Trading for Vucevic (merged rumor threads)

[Cman]

I think both Zach Lowe and Marc Stein mentioned in the past that Portland was a likely destination for Vucevic. If Portland has made their move for a center (for Nurkic), I have to wonder if Boston is the front runner to nab one of Orlando' big men. I know Ibaka has late been the hot rumor, but of the 2, I'd rather be paying Vucevis than Ibaka a year from now.

Only way Vucevic ends up here is as a bench big man.
I am of the opinion that he is a bit of a stiff and very, very overrated by celticsblog members.
Doesn't have any range past 12 feet, can't defend pick and roll or switches and is a stereotypically soft euro big man.
There's a reason Orlando has given up on him.

You are incorrect about his range.  Vucevic has consistently been one of the best jump shooting big men in the league.  True, he struggles in switches on the pick and roll--as do most bigs.  The numbers, however, do indicate that he's an improved defender overall.  As to calling him a "stereotypically soft Euro big man," well, that's just completely meaningless nonsense.

This. He's got good range out to about 18 feet and is an excellent passer from the high post. He'd fit nicely next to Horford while covering Horford's rebounding deficiencies. He's also a good anchor to play small ball around if you stagger he and Horford's minutes.

As for killing our cap room: The Celtics don't have a realistic chance at a max guy this summer. At least not a max guy I'd actually want to pay max money to get (which crosses Ibaka off my list). If the C's really needed cap room, Vucevic would be an easy contract to move this summer if the room was needed for someone.

This is ultimately what it comes down to--what does DA think about (a) the quality of the FA pool this summer and (b) the probability of landing one from that pool.

If (a) or (b) is low, then DA will be more likely to do a trade (either at Feb deadline or closer to draft).

[Evantime34]

I think both Zach Lowe and Marc Stein mentioned in the past that Portland was a likely destination for Vucevic. If Portland has made their move for a center (for Nurkic), I have to wonder if Boston is the front runner to nab one of Orlando' big men. I know Ibaka has late been the hot rumor, but of the 2, I'd rather be paying Vucevis than Ibaka a year from now.

Only way Vucevic ends up here is as a bench big man.
I am of the opinion that he is a bit of a stiff and very, very overrated by celticsblog members.
Doesn't have any range past 12 feet, can't defend pick and roll or switches and is a stereotypically soft euro big man.
There's a reason Orlando has given up on him.

You are incorrect about his range.  Vucevic has consistently been one of the best jump shooting big men in the league.  True, he struggles in switches on the pick and roll--as do most bigs.  The numbers, however, do indicate that he's an improved defender overall.  As to calling him a "stereotypically soft Euro big man," well, that's just completely meaningless nonsense.

This. He's got good range out to about 18 feet and is an excellent passer from the high post. He'd fit nicely next to Horford while covering Horford's rebounding deficiencies. He's also a good anchor to play small ball around if you stagger he and Horford's minutes.

As for killing our cap room: The Celtics don't have a realistic chance at a max guy this summer. At least not a max guy I'd actually want to pay max money to get (which crosses Ibaka off my list). If the C's really needed cap room, Vucevic would be an easy contract to move this summer if the room was needed for someone.

Having range out to 18 feet is not considered good range anymore. With the way the game is currently played the difference between spacing the floor to 18 feet vs 24 feet is the difference between a help defender preventing a drive/running his man off a shot and a path to the basket/wide open jumper.

The game has changed. Zeller has range out to 18 feet and anytime he is in the game the C's have more trouble creating open looks. Houston's wing shooters spot up 2 feet behind the 3 point line to further stretch the defense and it has really made Harden's life easier. The C's offense thrives because 95% of the time everyone on the court has 3 point range, having Vuc, clog the lane or spot up from 18 would hurt their offensive spacing more than you realize. Isaiah has been great this year, but a big reason why he has been able to make the jump is because improved spacing has improved the quality of his looks.

[vjcsmoke]

Just thinking out loud, but I wonder if we could get Aaron Gordon?

Could play the 4 with Horford as a 5, and he is athletic as can be, which means he could handle the perimeter defensive duties.  Not sure how he would handle bigger 4's though, but he has so much potential that the thought of Stevens coaching him is really exciting.

Very athletic and high ceiling.  But he can't shoot and he can't rebound and he doesn't block shots. 

42.9% FG is horrible for a big who mostly shoots near the rim. .4 blocks per game is bad for a big whom you would hope gives help defense and protects the rim.  4.6 rebounds per game is bad even by Celtics big man standards on the current roster.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gordoaa01.html

So why are we trading for him if our main need is a big who can rebound, protect the paint, and oh yeah it would be nice if that guy could hit the 3 in Brad Stevens system?

[CoachBo]

I think both Zach Lowe and Marc Stein mentioned in the past that Portland was a likely destination for Vucevic. If Portland has made their move for a center (for Nurkic), I have to wonder if Boston is the front runner to nab one of Orlando' big men. I know Ibaka has late been the hot rumor, but of the 2, I'd rather be paying Vucevis than Ibaka a year from now.

Only way Vucevic ends up here is as a bench big man.
I am of the opinion that he is a bit of a stiff and very, very overrated by celticsblog members.
Doesn't have any range past 12 feet, can't defend pick and roll or switches and is a stereotypically soft euro big man.
There's a reason Orlando has given up on him.

You are incorrect about his range.  Vucevic has consistently been one of the best jump shooting big men in the league.  True, he struggles in switches on the pick and roll--as do most bigs.  The numbers, however, do indicate that he's an improved defender overall.  As to calling him a "stereotypically soft Euro big man," well, that's just completely meaningless nonsense.

This. He's got good range out to about 18 feet and is an excellent passer from the high post. He'd fit nicely next to Horford while covering Horford's rebounding deficiencies. He's also a good anchor to play small ball around if you stagger he and Horford's minutes.

As for killing our cap room: The Celtics don't have a realistic chance at a max guy this summer. At least not a max guy I'd actually want to pay max money to get (which crosses Ibaka off my list). If the C's really needed cap room, Vucevic would be an easy contract to move this summer if the room was needed for someone.

This x1000.

TP.

[Bobshot]

I must be old school, but I don't dig having 5 "space'' guys out there  to create room to bomb away 3s. If you're lucky, you hit 3s about 33% of the time (You better, to make it worth your while), which means you should have somebody near the basket who can give you a 2nd opportunity. Houston has Capela. The Celtics have nobody of that ilk. Russell made them unbeatable controlling the boards while a bunch of 20 pt scorers were bombing from the outside (plus all those easy transition layups Russell generated by constantly being in rebound position). If Ainge/Stevens don't think that, I don't see how the Celtics can be a complete team.

[BitterJim]

I must be old school, but I don't dig having 5 "space'' guys out there  to create room to bomb away 3s. If you're lucky, you hit 3s about 33% of the time (You better, to make it worth your while), which means you should have somebody near the basket who can give you a 2nd opportunity. Houston has Capela. The Celtics have nobody of that ilk. Russell made them unbeatable controlling the boards while a bunch of 20 pt scorers were bombing from the outside (plus all those easy transition layups Russell generated by constantly being in rebound position). If Ainge/Stevens don't think that, I don't see how the Celtics can be a complete team.

The Celtics have hit 36.8% of their 3s this year.  33% isn't an "if you're lucky" situation, it's a bad shooting night

[Darío SpanishFan]

As for killing our cap room: The Celtics don't have a realistic chance at a max guy this summer.

This is not true.

[A Future of Stevens]

As for killing our cap room: The Celtics don't have a realistic chance at a max guy this summer.

This is not true.

I think it is more true than not. Players like Hayward and Griffin arent likely to change teams. If we tie up max money It has to be a guy of that caliber.

[LGC88]

Having range out to 18 feet is not considered good range anymore. With the way the game is currently played the difference between spacing the floor to 18 feet vs 24 feet is the difference between a help defender preventing a drive/running his man off a shot and a path to the basket/wide open jumper.

The game has changed. Zeller has range out to 18 feet and anytime he is in the game the C's have more trouble creating open looks. Houston's wing shooters spot up 2 feet behind the 3 point line to further stretch the defense and it has really made Harden's life easier. The C's offense thrives because 95% of the time everyone on the court has 3 point range, having Vuc, clog the lane or spot up from 18 would hurt their offensive spacing more than you realize. Isaiah has been great this year, but a big reason why he has been able to make the jump is because improved spacing has improved the quality of his looks.

TP
Unfortunately this is not in everyone's head. Some think it's a trend, it's NOT. It is simply a more efficient way to score.

[PAOBoston]

As for killing our cap room: The Celtics don't have a realistic chance at a max guy this summer.

This is not true.

I think it is more true than not. Players like Hayward and Griffin arent likely to change teams. If we tie up max money It has to be a guy of that caliber.

That's what they said last year and the C's almost signed the 2nd best FA out there and had a legit chance at the best one. So many things can change from now until FA.

[Smitty77]

I think both Zach Lowe and Marc Stein mentioned in the past that Portland was a likely destination for Vucevic. If Portland has made their move for a center (for Nurkic), I have to wonder if Boston is the front runner to nab one of Orlando' big men. I know Ibaka has late been the hot rumor, but of the 2, I'd rather be paying Vucevis than Ibaka a year from now.

Only way Vucevic ends up here is as a bench big man.
I am of the opinion that he is a bit of a stiff and very, very overrated by celticsblog members.
Doesn't have any range past 12 feet, can't defend pick and roll or switches and is a stereotypically soft euro big man.
There's a reason Orlando has given up on him.

You are incorrect about his range.  Vucevic has consistently been one of the best jump shooting big men in the league.  True, he struggles in switches on the pick and roll--as do most bigs.  The numbers, however, do indicate that he's an improved defender overall.  As to calling him a "stereotypically soft Euro big man," well, that's just completely meaningless nonsense.

He is indeed an improved defender and is currently ranked #16 in defensive RPM!!

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/9

Smitty77

[Quetzalcoatl]

I've watched Orlando probably like 6 times in the last two years and the thing is we blow the Magic out every time we play them.  He still plays efficiently in those games, but it's hard to take anyone on that team seriously when the final score is like 130-90. 

When I have watched Orlando play other teams, he looks a lot better.  I am pretty conflicted though, if he was shooting better than .280 3P% I would think this would be a lot more attractive.  If he shot .333% I think this would have already happened.

[Big333223]

As for killing our cap room: The Celtics don't have a realistic chance at a max guy this summer.

This is not true.

I think it is more true than not. Players like Hayward and Griffin arent likely to change teams. If we tie up max money It has to be a guy of that caliber.

That's what they said last year and the C's almost signed the 2nd best FA out there and had a legit chance at the best one. So many things can change from now until FA.

1. I don't think anyone reputable said that last year. I certainly didn't.

2. Who is the max free agent next season that the C's have a reasonable chance of getting? Because Hayward likes playing for Utah and they're going to be playoff team. Griffin loves LA. Durant will be up again but he seems to love GS. Lowry wouldn't make sense on the C's and is likely staying put anyway. So who's your guy?

[trickybilly]

As for killing our cap room: The Celtics don't have a realistic chance at a max guy this summer.

This is not true.

I think it is more true than not. Players like Hayward and Griffin arent likely to change teams. If we tie up max money It has to be a guy of that caliber.

That's what they said last year and the C's almost signed the 2nd best FA out there and had a legit chance at the best one. So many things can change from now until FA.

1. I don't think anyone reputable said that last year. I certainly didn't.

2. Who is the max free agent next season that the C's have a reasonable chance of getting? Because Hayward likes playing for Utah and they're going to be playoff team. Griffin loves LA. Durant will be up again but he seems to love GS. Lowry wouldn't make sense on the C's and is likely staying put anyway. So who's your guy?

1) LOL! (Seriously though pretty much every single media outlet said that..)

2) Not as sure as you that Griffin is married to LA as you think..

Also, Ibaka may move on if things go south in the north.

Nerlens is restricted - could overpay him.

Taj Gibson is unrestricted and might be had for a reasonable price given Chicagos struggles..

[Big333223]

As for killing our cap room: The Celtics don't have a realistic chance at a max guy this summer.

This is not true.

I think it is more true than not. Players like Hayward and Griffin arent likely to change teams. If we tie up max money It has to be a guy of that caliber.

That's what they said last year and the C's almost signed the 2nd best FA out there and had a legit chance at the best one. So many things can change from now until FA.

1. I don't think anyone reputable said that last year. I certainly didn't.

2. Who is the max free agent next season that the C's have a reasonable chance of getting? Because Hayward likes playing for Utah and they're going to be playoff team. Griffin loves LA. Durant will be up again but he seems to love GS. Lowry wouldn't make sense on the C's and is likely staying put anyway. So who's your guy?

1) LOL! (Seriously though pretty much every single media outlet said that..)

2) Not as sure as you that Griffin is married to LA as you think..

Also, Ibaka may move on if things go south in the north.

Nerlens is restricted - could overpay him.

Taj Gibson is unrestricted and might be had for a reasonable price given Chicagos struggles..

1. That's not my memory of it but if you can produce a bunch of old articles, I'll believe you.

(EDIT: I should clarify, I do remember people claiming the Celtics couldn't land a big free agent because the Celtics have never done that, but that argument never held water and that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about the specific situations of the specific max-level free agents coming this summer.)

2. In what universe is Nerlens Noel or Taj Gibson a max free agent?!

As for Ibaka, I do not want to pay that guy $120 million for 4 years. But I already said this, it was just cut out of the quote:

As for killing our cap room: The Celtics don't have a realistic chance at a max guy this summer. At least not a max guy I'd actually want to pay max money to get (which crosses Ibaka off my list).