Anyone regret not taking Jamal Murray yet?

[LarBrd33]

Discussions based on 5 games? In November of rookie seasons?

The OP will do this all season. Wait for the thread any time another rookie has a nice 5 game stretch.

most people here only start threads about Philly.  I'm just trying to mix it up. 

[GratefulCs]

Discussions based on 5 games? In November of rookie seasons?

The OP will do this all season. Wait for the thread any time another rookie has a nice 5 game stretch.

most people here only start threads about Philly.  I'm just trying to mix it up.

it is a sixers blog, after all

[PhoSita]

I'm not surprised Murray is finding his shot. Always looked like a natural scorer to me.

Jaylen is going to take some more time to develop. It's fair to wonder how he'd look on a team like Denver though. Much more room for a rookie to do stuff.

Im not sure how good Murray is ever gonna be on defense, though, and that's an area where jaylen has shown potential even if he has a long ways to go mentally.

[Moranis]

Funny how you forgot to mention that Jaylen has played an average of 5 minutes during the last five games whereas Jamal Murray has played an average of 27,2 minutes

In general, I don't see the point of discussing who is better based on a five game stint in the month of November. Let's make the comparison after some years. Jaylen could easily become a better shooter 3 years from now provided that he keeps working on his shot.

That sort of proves the point though.  There are plenty more than 5 minutes for Jaylen to get, but he can't earn them (and he played like crap when Crowder was injured).  Murray is earning minutes in a crowded backcourt, though it does help that Harris and Barton have both missed time, but Murray is playing well and will likely keep getting minutes if he continues this play.  Sometimes you need an injury to someone in front of you to get playing time, but whether you keep it is governed by how you play in that opportunity.  Brown failed in his and Murray is thus far succeeding in his.

Moranis. I know you get this. The nuggets are clearly rebuilding. It does not hurt them to lose games by giving Murray minutes he may not have earned. Every game matters for the Celtics in terms of playoff seeding and possible homecourt in playoffs. Brown will have a much shorter leash because of that. We are smarter fans than to act like we don't understand this.

Sure, but losing minutes to Jerekbo and Smart (as a SF) isn't a good look for Brown.  And Denver is a game and a half out of the playoffs.  They aren't the Sixers. 

[OhioGreen]

The simple thing about rookies is, the ones that can shoot and average almost a point per minute consistently are gonna play..... alot, whether they play good D or not.  If the offense isn't there, you'd better just be overflowing with D and intangibles (ie, a Marcus Smart) to see the court much.  Right now Murray fits the first category, and Jaylen doesn't fit the second.  The ONLY way young guys get comfortable and confident is with MINUTES---lots of them!  Murray got his chance cause of all the backcourt injuries the Nuggets have had, and their lack of options at those positions.  Jaylen won't get the opportunity this year because BS will always shift veterans around to fill the SF position, leaving Jaylen essentially left out.  So I'm not looking for basically anything from JB this year except getting his feet wet, and then next year almost starting from scratch again!  It's what happens when you try to win and rebuild at the same time.

[saltlover]

Funny how you forgot to mention that Jaylen has played an average of 5 minutes during the last five games whereas Jamal Murray has played an average of 27,2 minutes

In general, I don't see the point of discussing who is better based on a five game stint in the month of November. Let's make the comparison after some years. Jaylen could easily become a better shooter 3 years from now provided that he keeps working on his shot.

That sort of proves the point though.  There are plenty more than 5 minutes for Jaylen to get, but he can't earn them (and he played like crap when Crowder was injured).  Murray is earning minutes in a crowded backcourt, though it does help that Harris and Barton have both missed time, but Murray is playing well and will likely keep getting minutes if he continues this play.  Sometimes you need an injury to someone in front of you to get playing time, but whether you keep it is governed by how you play in that opportunity.  Brown failed in his and Murray is thus far succeeding in his.

Moranis. I know you get this. The nuggets are clearly rebuilding. It does not hurt them to lose games by giving Murray minutes he may not have earned. Every game matters for the Celtics in terms of playoff seeding and possible homecourt in playoffs. Brown will have a much shorter leash because of that. We are smarter fans than to act like we don't understand this.

Sure, but losing minutes to Jerekbo and Smart (as a SF) isn't a good look for Brown.  And Denver is a game and a half out of the playoffs.  They aren't the Sixers.

Expectations are different.  It's like in Smart's rookie year -- the Celtics weren't trying to be the Sixers, so Smart could get time.  But they also didn't have aspirations of a sustained playoff run.  If Denver thought they could get homecourt advantage for 1-2 rounds in the playoffs, it would be the same thing.

[BitterJim]

The simple thing about rookies is, the ones that can shoot and average almost a point per minute consistently are gonna play..... alot, whether they play good D or not.  If the offense isn't there, you'd better just be overflowing with D and intangibles (ie, a Marcus Smart) to see the court much.  Right now Murray fits the first category, and Jaylen doesn't fit the second.  The ONLY way young guys get comfortable and confident is with MINUTES---lots of them!  Murray got his chance cause of all the backcourt injuries the Nuggets have had, and their lack of options at those positions.  Jaylen won't get the opportunity this year because BS will always shift veterans around to fill the SF position, leaving Jaylen essentially left out.  So I'm not looking for basically anything from JB this year except getting his feet wet, and then next year almost starting from scratch again!  It's what happens when you try to win and rebuild at the same time.

Rozier looked very comfortable in the playoffs last year despite playing only 311 minutes during the regular season (a mark that Brown has almost reached already).  Clearly you can get comfortable without playing big minutes.

It's nothing like starting from scratch again.  Just like Rozier wasn't "starting from scratch again" this year; even without getting force-fed minutes his understanding of the game increased and he improved on his weaknesses.  I'd expect a similar jump from Brown next year

[celticsclay]

Funny how you forgot to mention that Jaylen has played an average of 5 minutes during the last five games whereas Jamal Murray has played an average of 27,2 minutes

In general, I don't see the point of discussing who is better based on a five game stint in the month of November. Let's make the comparison after some years. Jaylen could easily become a better shooter 3 years from now provided that he keeps working on his shot.

That sort of proves the point though.  There are plenty more than 5 minutes for Jaylen to get, but he can't earn them (and he played like crap when Crowder was injured).  Murray is earning minutes in a crowded backcourt, though it does help that Harris and Barton have both missed time, but Murray is playing well and will likely keep getting minutes if he continues this play.  Sometimes you need an injury to someone in front of you to get playing time, but whether you keep it is governed by how you play in that opportunity.  Brown failed in his and Murray is thus far succeeding in his.

Moranis. I know you get this. The nuggets are clearly rebuilding. It does not hurt them to lose games by giving Murray minutes he may not have earned. Every game matters for the Celtics in terms of playoff seeding and possible homecourt in playoffs. Brown will have a much shorter leash because of that. We are smarter fans than to act like we don't understand this.

Sure, but losing minutes to Jerekbo and Smart (as a SF) isn't a good look for Brown.  And Denver is a game and a half out of the playoffs.  They aren't the Sixers.

Expectations are different.  It's like in Smart's rookie year -- the Celtics weren't trying to be the Sixers, so Smart could get time.  But they also didn't have aspirations of a sustained playoff run.  If Denver thought they could get homecourt advantage for 1-2 rounds in the playoffs, it would be the same thing.

Exactly. Not really a hard point here. The nuggets are built around Jokic, Nurcik, mudiay, Harris, Barton and Murray. If that teams wins some games against the other 6 bad teams in the west,great otherwise another young player. They will certainly move chandler, fairied and galo for the right package as soon as they are able to get one. Teams probably want to see those guys be healthy until the trade deadline. These threads are so bizarre. Brown was the only rookie going to a near 50 win team in the high lottery. Are we complain about a pretty obvious situation and make silly comparisons all year?

[moiso]

That doesn't mean that Brown won't be a bust while Murray becomes a quality rotation guy. I'll give these guys some time. Remember how many here regretted not keeping Marshon Brooks when he had a strong rookie season? He's in China now.

MarShon Brooks was not a good player in his rookie season.  People who think he was shouldn't be listened to.

Reminded me of Gerald Green in Jersey and Phoenix.

[LooseCannon]

That doesn't mean that Brown won't be a bust while Murray becomes a quality rotation guy. I'll give these guys some time. Remember how many here regretted not keeping Marshon Brooks when he had a strong rookie season? He's in China now.

MarShon Brooks was not a good player in his rookie season.  People who think he was shouldn't be listened to.

Reminded me of Gerald Green in Jersey and Phoenix.

Gerald Green had one decent season in Phoenix and was otherwise an adequate bench player at best and often not even that good.  He's somewhat useful if he can make 40% of his threes and trash if he is making more like 34%.  He'll fool people who think that an athletic player who can score double digit points per game off the bench must be a good player.

[tankcity!]

With our guard play so far this season, anyone who thinks Murray would have earned any more playing time than Jaylen is kidding themselves.

Of the 3-8 guys, the only ones I didn't want want were Hield and Chriss, but most of those guys playing on bad teams are going to look better than Jaylen this season.  It's very hard for a one-and-done to come in and get good minutes on a contending team.  18 months ago these guys were playing against high schoolers, and now they're in the NBA.  To have the added difficulty of being on a team that can't afford too many in-game mistakes means limited minutes.

I like how Stevens is using Jaylen at this point.  He brings him in at the end of the first quarter and beginning of the second quarter when most teams primarily have backups in, which gives him some minutes in when the game is competitive, but is not such a long stretch that any mistakes he makes would likely cost the team the game.  And then in the second half maybe he gets another stretch depending on game flow.

Jaylen is a smart, hard-working kid.  As the season progresses, I expect he'll find more minutes.  Come March I think he'll be averaging 13-18 minutes a game.  I liked a play he made yesterday on offense -- he missed an open 3 in the corner, but it was the right shot to take.  He knew he had missed it from the release, and instead of watching it, followed the shot, got the rebound, and calmly kicked it out to Olynyk, who made the open 3.  It was the type of play that showed the game is slowing down for him a little -- three weeks ago I bet he'd have tried to make a contested 12-footer off that rebound instead of finding the open man.

Are you suggesting that he has improved his game and is developing despite not being force-fed 30 minutes a game? Impossible!

My bad.  I forget that NBA basketball is really just a simulator in which minutes played is the only way players get better.   

It's not the only way, but it sure helps. I guess you don't want to help Brown improve. Just want to make his life more difficult. Rozier improved without many minutes last year for example, but what does that have to do with improving your chances of becoming a contender? You need Brown to improve as fast as he can.

[moiso]

That doesn't mean that Brown won't be a bust while Murray becomes a quality rotation guy. I'll give these guys some time. Remember how many here regretted not keeping Marshon Brooks when he had a strong rookie season? He's in China now.

MarShon Brooks was not a good player in his rookie season.  People who think he was shouldn't be listened to.

Reminded me of Gerald Green in Jersey and Phoenix.

Gerald Green had one decent season in Phoenix and was otherwise an adequate bench player at best and often not even that good.  He's somewhat useful if he can make 40% of his threes and trash if he is making more like 34%.  He'll fool people who think that an athletic player who can score double digit points per game off the bench must be a good player.

Agreed.

[tankcity!]

The simple thing about rookies is, the ones that can shoot and average almost a point per minute consistently are gonna play..... alot, whether they play good D or not.  If the offense isn't there, you'd better just be overflowing with D and intangibles (ie, a Marcus Smart) to see the court much.  Right now Murray fits the first category, and Jaylen doesn't fit the second.  The ONLY way young guys get comfortable and confident is with MINUTES---lots of them!  Murray got his chance cause of all the backcourt injuries the Nuggets have had, and their lack of options at those positions.  Jaylen won't get the opportunity this year because BS will always shift veterans around to fill the SF position, leaving Jaylen essentially left out.  So I'm not looking for basically anything from JB this year except getting his feet wet, and then next year almost starting from scratch again!  It's what happens when you try to win and rebuild at the same time.

Rozier looked very comfortable in the playoffs last year despite playing only 311 minutes during the regular season (a mark that Brown has almost reached already).  Clearly you can get comfortable without playing big minutes.

It's nothing like starting from scratch again.  Just like Rozier wasn't "starting from scratch again" this year; even without getting force-fed minutes his understanding of the game increased and he improved on his weaknesses.  I'd expect a similar jump from Brown next year

Yeah, obviously a player can. But isn't it Steven's job to help Brown improve. I'm clearly watching something else because I see a player who has lost confidence. Hard to even say he has been consistently improving imo. Hopefully he improves like Rozier did in the offseason, but I don't get how Celtics fans don't want to force minutes on the guy since it will only benefit him and since he is the only one on this team who has a shot at being a star.

But nope, let's just blindly follow Stevens and treat him like a messiah. Let's win 4 or 5 games more and lose in the 2nd round. Yay! What a year it was to be a celtics fan! Let's get swept by Cleveland!! Yipeee!!!

[celticsclay]

The simple thing about rookies is, the ones that can shoot and average almost a point per minute consistently are gonna play..... alot, whether they play good D or not.  If the offense isn't there, you'd better just be overflowing with D and intangibles (ie, a Marcus Smart) to see the court much.  Right now Murray fits the first category, and Jaylen doesn't fit the second.  The ONLY way young guys get comfortable and confident is with MINUTES---lots of them!  Murray got his chance cause of all the backcourt injuries the Nuggets have had, and their lack of options at those positions.  Jaylen won't get the opportunity this year because BS will always shift veterans around to fill the SF position, leaving Jaylen essentially left out.  So I'm not looking for basically anything from JB this year except getting his feet wet, and then next year almost starting from scratch again!  It's what happens when you try to win and rebuild at the same time.

Rozier looked very comfortable in the playoffs last year despite playing only 311 minutes during the regular season (a mark that Brown has almost reached already).  Clearly you can get comfortable without playing big minutes.

It's nothing like starting from scratch again.  Just like Rozier wasn't "starting from scratch again" this year; even without getting force-fed minutes his understanding of the game increased and he improved on his weaknesses.  I'd expect a similar jump from Brown next year

Yeah, obviously a player can. But isn't it Steven's job to help Brown improve. I'm clearly watching something else because I see a player who has lost confidence. Hard to even say he has been consistently improving imo. Hopefully he improves like Rozier did in the offseason, but I don't get how Celtics fans don't want to force minutes on the guy since it will only benefit him and since he is the only one on this team who has a shot at being a star.

But nope, let's just blindly follow Stevens and treat him like a messiah. Let's win 4 or 5 games more and lose in the 2nd round. Yay! What a year it was to be a celtics fan! Let's get swept by Cleveland!! Yipeee!!!

I would be pretty surprised if we're fully healthy and got swept. Also is there no chance we add someone at deadline?

[tankcity!]

The simple thing about rookies is, the ones that can shoot and average almost a point per minute consistently are gonna play..... alot, whether they play good D or not.  If the offense isn't there, you'd better just be overflowing with D and intangibles (ie, a Marcus Smart) to see the court much.  Right now Murray fits the first category, and Jaylen doesn't fit the second.  The ONLY way young guys get comfortable and confident is with MINUTES---lots of them!  Murray got his chance cause of all the backcourt injuries the Nuggets have had, and their lack of options at those positions.  Jaylen won't get the opportunity this year because BS will always shift veterans around to fill the SF position, leaving Jaylen essentially left out.  So I'm not looking for basically anything from JB this year except getting his feet wet, and then next year almost starting from scratch again!  It's what happens when you try to win and rebuild at the same time.

Rozier looked very comfortable in the playoffs last year despite playing only 311 minutes during the regular season (a mark that Brown has almost reached already).  Clearly you can get comfortable without playing big minutes.

It's nothing like starting from scratch again.  Just like Rozier wasn't "starting from scratch again" this year; even without getting force-fed minutes his understanding of the game increased and he improved on his weaknesses.  I'd expect a similar jump from Brown next year

Yeah, obviously a player can. But isn't it Steven's job to help Brown improve. I'm clearly watching something else because I see a player who has lost confidence. Hard to even say he has been consistently improving imo. Hopefully he improves like Rozier did in the offseason, but I don't get how Celtics fans don't want to force minutes on the guy since it will only benefit him and since he is the only one on this team who has a shot at being a star.

But nope, let's just blindly follow Stevens and treat him like a messiah. Let's win 4 or 5 games more and lose in the 2nd round. Yay! What a year it was to be a celtics fan! Let's get swept by Cleveland!! Yipeee!!!

I would be pretty surprised if we're fully healthy and got swept. Also is there no chance we add someone at deadline?

That would be awesome. But the only star who may be available is Cousins. I'm not a fan personally unless you get him at a reasonable price. Listen to Gary Washburn's interview this morning on the sports hub. It was very insightful on Cousins. The guy is a headcase.

And if we played Cleveland with the roster as is, I think we would at best lose in 5 games. Love is way better this year and so is the team as a whole. Even if we got a star, they would still be heavily favored in a series.

We have Jerebko and Zeller coming off the bench...