Author Topic: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."  (Read 41325 times)

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Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #225 on: September 28, 2016, 01:54:50 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Noel is not the missing piece to put this Celtics team over the top. 

It'd be absolutely nuts to move BKN '17 alone for him, nevermind BKN '17 + change.
We could have the best defense in the league this season even without the addition of NOel.  But adding him (a player who I genuinely feel has a chance to be the best rim protector in the league) could theoretically make us unstoppable defensively, right? 

Golden State looks like they will have unprecedented offense this year.  I can see the logic in trying to build a team that will possibly have unprecedented defense.

So in that sense, I get what walker834 is arguing for.   But I'd still probably avoid doing it.  That Brooklyn pick has a chance to be a key part in us acquiring a superstar.

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #226 on: September 28, 2016, 01:58:04 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Noel is not the missing piece to put this Celtics team over the top. 

It'd be absolutely nuts to move BKN '17 alone for him, nevermind BKN '17 + change.
We could have the best defense in the league this season even without the addition of NOel.  But adding him (a player who I genuinely feel has a chance to be the best rim protector in the league) could theoretically make us unstoppable defensively, right? 

Golden State looks like they will have unprecedented offense this year.  I can see the logic in trying to build a team that will possibly have unprecedented defense.

So in that sense, I get what walker834 is arguing for.   But I'd still probably avoid doing it.  That Brooklyn pick has a chance to be a key part in us acquiring a superstar.

You're not just building for this upcoming season.  You're building long-term.  Keeping BKN '17 & Rozier is going to be a helluva cheaper than bringing in Noel nevermind the better than average chance that BKN '17 will produce a superior player to Noel.


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Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #227 on: September 28, 2016, 02:10:42 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Noel is not the missing piece to put this Celtics team over the top. 

It'd be absolutely nuts to move BKN '17 alone for him, nevermind BKN '17 + change.
We could have the best defense in the league this season even without the addition of NOel.  But adding him (a player who I genuinely feel has a chance to be the best rim protector in the league) could theoretically make us unstoppable defensively, right? 

Golden State looks like they will have unprecedented offense this year.  I can see the logic in trying to build a team that will possibly have unprecedented defense.

So in that sense, I get what walker834 is arguing for.   But I'd still probably avoid doing it.  That Brooklyn pick has a chance to be a key part in us acquiring a superstar.

You're not just building for this upcoming season.  You're building long-term.  Keeping BKN '17 & Rozier is going to be a helluva cheaper than bringing in Noel nevermind the better than average chance that BKN '17 will produce a superior player to Noel.
Noel is 22 years old and presumably hasn't reached his ceiling (he's heading into his 3rd year - just like Marcus Smart.  Both are just as likely to make leaps).  It's not like adding him would be adding a vet.

It's entirely very possible that the Brooklyn pick results in a player that will be far worse long-term than Noel.  This is without a doubt true.   There's a very good percentage that the pick will be a player who is lesser than Nerlens Noel.  There's also the distinct possibility the pick lands someone who ends up better than Noel.  Both possibilities need to be accounted for.

Still, there's other valid reasons to avoid that trade right now.

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #228 on: September 28, 2016, 02:16:18 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Noel is not the missing piece to put this Celtics team over the top. 

It'd be absolutely nuts to move BKN '17 alone for him, nevermind BKN '17 + change.
We could have the best defense in the league this season even without the addition of NOel.  But adding him (a player who I genuinely feel has a chance to be the best rim protector in the league) could theoretically make us unstoppable defensively, right? 

Golden State looks like they will have unprecedented offense this year.  I can see the logic in trying to build a team that will possibly have unprecedented defense.

So in that sense, I get what walker834 is arguing for.   But I'd still probably avoid doing it.  That Brooklyn pick has a chance to be a key part in us acquiring a superstar.

You're not just building for this upcoming season.  You're building long-term.  Keeping BKN '17 & Rozier is going to be a helluva cheaper than bringing in Noel nevermind the better than average chance that BKN '17 will produce a superior player to Noel.
Noel is 22 years old and presumably hasn't reached his ceiling (he's heading into his 3rd year - just like Marcus Smart.  Both are just as likely to make leaps).  It's not like adding him would be adding a vet.

It's entirely very possible that the Brooklyn pick results in a player that will be far worse long-term than Noel.  This is without a doubt true.   There's a very good percentage that the pick will be a player who is lesser than Nerlens Noel.  There's also the distinct possibility the pick lands someone who ends up better than Noel.  Both possibilities need to be accounted for.

Still, there's other valid reasons to avoid that trade right now.

Noel is not the missing piece.  If you're moving BKN '17 in a package, you better get a helluva less flawed player in return than Nerlens Noel.   And much more established.  You're trading that pick to bank on another guy's potential.

You account for both possibilities but you already own BKN '17.  That won't cost you anything.  Plus you have that asset under cost control for the foreseeable future. There also is a very good chance that it will be top 5 if not better.  This is, without a doubt, true.

Acquiring Noel comes at a cost.  Because you have to trade for him.  Additionally, you then have to factor in his next contract.  There goes your cost control out the window. 


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Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #229 on: September 28, 2016, 02:19:12 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Noel is not the missing piece to put this Celtics team over the top. 

It'd be absolutely nuts to move BKN '17 alone for him, nevermind BKN '17 + change.
We could have the best defense in the league this season even without the addition of NOel.  But adding him (a player who I genuinely feel has a chance to be the best rim protector in the league) could theoretically make us unstoppable defensively, right? 

Golden State looks like they will have unprecedented offense this year.  I can see the logic in trying to build a team that will possibly have unprecedented defense.

So in that sense, I get what walker834 is arguing for.   But I'd still probably avoid doing it.  That Brooklyn pick has a chance to be a key part in us acquiring a superstar.

You're not just building for this upcoming season.  You're building long-term.  Keeping BKN '17 & Rozier is going to be a helluva cheaper than bringing in Noel nevermind the better than average chance that BKN '17 will produce a superior player to Noel.
Noel is 22 years old and presumably hasn't reached his ceiling (he's heading into his 3rd year - just like Marcus Smart.  Both are just as likely to make leaps).  It's not like adding him would be adding a vet.

It's entirely very possible that the Brooklyn pick results in a player that will be far worse long-term than Noel.  This is without a doubt true.   There's a very good percentage that the pick will be a player who is lesser than Nerlens Noel.  There's also the distinct possibility the pick lands someone who ends up better than Noel.  Both possibilities need to be accounted for.

Still, there's other valid reasons to avoid that trade right now.

Noel is not the missing piece.  If you're moving BKN '17 in a package, you better get a helluva less flawed player in return than Nerlens Noel.   And much more established.  You're trading that pick to bank on another guy's potential.

You account for both possibilities but you already own BKN '17.  That won't cost you anything.  Plus you have that asset under cost control for the foreseeable future. There also is a very good chance that it will be top 5 if not better.  This is, without a doubt, true.

Acquiring Noel comes at a cost.  Because you have to trade for him.  Additionally, you then have to factor in his next contract.  There goes your cost control out the window.
i agree with a lot of what you're saying.  I'm just saying that walker has a valid point in that if we keep the pick, and use it to draft a prospect, the value of that pick immediately changes to whatever that prospect's value is.   And there's a really decent chance Noel will end up a much better player than whoever that pick actually is used on.  For instance, the 2016 Brooklyn draft pick was probably 5x more valuable before we used it on Jaylen Brown.

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #230 on: September 28, 2016, 02:30:54 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Pretty obvious by the post that ya didn't look into him on your first post and just started to Walker834. Trust me Jarrett Allen will be better long term but I'm not 100% sure DA will draft him. DA has struggled the last few drafts.

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #231 on: September 28, 2016, 03:35:15 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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I think people on this board must be smoking something if they don't think Simmons can guard 1-4. He's a special athlete and has the lateral quickness. If philly really wanted to, they could put Noel on 4's. Noel should be able to guard them since athleticism is his strength.

In 2 years, people will realize Simmons is more versatile than anyone on the Celtics. People on this board can keep dreaming though. I just laugh when I see people here saying he can only play one position.

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #232 on: September 28, 2016, 03:37:39 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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I think the biggest bit of confusion people have about the Philly situation is thinking their big man log jam is purely a negative thing.   It's a problem, but it's a nice problem to have.  I wouldn't mind having three star prospect point guards, for instance.  We have one in Thomas.  Smart hopefully makes a leap into that territory this year.  Rozier is a big unknown but perhaps he gets there as well.  If all three were good, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

One difference is that Boston won more games last year than Philly did last year and the two previous years combined. 
That really doesn't have anything to do with it. 
Rozier isn't going to start complaining in the media about playing time because good guys on winning teams don't do that.
C'mon... that's really silly.  Rozier is irrelevant to the NBA.  He might have a future, but right now it would seem ridiculous for a D-League talent to be upset about his D-League role.  Especially considering he has multiple years left on his rookie deal for him to find the necessary minutes to showcase his talents for his next contract.

Noel, on the other hand, might be the best defensive center in the league and yet he projects to be a back-up on a team that is loaded with high quality big man prospects.  He's coming into free agency.  He has every right to be upset.  Most see him as the odd man out.   He's the one Philly keeps getting calls on.  Noel is just admitting what everyone can see with common sense.

Unfortunately, he's just going to have to suck it up and wait it out, because the best course of action for Philly remains to be waiting to see how their team plays and what kind of offers they receive later into the season.  If Embiid can't stay healthy, they'll be pretty glad they didn't rush to make a decision on Noel vs Okafor.

Colangelo himself basically sums it up on the Woj podcast:

Quote
Making the statement that something absolutely will be done is not necessarily the case.  I think what I said over the course of the summer is there's no doubt we've got three talented players.  It's a high class problem to have.  The unknowns are the health of the three players - in particular Joel.  It's kind of put us in a situation where we would listen, and entertain something if there was something that made sense, but I never felt compelled that we have to do something because some of it will work itself out naturally over the course of time. The notion that we were out shopping any of them and aggressively pushing to make a deal is not the case.  But we certainly listen.  A lot of people thought we were in a corner, and we never felt we were in that corner. 

Agreed.

Stats AKA facts don't back up your claim to call Noel an unbelievable defender. He sucks at rebounding too according to the metrics. He sucks at blocking as well. Pretty good at stealing though. But hey, let's ignore facts and claim he's an unreal defender.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_advanced.html

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #233 on: September 28, 2016, 03:39:50 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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Still doesnt explain why that's  more valuable.

Noel could be Tyson Chandler/skinny DeAndre Jordan.  The pick could be Lebron/Durant/Anthony Davis/etc.

Now, the pick could also be a bust but Noel could also be Marcus Camby without a jump shot.

Mike

There is no Lebron or Durant in this draft. Maybe you should recheck draft express

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #234 on: September 28, 2016, 03:46:02 PM »

Offline tankcity!

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"It'll be interesting if Philly makes the playoffs this year."

The guy who wrote that must have the record for being wrong.
You don't think it would be interesting if Philly makes the playoffs this year?  I think it would be super interesting and I'm pretty much always right.

For starters, you should change the avatar.

Aren't you the guy that had Brooklyn winning forty games and a thread watch for a Celtics' lottery pick?
For starters, I've changed my avatar per your suggestion.

Secondly, no.  I never had Brooklyn winning 40 games.  I predicted Brooklyn would be a bottom 5 team.

And yes, I agree it's unlikely that Philly makes the playoffs this year.  That's why it would be very interesting if they did.

That's a blatant lie

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #235 on: September 28, 2016, 03:52:50 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I think people on this board must be smoking something if they don't think Simmons can guard 1-4. He's a special athlete and has the lateral quickness. If philly really wanted to, they could put Noel on 4's. Noel should be able to guard them since athleticism is his strength.

He has the physical tools to be a good defender.  My concern is that he has the sort of attitude where even an elite coach like Brad Stevens wouldn't be able to get him to be anything other than lazy on defense.
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Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #236 on: September 28, 2016, 05:08:50 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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"It'll be interesting if Philly makes the playoffs this year."

The guy who wrote that must have the record for being wrong.
You don't think it would be interesting if Philly makes the playoffs this year?  I think it would be super interesting and I'm pretty much always right.

For starters, you should change the avatar.

Aren't you the guy that had Brooklyn winning forty games and a thread watch for a Celtics' lottery pick?
For starters, I've changed my avatar per your suggestion.

Secondly, no.  I never had Brooklyn winning 40 games.  I predicted Brooklyn would be a bottom 5 team.

And yes, I agree it's unlikely that Philly makes the playoffs this year.  That's why it would be very interesting if they did.

That's a blatant lie
Wrong.  See the Brooklyn thread for clarity.  We talked about in depth.  I was always a believer that Brooklyn would finish in the bottom 5.  Call Sean Hannity. 

Let's keep this thread focused on the Sixers.

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #237 on: September 28, 2016, 05:13:45 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Many people are saying Billy King sent a delegation to LarBrd's office to ask him to stop being so vocal about Brooklyn being awful last year, ok? 

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #238 on: September 28, 2016, 06:03:33 PM »

Offline walker834

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Simmons will be fine.  He's definately a mismatch wherever he plays though but that is to his advantage too.  I more question what the sixers are doing there and how they will surround him with players.  It's a weird mix there.  Okafor is a really good offensive player too.  Neither guy can shoot. Plus Embiid.  It's like having Magic, Dikembe and Okafor all on the same team except young. HOw that team looks ultimately if they are ever successful is probably going to look very different. 

Simmons is really the guy they need to build around. Embiid is very good too and Okafor then Noel.  Covington jacks up shots. Good hustle and energy guy plus Saric and Lawawu.  It's a weird mix they have there.

Re: Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."
« Reply #239 on: September 28, 2016, 06:11:26 PM »

Offline alldaboston

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"It'll be interesting if Philly makes the playoffs this year."

The guy who wrote that must have the record for being wrong.
You don't think it would be interesting if Philly makes the playoffs this year?  I think it would be super interesting and I'm pretty much always right.

For starters, you should change the avatar.

Aren't you the guy that had Brooklyn winning forty games and a thread watch for a Celtics' lottery pick?
For starters, I've changed my avatar per your suggestion.

Secondly, no.  I never had Brooklyn winning 40 games.  I predicted Brooklyn would be a bottom 5 team.

And yes, I agree it's unlikely that Philly makes the playoffs this year.  That's why it would be very interesting if they did.

That's a blatant lie
Wrong.  See the Brooklyn thread for clarity.  We talked about in depth.  I was always a believer that Brooklyn would finish in the bottom 5.  Call Sean Hannity. 

Let's keep this thread focused on the Sixers.

i honestly cant tell anymore whether youre joking or not.

I wouldn't count on Brooklyn sucking.  They finished the season strong.  Brook Lopez and Thad Young made a difference.  I think our pick from them will end up in the 12-17 range.

was last year all a joke? or is today's rather long (and fun) discussion in the nets thread a joke? or are they both jokes? or was neither a joke?

im confused now. larbrd, whatever you did last year, do it again this year. it got us a top 3 pick, so maybe you really are the key to our franchise after all.
I could very well see the Hawks... starting Taurean Prince at the 3, who is already better than Crowder, imo.

you vs. the guy she tells you not to worry about