Isaiah Thomas is averaging 26.7 points and 6 assists a game...is he a top 8 PG?

[chambers]

IT is really starting to make me think about bringing out the brinks truck for the little guy in the form of a max contract.

26.7 points and 6 assists a game.
Some defensive liabilities but still holding is own as a solid defender and his late game domination is what superstars are made of.

How much better can he get? Is he top 8? PG is a stacked position, so If not, how close is he to being top 5 for example?

Westbrook
Curry
Lilliard
CP3
John Wall
Kyrie
Lowry
Conley
Kemba Walker

Looking at these guys he's starting to climb IMO. I'd put him in the top 6 or 7 I think.
He's better overall than John Wall to me. More composed. CP3 is great, but he's averaging 17 points and 9 assists still a better overall
Kyrie is great, so is Lowry, but IT is almost at their level and chasing hard IMO.

Thoughts?

[GRADYCOLNON]

IT is certainly a top 8 point guard in this league.  I would be comfortable saying he is number six overall.  Westbrook, CP3, Curry, and Irving are in a higher echelon because of numbers and team success.  I think that IT fits nicely between Lillard and Wall with Lowry following behind.  He doesn't get the same respect because of his size and that he plays for the Celtics.  (Wall has better PG numbers but his turnovers are way too high and he doesn't lead his team effectively)

[celticsclay]

I know there was a thread on this but I think the star is really coming off of lillard this year. If that team can't even get in the neighborhood of .500 he is not the star he has been made out to be. Mcollum, crabbe, ET, Harkless are not amazing but they are not complete garbage either.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Top tier is probably Paul-Westbrook-Curry in no particular order.

Second Tier is probably Lillard-Thomas-Wall-Lowry-Kyrie in no particular order.

Absolutely he is. Lillard is having his best year by far, but his team is losing, so there is a discount to his play there. Wall's team is struggling, although the talent is obvious. Kyrie is a championship winner, and seems to be cashing it in a bit until the playoffs. Lowry is awesome.

I have him 4-5, but what I love about IT is that he doesn't back down from the top guys. He puts just as much pressure on Paul-Curry-Westbrook-Lowry as they put on him, if not more.

[nickagneta]

Is Harden now considered a PG, because if he is, he belongs above Thomas. My list from best to worst on the list:

Curry
Westbrook
Harden
Paul
Wall
Kyrie
Lowry
Thomas
Lillard

So yes, Thomas is top 8

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I know there was a thread on this but I think the star is really coming off of lillard this year. If that team can't even get in the neighborhood of .500 he is not the star he has been made out to be. Mcollum, crabbe, ET, Harkless are not amazing but they are not complete garbage either.

Not sure I agree with that reasoning. Paul Pierce struggled before the big 3 era with young guys and role players. Paul George is struggling this year, along with Wall. Is Davis a star? Cousins? Drummond? Barnes? Whiteside?

Admittedly, some of those guys are the next tier down of star, but my point is that, while team wins matter in valuing a guy, I think a guy can still be a star without team wins. It's more than that.

[jbpats]

I think you have to put Conley ahead of IT, but its a fine line. Needless to say after the top tier their is definitely a debate who should come next.. Thomas is definitely in the conversation.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I think you have to put Conley ahead of IT, but its a fine line. Needless to say after the top tier their is definitely a debate who should come next.. Thomas is definitely in the conversation.

Why do you have to? I disagree, but I'd like to hear your reasoning for why.

Never averaged over 17.9 ppg. Never averaged over 6.5 apg.

Thomas is averaging more points, assists, and less turnovers than Conley. Conley is a good defender, but not an elite one. He is a good player, but not a guy who can win a game for you.

[jbpats]

I think you have to put Conley ahead of IT, but its a fine line. Needless to say after the top tier their is definitely a debate who should come next.. Thomas is definitely in the conversation.

Why do you have to? I disagree, but I'd like to hear your reasoning for why.

He is a lock down defender and in my opinion a much better facilitator which is crucial in a PG role, Thomas is a better scorer but as far as superiority over Conley that's where it ends. Again debatable and just my opinion.
With the above being said i'd take Thomas over Conley 100 times out of 100 when comparing contracts.. but apples to apples (say they both had equivalent contracts) i'd take Conley over Thomas.

[jambr380]

After Steph, Westbrook, and Harden, it becomes very subjective. I guess you give the nod to Paul for his sustained success and Kyrie for winning last year's championship, but I don't know why players like Lillard, Wall, and [apparently] Conley are automatically considered better than IT. If you just take this season and last (seasons where IT has been the starter for the Cs), it's hard to argue against IT's individual success along with the Cs' team success.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I think you have to put Conley ahead of IT, but its a fine line. Needless to say after the top tier their is definitely a debate who should come next.. Thomas is definitely in the conversation.

Why do you have to? I disagree, but I'd like to hear your reasoning for why.

He is a lock down defender and in my opinion a much better facilitator which is crucial in a PG role, Thomas is a better scorer but as far as superiority over Conley that's where it ends. Again debatable and just my opinion.
With the above being said i'd take Thomas over Conley 100 times out of 100 when comparing contracts.. but apples to apples (say they both had equivalent contracts) i'd take Conley over Thomas.

Fair enough. I don't hate you for your opinion, but I disagree.

Conley's "facilitator" role is over-stated in my opinion. The guy runs the offense, but that doesn't mean he stirs the offense. There is a difference between a guy who sets up an offense, and a guy who can get his team good baskets. I don't think Conley does that as well as Thomas.

His defense is good, but again, I think it's overstated. Players only shoot 1.5% worse against him this year, but actually shot better against him last year by 1.6%. Comparatively, players shot .8% worse than their average against Thomas last year and 1.8% worse this year.

I'm not saying Thomas is a better defender, but I am saying that the stats don't bear out that Conley is a lock-down guy.

[jbpats]

After Steph, Westbrook, and Harden, it becomes very subjective. I guess you give the nod to Paul for his sustained success and Kyrie for winning last year's championship, but I don't know why players like Lillard, Wall, and [apparently] Conley are automatically considered better than IT. If you just take this season and last (seasons where IT has been the starter for the Cs), it's hard to argue against IT's individual success along with the Cs' team success.

I think we need to consider regular season success vs. playoff success also. I think everyone can agree that Thomas's value come playoff time decreases significantly.
Look at the teams that went to at least the second round last year
Cleveland - Irving
Atlanta - Teague (not better than Thomas but certainly was in the playoffs)
Washington - Wall
Chicago - DRose
GSW- Curry
Memphis - Conley
Clippers - CP3
Houston - Harden

I think everyone on that list other than Teague and DRose are better than Thomas.. even though Rose brought it in the playoffs last year.

[jambr380]

After Steph, Westbrook, and Harden, it becomes very subjective. I guess you give the nod to Paul for his sustained success and Kyrie for winning last year's championship, but I don't know why players like Lillard, Wall, and [apparently] Conley are automatically considered better than IT. If you just take this season and last (seasons where IT has been the starter for the Cs), it's hard to argue against IT's individual success along with the Cs' team success.

I think we need to consider regular season success vs. playoff success also. I think everyone can agree that Thomas's value come playoff time decreases significantly.
Look at the teams that went to at least the second round last year
Cleveland - Irving
Atlanta - Teague (not better than Thomas but certainly was in the playoffs)
Washington - Wall
Chicago - DRose
GSW- Curry
Memphis - Conley
Clippers - CP3
Houston - Harden

I think everyone on that list other than Teague and DRose are better than Thomas.. even though Rose brought it in the playoffs last year.

The Bulls and Wizards didn't even make the playoffs last year (they were 9th and 10th in the conference), but you forgot Westbrook and Lillard on your list (who had some major luck with Clippers injuries). Maybe you used 2014-15 standings(?)

Overall, though, I agree that Curry, Westbrook, Harden are definitely better with CP3 and Irving being a little better. Conley I would have to drop into the 'a little worse' category.

[CelticGuardian]

People will always disrespect IT, and I love it. It's drives that man mad, and he's going to keep putting up 44 on the Conleys, be the true Alpha against the Kyries, and actually win games over the Walls.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

People will always disrespect IT, and I love it. It's drives that man mad, and he's going to keep putting up 44 on the Conleys, be the true Alpha against the Kyries, and actually win games over the Walls.

This is true. He mostly outperforms these guys in head-to-head matchups. TP to you.