NBA Season 2016-2017

[MJohnnyboy]

Greg Monroe had a healthy DNP tonight.

Hmmmmmmm.....

Hmmmm indeed. I don't know if I would like to trade for him, but it's certainly interesting to see. Is he playing bad this season? Or is it just that Kidd is dedicated to the youth movement?

I think its more that the Bucks realize they need to play bigs that are better defensively like John Henson, can run the floor like Miles Plumlee, or stretch the floor like Mirza Teletovic. I'm also pretty sure they're hoping someday Thon Maker will be able to do all three of those things. Those guys help the team more than Monroe's style of play.

I for one would like Monroe but only if all other options have failed, the Celtics haven't solved their rebounding woes, and if he agrees to opt out this summer.

would you resign him this summer? i'm personally kinda "meh" on his game, but i'm willing to be persuaded one way or another.

I'm not sure. I think Monroe has always played on the wrong team his whole career. In Detroit he lived in Andre Drummond's shadow. In Milwaukee he went to a team with no spacing and crappy defense which spelled disaster for all parties involved. It's funny because I thought he was going to thrive on the Bucks but it turned out Jabari was worse atn defense and spacing the floor then I thought he was.

Anyway, I think Monroe would help solve the Celtics rebounding issues and thrive playing next to the likes of Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Horford, and Olynyk because they are all feared shooters. Having them would make it much easier for him to dominate in the post. The issue is that the offense is already pretty darn good and it's the defense that seems to be struggling (Though Chris Forsberg tweeted out today that the D has improved a bit since those embarrassing blowouts to Denver and Washington). I don't think Monroe is as bad defensively as people think he is but he doesn't make a defense better. I'd prefer Demarcus Cousins or Nerlens Noel because those guys can help the defense.

It all comes down to the quite obvious fact that the Celtics need another big who can consistently produce. Monroe can do that, but to what degree can he do that? Keeping Monroe long-term would have to depend on how well he would fit on the roster. If he fits well enough to make the Celtics a contender, then sign me up, but if he's not, I'd rather the Celtics go for someone better. That's simply because Monroe would cost a bit. I'd rather that money be thrown at a much bigger name like Cousins, Durant, or Griffin.

[alldaboston]

Greg Monroe had a healthy DNP tonight.

Hmmmmmmm.....

Hmmmm indeed. I don't know if I would like to trade for him, but it's certainly interesting to see. Is he playing bad this season? Or is it just that Kidd is dedicated to the youth movement?

I think its more that the Bucks realize they need to play bigs that are better defensively like John Henson, can run the floor like Miles Plumlee, or stretch the floor like Mirza Teletovic. I'm also pretty sure they're hoping someday Thon Maker will be able to do all three of those things. Those guys help the team more than Monroe's style of play.

I for one would like Monroe but only if all other options have failed, the Celtics haven't solved their rebounding woes, and if he agrees to opt out this summer.

would you resign him this summer? i'm personally kinda "meh" on his game, but i'm willing to be persuaded one way or another.

I'm not sure. I think Monroe has always played on the wrong team his whole career. In Detroit he lived in Andre Drummond's shadow. In Milwaukee he went to a team with no spacing and crappy defense which spelled disaster for all parties involved. It's funny because I thought he was going to thrive on the Bucks but it turned out Jabari was worse atn defense and spacing the floor then I thought he was.

Anyway, I think Monroe would help solve the Celtics rebounding issues and thrive playing next to the likes of Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Horford, and Olynyk because they are all feared shooters. Having them would make it much easier for him to dominate in the post. The issue is that the offense is already pretty darn good and it's the defense that seems to be struggling (Though Chris Forsberg tweeted out today that the D has improved a bit since those embarrassing blowouts to Denver and Washington). I don't think Monroe is as bad defensively as people think he is but he doesn't make a defense better. I'd prefer Demarcus Cousins or Nerlens Noel because those guys can help the defense.

It all comes down to the quite obvious fact that the Celtics need another big who can consistently produce. Monroe can do that, but to what degree can he do that? Keeping Monroe long-term would have to depend on how well he would fit on the roster. If he fits well enough to make the Celtics a contender, then sign me up, but if he's not, I'd rather the Celtics go for someone better. That's simply because Monroe would cost a bit. I'd rather that money be thrown at a much bigger name like Cousins, Durant, or Griffin.

Yeah, my two biggest concerns with Monroe are his defense, and his future on the team if we were to trade for him. I don't mind his skill set at all, on offense, but you have to wonder whether signing him will help us get closer to Cleveland, or whether it'll stagnate the whole process of what Danny has built up to this point.

I really want to go for Blake. I think he would look so good here, and he would help us out a lot. But i also know he's gonna stay in LA. Hollywood and the big life is just too important to who he is off the court (commercials, advertisements, and all).

[MJohnnyboy]

Greg Monroe had a healthy DNP tonight.

Hmmmmmmm.....

Hmmmm indeed. I don't know if I would like to trade for him, but it's certainly interesting to see. Is he playing bad this season? Or is it just that Kidd is dedicated to the youth movement?

I think its more that the Bucks realize they need to play bigs that are better defensively like John Henson, can run the floor like Miles Plumlee, or stretch the floor like Mirza Teletovic. I'm also pretty sure they're hoping someday Thon Maker will be able to do all three of those things. Those guys help the team more than Monroe's style of play.

I for one would like Monroe but only if all other options have failed, the Celtics haven't solved their rebounding woes, and if he agrees to opt out this summer.

would you resign him this summer? i'm personally kinda "meh" on his game, but i'm willing to be persuaded one way or another.

I'm not sure. I think Monroe has always played on the wrong team his whole career. In Detroit he lived in Andre Drummond's shadow. In Milwaukee he went to a team with no spacing and crappy defense which spelled disaster for all parties involved. It's funny because I thought he was going to thrive on the Bucks but it turned out Jabari was worse atn defense and spacing the floor then I thought he was.

Anyway, I think Monroe would help solve the Celtics rebounding issues and thrive playing next to the likes of Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Horford, and Olynyk because they are all feared shooters. Having them would make it much easier for him to dominate in the post. The issue is that the offense is already pretty darn good and it's the defense that seems to be struggling (Though Chris Forsberg tweeted out today that the D has improved a bit since those embarrassing blowouts to Denver and Washington). I don't think Monroe is as bad defensively as people think he is but he doesn't make a defense better. I'd prefer Demarcus Cousins or Nerlens Noel because those guys can help the defense.

It all comes down to the quite obvious fact that the Celtics need another big who can consistently produce. Monroe can do that, but to what degree can he do that? Keeping Monroe long-term would have to depend on how well he would fit on the roster. If he fits well enough to make the Celtics a contender, then sign me up, but if he's not, I'd rather the Celtics go for someone better. That's simply because Monroe would cost a bit. I'd rather that money be thrown at a much bigger name like Cousins, Durant, or Griffin.

Yeah, my two biggest concerns with Monroe are his defense, and his future on the team if we were to trade for him. I don't mind his skill set at all, on offense, but you have to wonder whether signing him will help us get closer to Cleveland, or whether it'll stagnate the whole process of what Danny has built up to this point.

I really want to go for Blake. I think he would look so good here, and he would help us out a lot. But i also know he's gonna stay in LA. Hollywood and the big life is just too important to who he is off the court (commercials, advertisements, and all).

Yeah have you seen the way the Clips have played? This might be their best team ever in the Doc era. If they challenge the Warriors/Spurs, no one's going anywhere. I can't wait to see how the new-look Clips match up against the West's elite.

Anyway something that just sprung to my mind just now is that Brad has been able to turn IT, someone who was once thought of as just Nate Robinson on steroids, into Stephen Curry-lite. Why? Because IT played on the wrong team that never utilized his talents to the fullest. I can't help but wonder if maybe he could do the same with a guy like Monroe. An offensively talented big who's never been given the proper chance to thrive in a system that could work for him. That's just something to think about.

It goes back to answering your original question: If Monroe shows that he is killing it under CBS, than let's keep him. If not, I don't want him long-term.

[LarBrd33]

Saric has now been benched in favor of a journeyman that's been on the team for about 2 weeks. That's very encouraging.

hes been the 2nd best rookie in the league behind Embiid.

If you ignore FG% sure.

He's averaging 10 points, 7 rebounds, 2 assists while shooting 41% from three.   

ok but he's shooting 38% from the field overall. you can't deny that. that's almost as bad as what Marcus shot last year. you know, the "historically bad" shooting year.

Are you referring to Marcus Smart's second season in which he literally had the worst three point shooting in NBA history?  No, Saric's first 11 games do not compare to that.

if you can cherry-pick stats, i can cherry-pick stats

I'm not cherry picking stats.  I'm saying he's flat out the 2nd best rookie so far this season.  Check any ranking.

you're clearly cherry picking when you fail to recognize that he's shooting a horrible percentage from the field, but proudly say that he's shooting well from 3, when in reality over 70% of his field goal attempts aren't even 3 pointers -- meaning, he's shooting a horrible, horrible percentage everywhere else, and hence he has a horrible, horrible field goal percentage overall.

Saric is second in the class in scoring, second in rebounding, third in 3-point percentage, 16th in field-goal percentage and first in minutes.  Collectively, he's been the 2nd best rookie so far this year.  Bottom line end of story.  Find me someone other than Embiid who has been better... you can't, because so far this rookie class has sucked outside of Joel Embiid.

And despite Eddie's transparent efforts to troll, Saric getting "benched" isn't relevant until some rookie other than Saric starts 10 games this season.   Saric was never expected to start this year in the first place... him leading all rookies in minutes and starts is a surprise.  He still got plenty of minutes last night off the bench in their big win against the Wizards.

I'm not denying the fact that he's had a good year so far. All I'm saying is, you can't just say all that's good about a player, when that same player has some serious flaws too.

alldaboston, stuff is getting lost in translation here.  Here's how the flow of this conversation went.

- Some troll points out that "Saric was benched... Doesn't Brown realize the "rookie", who turns 23 in April, is a tier 2 prospect and a ROTY candidate?"  ...   Clear and straight forward attempt to instigate. 

- I point out that Saric is widely considered to be having the 2nd best rookie campaign this season behind Embiid.  I point out some of his early season credentials.  I point out that him "benched" is clearly a negative spin on a positive situation.  Saric was always expected to come off the bench.  That he's leading all rookies in minutes and games started is a surprise.  That he put up solid numbers off the bench last night (3rd on the team in minutes and #1 on the team in field goal attempts last night) points to how irrelevant that "oh no saric has been benched" nonsense comment was.   

- Someone points out that Saric's FG% isn't great (16th amoungst all rookies) and for some random reason decides to compare him to Marcus Smart... who isn't a rookie this year and wasn't a rookie last year.

- I reiterate that despite Saric's "flaws", he's having the 2nd best campaign (so far) out of all rookies.   Highlight any rookie other than Saric and Embiid and you'll have a player who is playing even worse.

That's about as far as this conversation needs to go.  It's not that interesting.

Though, if you'd like to start a different thread comparing Saric to Smart, it's potentially worthwhile as they were seen as being the same tier of prospects when both were drafted in 2014.

sigh

ok. thanks for understanding my point, i guess. it's fine, we don't need to start yet another comparison thread.

Yeah it's not that interesting, but given that both were drafted in 2014 and were seen as the same tier of prospect, maybe you can start that thread if you really want to.   Saric's per-36 numbers (in his first 11 NBA games) of 13.4 points, 8.8 rebounds, 2.3 assists, 0.7 steals with 39%/41%/73% shooting compares well with Smart's Per-36 stats (who turns 23 in March and is in his 3rd season) of 12.7 points, 4.9 rebounds, 3.9 assists, 1.6 steals with 40%/33%/47% shooting.

I don't think that's something worth discussing here, though.

believe me, i'm good. a career comparison was never what i had intended in the first place. whatever.

Btw... Saric's stats this month (10 games):   11.6 points, 6.5 rebounds, 1.6 assists, 0.8 steals with 45%/48%/75% shooting.  His first two games had some rough shooting, but rookies gonna rookie.  There's a reason why he's considered the 2nd best rookie behind Joel Embiid so far.

[tazzmaniac]

Celticsblog forum has become the LarBrd33 "I'm always right and lets all ballwash Joel Embiid" forum.

I've been trying to get the mods to accept that re-branding for months and it's fallen on deaf ears.

Charles Barkley just compared Embiid/Simmons to Durant/Westbrook in terms of having two superstars.  He says if they stay healthy, they can be transformational players.

10 years of six posts a day worth of condescending tripe...I'm surprised the philly board hasn't made you a mod already.

I really don't care what Barkley thinks.

Please do not disparage my home dingers.

What Barkley says is true, though.  These two teams right now (Philly and the Timberwolves) have two of the most exciting young collections of talent in the league.  5-10 years from now we might be seeing these teams in the Finals against each other.

Then again, Embiid might be hurt again.  So who knows.

I'd be surprised if both Wiggins and Towns stay long term in Minnesota.

Re: Philly, I have no idea. They are such an embarrassment to the NBA and their fans that I could see Ben Simmons wanting to bounce right after his rookie deal to head to one of the major target cities that has a winning team. I hope Embiid stays healthy and stays in Philly, they need something to go right. Okafor and Noel will both test the market, and I don't see either staying. Maybe Saric stays?

None of those rookies are leaving unless the TWolves and Sixers want them to.  Wiggins and Embiid will both probably sign long term extensions this offseason.   The new CBA will probably make it even easier for teams to keep their players.

Is that true? I don't know much about the CBA.

Why wouldn't one of the bigs in Philly want to go elsewhere? I would think that Minnesota and Philly are not the first or second most popular teams for NBA stars.

Simmons in particular must have felt like his hands were tied with the LSU decision, and then couldn't have been too excited to get drafted by Philly. On a player's second deal, are the salary differences that much different that Simmons wouldn't think about going to LA (not even considering the difference in marketing opportunities)? He hired Lebron's agent Rich Paul, who has effectively worked shorter term contracts for his client.

With salaries going up across the league, wouldn't all teams have more money to spend in FA? I would think Simmons would be better off to test the market and listen to what teams want to pitch him.

http://www.nba.com/knicks/freeagency/faqs.html

After their rookie contracts expire, first-round picks become restricted free agents. So long as their original team extends a relatively small one-year "qualifying offer" contract (125% of the last year's salary under the rookie deal), they are allowed to match any larger contract by an opposing team. So if the Sixers offer Embiid the qualifying offer, he could meet with the Celtics, and Danny could sign him to the max; however, Philly retains the right to overrule us and resign him if they match that max offer.

Basically the only way to circumvent this system is if either the original team does NOT offer the qualifying offer, or if the player accepts the tiny 1-year deal, taking a big hit on salary and security for a year because they just really want to leave, or are betting on themselves getting a better deal with an extra year's experience under their belt. Greg Monroe jumped ship when he took the QO with Detroit, then bolted for Milwaukee the next year.

Hard to see Simmons or Embiid rejecting a huge deal because of the uncertainty of their health; but you never know, as the situation is Philly is indeed pretty toxic, there isn't much leadership on that club.

Besides the RFA, the current team can offer a 5 year deal whereas other teams can only offer a 4 year deal.  Teams also have the opportunity to work out an extension of their rookie contracts after the 3rd year in which case the rookie doesn't even hit their restricted free agency.  That is what happens with "star" rookies (e.g. Anthony Davis).  Wiggins will certainly get extended this offseason and Embiid will as well assuming he stays healthy.  We'll be able to work out an extension with Smart this offseason.  I'm guessing that we do but it is less certain since Smart isn't going to get a MAX extension.  I can't recall a rookie rejecting a MAX extension offer (under the current CBA) but someone did because of the huge cap jumps.  Monroe is the only player I recall accepting his 1 year minimum qualifying offer but the Pistons offer him somewhat less than MAX. 

Simmons is a true rookie who hasn't played yet.  It will be 3 additional years before he would even become an RFA so the situation this year really doesn't matter.  They'll be significantly better when he comes back and they'll should be able to build around him and Embiid quite easily.     

[tazzmaniac]

Evan Turner has been one of the worst players in the NBA this season. Not surprised people are already calling it arguably the worst deal of last summer.

He should write Brad a stipend for the rest of his life. Those two seasons here have set him for life.

it's a bad stat, but i read something that he had the worst +/- of anyone in the NBA a few days ago? [dang]. i'd love to have him back - just not at his insane price.

Offering Turner that much made no sense to me especially since they gave Crabbe a similar contract.  Was some other team actually offering close to what the Blazers gave Turner?  I can't see Ainge offering anywhere close to it. 

[Vox_Populi]

For all the whining here, at least we're not Portland.

[jpotter33]

Oh wow, Phoenix just beat the Pacers in Indy, too. Didn't have George again, but still.

[GC003332]

Russell Westbrook 32.6/11.8/11.0 on 51.9% shooting the last 5 games leading the Thunder to the 4th spot in the West.
Interesting to see how long he can keep the Thunder at this level minus Durant...

[LarBrd33]

Embiid has 17 in the first quarter (7 minutes).  Three 3s.

[LarBrd33]

Nik Stauskas has looked like the second coming of JJ Reddick the past 6 games.  That Kings/Philly trade has the potential to be one of the worst of all time.  They gave away Stauskas and picks for nothing just to free up cap space.  The big issue is if the Kings do indeed move Cousins and Philly makes a quick turnaround... Philly has swap rights with the Kings.  So even if Philly starts going on a run once they minutes restrictions on Embiid/Okafor lifts, Ben Simmons comes back and other injured contributors like Bayless get healthy, they will be able to swap picks with a post-Cousins Kings team.   Kinda takes the incentive out of moving Cousins for draft picks/prospects when you have a little fear that you can't benefit from tanking.  Granted, Philly will more than likely still finish towards the bottom this year, but because of that swap rights stuff, it's impossible for the Kings to get the #1 pick.  Presumably Philly will finish with a worst record than the Kings this year and it will not be a big deal... it's potentially a bigger problem next year if Philly is at full health and can swap picks with the Kings.

[max215]

Pelicans + Holiday aren't that bad. Jrue Holiday is pretty [dang] good.

[GratefulCs]

Philly

[MJohnnyboy]

Nik Stauskas has looked like the second coming of JJ Reddick the past 6 games.  That Kings/Philly trade has the potential to be one of the worst of all time.  They gave away Stauskas and picks for nothing just to free up cap space.  The big issue is if the Kings do indeed move Cousins and Philly makes a quick turnaround... Philly has swap rights with the Kings.  So even if Philly starts going on a run once they minutes restrictions on Embiid/Okafor lifts, Ben Simmons comes back and other injured contributors like Bayless get healthy, they will be able to swap picks with a post-Cousins Kings team.   Kinda takes the incentive out of moving Cousins for draft picks/prospects when you have a little fear that you can't benefit from tanking.  Granted, Philly will more than likely still finish towards the bottom this year, but because of that swap rights stuff, it's impossible for the Kings to get the #1 pick.  Presumably Philly will finish with a worst record than the Kings this year and it will not be a big deal... it's potentially a bigger problem next year if Philly is at full health and can swap picks with the Kings.

That goes to show that you should be patient with some players before you deem them disappointments, am I right?

Also the Kings and the Sixers don't have a pick swap next year BUT the Kings owe the Sixers an unprotected pick in 2019.

[LarBrd33]

Philly

3 game win streak at home.  Embiid reminds me of Shaq when he was a rookie... just on a minutes restriction.. Embiid probably has more skill than rookie Shaq.