milwaukee sweetens their offer or the Suns actually cave on Jackson?  I'm not saying the Cavs would do that, but if they find those offers better than not having Thomas this year (which they need because of James) then I certainly could see them backing out of the trade without Boston doing something else of real value. 

[Moranis]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

Yeah, but you're wrong. Woj was just on ESPN and he said that the price will likely be the C's own pick, the Memphis one, or the Clippers one. That's if they get anything all, as he said Ainge feels he was straightforward about the hip.

This is the key factor.  if Danny was straightforward with the condition of IT's hip, Cleveland has to take this as the done deal.  that's the cost of getting the Nets pick unconditionally.  Cleveland would/should have to prove deception on Danny's part in order to renege on the agreement from their end or have any basis for demanding more assets

no they wouldn't.  Ainge could have been straightforward and still been wrong.  Boston might very well think Thomas didn't need surgery and would be fine soon after the season started, but if Cleveland believes he needs surgery and will miss the season (or most of it), that is all they need. 

[jambr380]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

What are you talking about? That is what you are hoping the damage is limited to?? That would be an utter disaster. This whole thing has been ridiculous and I agree that it'd be difficult to mend fences with IT/Crowder now, but, oh well. We would still have the BKN pick back, a cost controlled young big man, and Crowder under contract for three additional years - it's not like he is going to sit out three years until he becomes a FA.

[Eddie20]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

Yeah, but you're wrong. Woj was just on ESPN and he said that the price will likely be the C's own pick, the Memphis one, or the Clippers one. That's if they get anything all, as he said Ainge feels he was straightforward about the hip.

If Thomas misses most of the season, isn't Cleveland just better off acquiring Brogdon, Middleton, and a 1st from Milwaukee then just picking up another lowly 1st from Boston?  Or maybe Milwaukee sweetens their offer or the Suns actually cave on Jackson?  I'm not saying the Cavs would do that, but if they find those offers better than not having Thomas this year (which they need because of James) then I certainly could see them backing out of the trade without Boston doing something else of real value.

Brogdon is turning 25 in a few months and that 1st rd pick will be in the late teens/early 20's. Not exactly the young prospect the Cavs seem hopeful to start their rebuild with. The Suns is a different story if they add Jackson.

[KGs Knee]

It'd be nice if Kyrie was leveraging himself against the Cavs behind the scenes right now.   Tell the Cavs you won't waive your trade kicker for any other deal. That's a lot of extra lux tax money they would be on the hook for.

[saltlover]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

1. IT was always going to sign with whomever offered him the most money.  That hasn't changed, and if the trade falls through, he'll still resign with Boston if they offer him the most.  And with Bird rights, they can. At most, Ainge cost himself some goodwill next summer that would have let IT come back to him and match the best offer, rather than exceeding it.  But it's not even clear the Celtics would have been afforded that courtesy anyway (and I'm not saying they should have).

2. If Crowder seems like he's going to be a malcontent, he can be moved in a minute.  He's still on one of the most valuable contracts in the league, and the Celtics still have 4 other viable players at his position, including a max free agent and the #3 picks from the prior two drafts. 

3. On the other hand, if the trade falls through they still have a potential superstar with the Nets pick, not to mention the Lakers/SAC pick, not to mention Brown, not to mention IT (see #1) if the Celtics are correct about his health.

4. Again, see #1.

[makaveli]

for me, it's take it or leave it scenario
there are other options, it is not end of the world.
that package can land us a lot.
but i would really like to see Kyrie with no additional players involved

[Fan from VT]

It would be interesting for Danny to say to all league GMs "well, you see that this package is available, even if you believe the Cavs, what would you give us for all this is Cleveland voids it?"

[jambr380]

It would be interesting for Danny to say to all league GMs "well, you see that this package is available, even if you believe the Cavs, what would you give us for all this is Cleveland voids it?"

Yeah, Danny finally moved a BKN pick (and Crowder); it happened. Other teams would surely be interested. Unfortunately, a lot of star players have already been moved this summer. I am not sure who we else we could obtain that would clearly make us a better team and is still young enough that he hasn't yet reached his potential.

And, let's just skip the AD talk for now. 

[slamtheking]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

Yeah, but you're wrong. Woj was just on ESPN and he said that the price will likely be the C's own pick, the Memphis one, or the Clippers one. That's if they get anything all, as he said Ainge feels he was straightforward about the hip.

This is the key factor.  if Danny was straightforward with the condition of IT's hip, Cleveland has to take this as the done deal.  that's the cost of getting the Nets pick unconditionally.  Cleveland would/should have to prove deception on Danny's part in order to renege on the agreement from their end or have any basis for demanding more assets

no they wouldn't.  Ainge could have been straightforward and still been wrong.  Boston might very well think Thomas didn't need surgery and would be fine soon after the season started, but if Cleveland believes he needs surgery and will miss the season (or most of it), that is all they need. 

if there's no deception on Danny's part, Cleveland has no grounds to expand their demands.  Cleveland went into this trade with eyes wide open. 

if they don't like it, too bad.  either take the deal as is or call off the deal.  I'll gladly take back that pick

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.   

you would be a terrible businessman and negotiator. LA pick? BWAHAHAHAHAHA  are u insane? WE ALREADY GAVE THEM THE BROOKLYN PICK TO MAKE UP FOR IT's INJURY! THE CAVS CAN POUND SAND. i tell u what i will throw in a bag of classic ABA red white and blue basketballs. how about that? 

[makaveli]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.   

you would be a terrible businessman and negotiator. LA pick? BWAHAHAHAHAHA  are u insane? WE ALREADY GAVE THEM THE BROOKLYN PICK TO MAKE UP FOR IT's INJURY! THE CAVS CAN POUND SAND. i tell u what i will throw in a bag of classic ABA red white and blue basketballs. how about that?

yup

[LilRip]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

I don't see it. It's not like the Cavs have a ton of leverage either. They need to trade Kyrie.

[td450]

I say give them Rozier and take back Zizic. Then they have a guard for insurance and it is a little more.

It's obvious from posts like this that a LOT of people are going to be really disappointed with the final outcome of this scenario.  I can already hear Bill Simmons lamenting how the Cavs screwed over the Celtics.

But give credit where credit is due, Danny overplayed his hand.  He waited for all the stars to be off the market before offering a young GM (Koby Altman) a slight overpay for Kyrie.

Once it was clear the Celtics had burned bridges with their two most expendable players the Cavs leveraged IT's hip injury for even MORE assets. 

Now if you're Danny Ainge you're faced with these realities:
1.  There is now 0% chance IT is going to resign in Boston after this. 
2.  If taken back, Crowder is now going to be a full blown malcontent.
3.  If you don't get Kyrie in this trade you face having 0 superstars on the team as soon as next season, with no cap room to sign free agents.
4.  Without Isaiah or Kyrie you've effectively sacrificed the next two seasons.
 
Face it, Ainge got outplayed by a rookie GM from Middlebury.  His only real option is to posture for a while to save face and then give up an asset to make this deal go through.  At this point I'm just really hoping the damage is limited to LA/Sac #1, Smart, or Rozier and not Tatum or Brown.

1. IT was always going to sign with whomever offered him the most money.  That hasn't changed, and if the trade falls through, he'll still resign with Boston if they offer him the most.  And with Bird rights, they can. At most, Ainge cost himself some goodwill next summer that would have let IT come back to him and match the best offer, rather than exceeding it.  But it's not even clear the Celtics would have been afforded that courtesy anyway (and I'm not saying they should have).

2. If Crowder seems like he's going to be a malcontent, he can be moved in a minute.  He's still on one of the most valuable contracts in the league, and the Celtics still have 4 other viable players at his position, including a max free agent and the #3 picks from the prior two drafts. 

3. On the other hand, if the trade falls through they still have a potential superstar with the Nets pick, not to mention the Lakers/SAC pick, not to mention Brown, not to mention IT (see #1) if the Celtics are correct about his health.

4. Again, see #1.

The only problem with this analysis is that Boston almost certainly won't offer him the most money.