Trading for Vucevic (merged rumor threads)

[hodgy03038]

19 pts 6 reb 2 ast 1 stl in 16 minutes end of 1st half

[Smitty77]

Vucevic does not play defense. If he comes in, he's coming as as the first big man off the bench.

Horford and Vucevic on D would be a flaming dumpster of a plan.

His contract is reasonable for a very solid back up big man but it takes up too much cap room for the return on investment.


The most likely reason for this rumor is that Ainge and his boys have fed this crap to Blakeley to show whoever else we are potentially dealing with that we have options.

I would honestly rather bring over Zizic because Vucevic provides negative net defensive ability when we are desperate for some defensive toughness in the paint.

I read on RealGM that perhaps Ainge sees Vucevic as a solid trade piece with that contract so acquiring him for 6 months and putting him in our system will make him a far more valuable 12 million in potential trades than Amir would be.

eg on draft night the pick falls to #3 and the Bulls give up Butler. Some teams would prefer Vucevic rather than Amir's expiring.

The problem with this is that I'm pretty sure most teams would prefer Amir's expiring vs Vucevic's 12 million for 2 more years unless they need to hit the salary floor and he would help as a tank commander as a starting center that plays zero defense and helps you lose lots of games while scoring 15ppg and 10rebs per game in heavy minutes.

Chambers,

Please explain to me how that combining a perimeter oriented big in Horford who is an average or slightly below average rebounder with an interior oriented big who is clearly an ABOVE average rebounder "would be a flaming dumpster of a plan?"

Here are V's stats for the last five seasons and his PER's:

2012-2013:  13 points and 12 rebounds in 33 minutes (17.90 PER)
2013-2014:  14 points and 11 rebounds in 32 minutes (18.80 PER)
2014-2015:  19 points and 11 rebounds in 34 minutes (21.60 PER)
2015-2016:  18 points and 9 rebounds in 33 minutes (21.20 PER)
2016-2017:  14 points and 10 rebounds in 28 minutes (18.70 PER)

And, did I mention that this kid is ONLY 26?

Sounds like adding him "would be a flaming dumpster of a plan:-))))))))))))))"

Smitty77

Not directed at me of course, but I know some circles here have pointed out that the celtics struggle when Horford is stuck defending a perimeter oriented big. He is better as a rim protector.

Enter vucevic. While he would almost certainly solve our rebounding issue, he himself is awful at defense. In particular he is abhorrent at guarding the perimeter. This would force us to move Horford to the 4, increasing the frequency of situations where he has to guard the perimeter.

Im on team bring him in. He cant be worse than Amir, and im tired of the rebounding problems.

Your point about perimeter D is well-taken and VERY valid!!  That is where having someone like Jaylen and Avery and Marcus being willing to switch and help on the perimeter.  Marcus is strong enough to cover most on the low post temporarily and eventually Jaylen will have the strength to do so.  Also, Avery does a remarkably decent job covering Lebron on the perimeter.

Your point about V being "awful at defense" is simply NOT really true.  He ranks 26th out of 70 centers in defensive RPM this year!!!

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/9

Smitty77

[Smitty77]

I just want to point out that Vucevic's DRPM and his DRTG per BBR are both very good this season.

I haven't had a chance to watch him play a ton this season, but from what I've seen the eye test backs up that he is an improved defensive player.  He's still relatively slow footed, but his awareness seems much better and he works to get to the right spots.  He also uses his bulk well to disrupt drivers without excessive fouling.  As we know, he is a superb defensive rebounder as well.

The narrative that he is a terrible defender may need to be re-examined.

Thanks Celtics 18.  I didn't read this prior to posting!!!  Sorry about that.

Smitty77

[Smitty77]

Vucevic does not play defense. If he comes in, he's coming as as the first big man off the bench.

Horford and Vucevic on D would be a flaming dumpster of a plan.

His contract is reasonable for a very solid back up big man but it takes up too much cap room for the return on investment.


The most likely reason for this rumor is that Ainge and his boys have fed this crap to Blakeley to show whoever else we are potentially dealing with that we have options.

I would honestly rather bring over Zizic because Vucevic provides negative net defensive ability when we are desperate for some defensive toughness in the paint.

I read on RealGM that perhaps Ainge sees Vucevic as a solid trade piece with that contract so acquiring him for 6 months and putting him in our system will make him a far more valuable 12 million in potential trades than Amir would be.

eg on draft night the pick falls to #3 and the Bulls give up Butler. Some teams would prefer Vucevic rather than Amir's expiring.

The problem with this is that I'm pretty sure most teams would prefer Amir's expiring vs Vucevic's 12 million for 2 more years unless they need to hit the salary floor and he would help as a tank commander as a starting center that plays zero defense and helps you lose lots of games while scoring 15ppg and 10rebs per game in heavy minutes.

Chambers,

Please explain to me how that combining a perimeter oriented big in Horford who is an average or slightly below average rebounder with an interior oriented big who is clearly an ABOVE average rebounder "would be a flaming dumpster of a plan?"

Here are V's stats for the last five seasons and his PER's:

2012-2013:  13 points and 12 rebounds in 33 minutes (17.90 PER)
2013-2014:  14 points and 11 rebounds in 32 minutes (18.80 PER)
2014-2015:  19 points and 11 rebounds in 34 minutes (21.60 PER)
2015-2016:  18 points and 9 rebounds in 33 minutes (21.20 PER)
2016-2017:  14 points and 10 rebounds in 28 minutes (18.70 PER)

And, did I mention that this kid is ONLY 26?

Sounds like adding him "would be a flaming dumpster of a plan:-))))))))))))))"

Smitty77

They would be the worst defensive big man duo in the NBA and teams would torch us on the perimeter and in the pick and roll.

A flaming dumpster of a defensive strategy.

From my other post:

That is where having someone like Jaylen and Avery and Marcus being willing to switch and help on the perimeter.  Marcus is strong enough to cover most on the low post temporarily and eventually Jaylen will have the strength to do so.  Also, Avery does a remarkably decent job covering Lebron on the perimeter.

Smitty77

[Real World]

I think the Celtics should make a play for Vucevic if the price is right.  Everyone is concerned with cap space, but the Celtics can make moves to shed the difference either at the deadline, or in the offseason (Avery Bradley & Olnyk for example).

The cost for him is the question.  I wouldn't trade either Brooklyn pick, or JB for him.  I don't think I'd move Smart either.   I highly doubt Orlando is taking Zeller, waiver wire fodder, and a pair of useless 2nds.  I'd love it if they would, but that's insanity.    If the price is somewhere inside, or a combo of: Bradley, some cap fillers, a Memphis/Clipp/C's 1st, the rights to Yabu (I prefer to keep Zizic), etc. then it's totally worth exploring. 

My guess is Bradley, Yabu and a 1st is on the high end, and Zeller + a 1st is on the low end. Other icing not withstanding.  Orlando is not looking to shed salary for a $12ish million dollar double double big man in his 20s.  Not in an era where Steve Adams gets $100 million over 4 years.   Orlando wants real pieces and picks in return. 

Another thing to consider in any potential Celtics trade, is that they will most likely have to move a guard.  Especially if they're keeping the Brooklyn pick.   What's Bradley going to ask for after next season?  Do you really want to pay him $20-25 million per?   I think the Celtics will look to move him now.  Especially since they seem to be doing well enough without him. 

[Big333223]

I think both Zach Lowe and Marc Stein mentioned in the past that Portland was a likely destination for Vucevic. If Portland has made their move for a center (for Nurkic), I have to wonder if Boston is the front runner to nab one of Orlando' big men. I know Ibaka has late been the hot rumor, but of the 2, I'd rather be paying Vucevis than Ibaka a year from now.

[saltlover]

I think both Zach Lowe and Marc Stein mentioned in the past that Portland was a likely destination for Vucevic. If Portland has made their move for a center (for Nurkic), I have to wonder if Boston is the front runner to nab one of Orlando' big men. I know Ibaka has late been the hot rumor, but of the 2, I'd rather be paying Vucevis than Ibaka a year from now.

I'd rather be paying neither a year from now, which is why Ibaka is my choice. I also think a pure PF fits better next to Horford than a pure center.

[chambers]

I think both Zach Lowe and Marc Stein mentioned in the past that Portland was a likely destination for Vucevic. If Portland has made their move for a center (for Nurkic), I have to wonder if Boston is the front runner to nab one of Orlando' big men. I know Ibaka has late been the hot rumor, but of the 2, I'd rather be paying Vucevis than Ibaka a year from now.

Only way Vucevic ends up here is as a bench big man.
I am of the opinion that he is a bit of a stiff and very, very overrated by celticsblog members.
Doesn't have any range past 12 feet, can't defend pick and roll or switches and is a stereotypically soft euro big man.
There's a reason Orlando has given up on him.

[Darío SpanishFan]

I think both Zach Lowe and Marc Stein mentioned in the past that Portland was a likely destination for Vucevic. If Portland has made their move for a center (for Nurkic), I have to wonder if Boston is the front runner to nab one of Orlando' big men. I know Ibaka has late been the hot rumor, but of the 2, I'd rather be paying Vucevis than Ibaka a year from now.

Getting Vucevic means going out of the race for the best free agents next summer. And it is the last in a good time that we will be able to pay big money to them.

It wouldn't be a wise move and I'm convinced it's not an option.

[PaulAllen]

I think both Zach Lowe and Marc Stein mentioned in the past that Portland was a likely destination for Vucevic. If Portland has made their move for a center (for Nurkic), I have to wonder if Boston is the front runner to nab one of Orlando' big men. I know Ibaka has late been the hot rumor, but of the 2, I'd rather be paying Vucevis than Ibaka a year from now.

Getting Vucevic means going out of the race for the best free agents next summer. And it is the last in a good time that we will be able to pay big money to them.

It wouldn't be a wise move and I'm convinced it's not an option.

How so ? He makes 12 mil which is a bargain ... Cutting ties with Johnson would cancel each other out ... zeller has another 8mil and jonas 5mil

[BitterJim]

I think both Zach Lowe and Marc Stein mentioned in the past that Portland was a likely destination for Vucevic. If Portland has made their move for a center (for Nurkic), I have to wonder if Boston is the front runner to nab one of Orlando' big men. I know Ibaka has late been the hot rumor, but of the 2, I'd rather be paying Vucevis than Ibaka a year from now.

Getting Vucevic means going out of the race for the best free agents next summer. And it is the last in a good time that we will be able to pay big money to them.

It wouldn't be a wise move and I'm convinced it's not an option.

How so ? He makes 12 mil which is a bargain ... Cutting ties with Johnson would cancel each other out ... zeller has another 8mil and jonas 5mil

That's not how it works. We have enough room for a max FA if we let Zeller go and renounce the rights to Kelly, Amir, and Jerebko. Taking on any salary beyond this season without sending out equal salary from beyond this season (so not Amir, Zeller, or Jerebko) would prevent us from signing a max FA

Sending them Amir doesn't cancel anything out because his money comes off the books this summer

[saltlover]

I think both Zach Lowe and Marc Stein mentioned in the past that Portland was a likely destination for Vucevic. If Portland has made their move for a center (for Nurkic), I have to wonder if Boston is the front runner to nab one of Orlando' big men. I know Ibaka has late been the hot rumor, but of the 2, I'd rather be paying Vucevis than Ibaka a year from now.

Getting Vucevic means going out of the race for the best free agents next summer. And it is the last in a good time that we will be able to pay big money to them.

It wouldn't be a wise move and I'm convinced it's not an option.

How so ? He makes 12 mil which is a bargain ... Cutting ties with Johnson would cancel each other out ... zeller has another 8mil and jonas 5mil

When people talk about adding a max free agent, all three of those players are already assumed to be out the door.  Adding $12 million in salary obliterates any ability for a top free agent.

[Darío SpanishFan]

Thanks for beating me to the explanation, Salt and Bitter. You are rewarded 

As they said, we only can grab a big fish next summer assuming all of them expiring are let go (Amir, JJ, Zeller). And this would make Kelly's contract situation in the air.

[Celtics18]

I think both Zach Lowe and Marc Stein mentioned in the past that Portland was a likely destination for Vucevic. If Portland has made their move for a center (for Nurkic), I have to wonder if Boston is the front runner to nab one of Orlando' big men. I know Ibaka has late been the hot rumor, but of the 2, I'd rather be paying Vucevis than Ibaka a year from now.

Only way Vucevic ends up here is as a bench big man.
I am of the opinion that he is a bit of a stiff and very, very overrated by celticsblog members.
Doesn't have any range past 12 feet, can't defend pick and roll or switches and is a stereotypically soft euro big man.
There's a reason Orlando has given up on him.

You are incorrect about his range.  Vucevic has consistently been one of the best jump shooting big men in the league.  True, he struggles in switches on the pick and roll--as do most bigs.  The numbers, however, do indicate that he's an improved defender overall.  As to calling him a "stereotypically soft Euro big man," well, that's just completely meaningless nonsense.

[Big333223]

I think both Zach Lowe and Marc Stein mentioned in the past that Portland was a likely destination for Vucevic. If Portland has made their move for a center (for Nurkic), I have to wonder if Boston is the front runner to nab one of Orlando' big men. I know Ibaka has late been the hot rumor, but of the 2, I'd rather be paying Vucevis than Ibaka a year from now.

Only way Vucevic ends up here is as a bench big man.
I am of the opinion that he is a bit of a stiff and very, very overrated by celticsblog members.
Doesn't have any range past 12 feet, can't defend pick and roll or switches and is a stereotypically soft euro big man.
There's a reason Orlando has given up on him.

You are incorrect about his range.  Vucevic has consistently been one of the best jump shooting big men in the league.  True, he struggles in switches on the pick and roll--as do most bigs.  The numbers, however, do indicate that he's an improved defender overall.  As to calling him a "stereotypically soft Euro big man," well, that's just completely meaningless nonsense.

This. He's got good range out to about 18 feet and is an excellent passer from the high post. He'd fit nicely next to Horford while covering Horford's rebounding deficiencies. He's also a good anchor to play small ball around if you stagger he and Horford's minutes.

As for killing our cap room: The Celtics don't have a realistic chance at a max guy this summer. At least not a max guy I'd actually want to pay max money to get (which crosses Ibaka off my list). If the C's really needed cap room, Vucevic would be an easy contract to move this summer if the room was needed for someone.