Anyone regret not taking Jamal Murray yet?

[guava_wrench]

The fact that Murray is having better stats than Brown this rookie year should surprise no one, look at their respective college stats.  Consensus was that Murray was high floor, low ceiling, Brown was low floor, high ceiling. That remains true after 20 games this year.

Well said. Attacking the rim like Brown does is hard. Very hard in the NBA. It takes time to get that down.

3pt shooting is important in the NBA and that bodes well for Murray. But it is easier to come in and catch and shoot if that is your thing than to come in and bully your way to the rim as a wing.

That doesn't mean that Brown won't be a bust while Murray becomes a quality rotation guy. I'll give these guys some time. Remember how many here regretted not keeping Marshon Brooks when he had a strong rookie season? He's in China now.

Right now, Brown has a lot of work to do but he looks like he will be a handful to defend.

[Moranis]

Funny how you forgot to mention that Jaylen has played an average of 5 minutes during the last five games whereas Jamal Murray has played an average of 27,2 minutes

In general, I don't see the point of discussing who is better based on a five game stint in the month of November. Let's make the comparison after some years. Jaylen could easily become a better shooter 3 years from now provided that he keeps working on his shot.

That sort of proves the point though.  There are plenty more than 5 minutes for Jaylen to get, but he can't earn them (and he played like crap when Crowder was injured).  Murray is earning minutes in a crowded backcourt, though it does help that Harris and Barton have both missed time, but Murray is playing well and will likely keep getting minutes if he continues this play.  Sometimes you need an injury to someone in front of you to get playing time, but whether you keep it is governed by how you play in that opportunity.  Brown failed in his and Murray is thus far succeeding in his.

[GratefulCs]

This thread should be called "is anyone impatient?"

[LooseCannon]

That doesn't mean that Brown won't be a bust while Murray becomes a quality rotation guy. I'll give these guys some time. Remember how many here regretted not keeping Marshon Brooks when he had a strong rookie season? He's in China now.

MarShon Brooks was not a good player in his rookie season.  People who think he was shouldn't be listened to.

[CelticGuardian]

I have no issue, look at Jimmy Butler's rookie season. It's all about desire and "getting it", the minutes is one thing, but it's all on the individual at the end of day, if Jaylen is a star he will become it.

[TA9]

Funny how you forgot to mention that Jaylen has played an average of 5 minutes during the last five games whereas Jamal Murray has played an average of 27,2 minutes

In general, I don't see the point of discussing who is better based on a five game stint in the month of November. Let's make the comparison after some years. Jaylen could easily become a better shooter 3 years from now provided that he keeps working on his shot.

That sort of proves the point though.  There are plenty more than 5 minutes for Jaylen to get, but he can't earn them (and he played like crap when Crowder was injured).  Murray is earning minutes in a crowded backcourt, though it does help that Harris and Barton have both missed time, but Murray is playing well and will likely keep getting minutes if he continues this play.  Sometimes you need an injury to someone in front of you to get playing time, but whether you keep it is governed by how you play in that opportunity.  Brown failed in his and Murray is thus far succeeding in his.

I do understand the reasoning behind your post, but the fact is that there are a lot of different factors in play. Sure, Murray is playing on a team with a crowded backcourt, but he is competing for minutes against the likes of Jameer Nelson and Emmanuel Mudiay (who is good but very inconsistent) whereas Jaylen has to take minutes away from Jae Crowder, which in my opinion is a lot tougher. Furthermore, I wouldn't say that Jaylen played like "crap" while Jae was out as he showed some positive signs in the games against Cleveland, New York and Golden State. Personally, I would say that he played very inconsistently which is something that he has to improve on.

The point of the matter is that it is inadequate to discuss who is the better player as of this moment. I'd say wait for some time to pass before making the comparison.

[CelticGuardian]

If you guys want to bash Danny's drafting, I say this is the perfect moment to look at Kelly Olynyk and comparing him to his class but Jaylen is still at least 3 more years away.

[manl_lui]

If you guys want to bash Danny's drafting, I say this is the perfect moment to look at Kelly Olynyk and comparing him to his class but Jaylen is still at least 3 more years away.

good point, here is the 2013 draft results

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NBA_draft

Here are the players that I think that are good/serviceable or noticeable names (i might have overlooked so correct me if I am wrong or missing anyone)

Oladipo (2nd overall)
Otto Porter (3rd)
Noel (6th)
McLemore (7th)
CJ McCollum (10)
MCW (11th)

Kelly (13th)

Giannis (15th)
Schroder (17th)
Dieng (21)
Gobert (27th)

again I may be missing someone here and there, but in a redraft, where would you rate Kelly, I say Kelly offensively is better than Noel, possibly better than MCW, better than McLemore, so in a redraft, would Kelly crack the lotto? perhaps even top 5?

We all know everyone's love for Giannis on this board and outside of CB, but given Kelly draft position at 13, I am saying he is probably one of the better players of his draft class

[CelticGuardian]

If you guys want to bash Danny's drafting, I say this is the perfect moment to look at Kelly Olynyk and comparing him to his class but Jaylen is still at least 3 more years away.

good point, here is the 2013 draft results

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NBA_draft

Here are the players that I think that are good/serviceable or noticeable names (i might have overlooked so correct me if I am wrong or missing anyone)

Oladipo (2nd overall)
Otto Porter (3rd)
Noel (6th)
McLemore (7th)
CJ McCollum (10)
MCW (11th)

Kelly (13th)

Giannis (15th)
Schroder (17th)
Dieng (21)
Gobert (27th)

again I may be missing someone here and there, but in a redraft, where would you rate Kelly, I say Kelly offensively is better than Noel, possibly better than MCW, better than McLemore, so in a redraft, would Kelly crack the lotto? perhaps even top 5?

We all know everyone's love for Giannis on this board and outside of CB, but given Kelly draft position at 13, I am saying he is probably one of the better players of his draft class

Giannis will go first in that draft in hindsight, just the superior player as of now.

Olynyk has been servicable, but 3 guys you mentioned drafted after him are having better careers while two or three that were drafted ahead of him had fallen off the map(MCW, Ben Mclemore)

A redraft of that lottery would look something like this:

1. Greek Freak
2. CJ McCollum
3. Rudy Gobert
4.Otto Porter
5. Oladipo
6. Gorgui Dieng
7. Dennis Schroeder
8. Kelly Olynyk
9. Nerlens Noel

[Moranis]

Funny how you forgot to mention that Jaylen has played an average of 5 minutes during the last five games whereas Jamal Murray has played an average of 27,2 minutes

In general, I don't see the point of discussing who is better based on a five game stint in the month of November. Let's make the comparison after some years. Jaylen could easily become a better shooter 3 years from now provided that he keeps working on his shot.

That sort of proves the point though.  There are plenty more than 5 minutes for Jaylen to get, but he can't earn them (and he played like crap when Crowder was injured).  Murray is earning minutes in a crowded backcourt, though it does help that Harris and Barton have both missed time, but Murray is playing well and will likely keep getting minutes if he continues this play.  Sometimes you need an injury to someone in front of you to get playing time, but whether you keep it is governed by how you play in that opportunity.  Brown failed in his and Murray is thus far succeeding in his.

I do understand the reasoning behind your post, but the fact is that there are a lot of different factors in play. Sure, Murray is playing on a team with a crowded backcourt, but he is competing for minutes against the likes of Jameer Nelson and Emmanuel Mudiay (who is good but very inconsistent) whereas Jaylen has to take minutes away from Jae Crowder, which in my opinion is a lot tougher. Furthermore, I wouldn't say that Jaylen played like "crap" while Jae was out as he showed some positive signs in the games against Cleveland, New York and Golden State. Personally, I would say that he played very inconsistently which is something that he has to improve on.

The point of the matter is that it is inadequate to discuss who is the better player as of this moment. I'd say wait for some time to pass before making the comparison.

Crowder is playing 27 mpg.  that means at SF there are 21 minutes available a game (and that assumes Crowder never logs time at PF).  If Brown can't even get the backup SF minutes, that should tell you all you need to know about him at this point.   

[Moranis]

If you guys want to bash Danny's drafting, I say this is the perfect moment to look at Kelly Olynyk and comparing him to his class but Jaylen is still at least 3 more years away.

good point, here is the 2013 draft results

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NBA_draft

Here are the players that I think that are good/serviceable or noticeable names (i might have overlooked so correct me if I am wrong or missing anyone)

Oladipo (2nd overall)
Otto Porter (3rd)
Noel (6th)
McLemore (7th)
CJ McCollum (10)
MCW (11th)

Kelly (13th)

Giannis (15th)
Schroder (17th)
Dieng (21)
Gobert (27th)

again I may be missing someone here and there, but in a redraft, where would you rate Kelly, I say Kelly offensively is better than Noel, possibly better than MCW, better than McLemore, so in a redraft, would Kelly crack the lotto? perhaps even top 5?

We all know everyone's love for Giannis on this board and outside of CB, but given Kelly draft position at 13, I am saying he is probably one of the better players of his draft class

Giannis will go first in that draft in hindsight, just the superior player as of now.

Olynyk has been servicable, but 3 guys you mentioned drafted after him are having better careers while two or three that were drafted ahead of him had fallen off the map(MCW, Ben Mclemore)

A redraft of that lottery would look something like this:

1. Greek Freak
2. CJ McCollum
3. Rudy Gobert
4.Otto Porter
5. Oladipo
6. Gorgui Dieng
7. Dennis Schroeder
8. Kelly Olynyk
9. Nerlens Noel

Adams clearly goes ahead of KO (he wasn't on that list).  You could also make real arguments for Plumlee, Zeller, Noel, Len, KCP, and Roberson

[celticsclay]

Funny how you forgot to mention that Jaylen has played an average of 5 minutes during the last five games whereas Jamal Murray has played an average of 27,2 minutes

In general, I don't see the point of discussing who is better based on a five game stint in the month of November. Let's make the comparison after some years. Jaylen could easily become a better shooter 3 years from now provided that he keeps working on his shot.

That sort of proves the point though.  There are plenty more than 5 minutes for Jaylen to get, but he can't earn them (and he played like crap when Crowder was injured).  Murray is earning minutes in a crowded backcourt, though it does help that Harris and Barton have both missed time, but Murray is playing well and will likely keep getting minutes if he continues this play.  Sometimes you need an injury to someone in front of you to get playing time, but whether you keep it is governed by how you play in that opportunity.  Brown failed in his and Murray is thus far succeeding in his.

Moranis. I know you get this. The nuggets are clearly rebuilding. It does not hurt them to lose games by giving Murray minutes he may not have earned. Every game matters for the Celtics in terms of playoff seeding and possible homecourt in playoffs. Brown will have a much shorter leash because of that. We are smarter fans than to act like we don't understand this.

[celticsclay]

This thread should be called "is anyone impatient?"

Or "who feels like arguing and taking situations out of contex?"

[LooseCannon]

If you guys want to bash Danny's drafting, I say this is the perfect moment to look at Kelly Olynyk and comparing him to his class but Jaylen is still at least 3 more years away.

Olynyk wasn't a home run but he was a solid base hit.  He's only a failure if you give an F to any pick that isn't Giannis in that spot.

A single pick is a small sample size.  Instead of looking solely at results, we should try to discern Ainge's thought process behind the pick and trading up to make it.  Do we trust his process or not?

[celticsclay]

Discussions based on 5 games? In November of rookie seasons?

The OP will do this all season. Wait for the thread any time another rookie has a nice 5 game stretch. We were close to a saric one a few weeks ago but then saric started slumping