Noel on Sixers having three centers: "It doesn't make any sense."

[walker834]

I'll use the stevens analogy that the league is going to be about elite players still but it's going to take a special team to change the league. 

The way the celtics are set up we have Isaiah, Horford, guys like Bradley and Crowder and Smart and Brown and KO and others.

I'm not saying noel is absolutely it but there are young teams in the league like Minny and Philly who have big time prospects who are going to impact the league.

It's interesting watching Brown go against a guy like Simmons in summer league. Simmons is a much more hyped prospect but Brown actually won that battle.  It was summer league.

Our team is set up completely differently.  It's set up with parts and players who do elite things in different ways.  We have Isaiah and Horford and young talent but our players compliment one another.  WE also have a good coach.

Adding a guy like NOel to me is not the end all be all but having him as a part to go with someone else where we have Horford and someone else and a guy like Noel. With Crowder and Brown and Bradley and Smart and Isaiah and KO and whoever else.  It's abotu talent but it's also about a team that fits together and can overwhelm more talented players.

Amir is ok and a vet but Noel would just give us a bit extra there and someone who does elite things.  I still think we'd need another big man too.

People expecting this team to completely change what we are doing also aren't really getting it.

I agree next years pick is valuable and we could find someone there too but just looking at the draft, I don't think it's that easy to say Noel would not be worth it.

We'd still have the 18 pick and cap space.  I'm not saying Noel is it either 100 percent.

[walker834]

Noel says the sixers having 3 centers doesnt make any sense.  What if we did and a cast and coach that does make sense?  Would that work for him?

If Noel sucks that's different but if he doesn't that's good.  Noel, Horford, KO and whoever else we add to go with Crowder and brown and Isaiah and Bradley and Smart. That makes sense.

I realize next years draft is valuable and noel isn't the end all be all here but just another way to look at it.

I get we could build a totally different way and utilizing next years pick in a different way just something to think about.

I just realized I capitalized WE and NO el too.  That's kind of funny.  It wasn't even on purpose either.

I get the point is to have these assets moving forward and next years draft is important and we have 18 as well.  It's just one way to look at it.

[alldaboston]

You are overvaluing next years draft. If Noel sucks sure.. If he is a player that is going to play here and improve and be a part of things and a legit shotblocker for us no.

there'll be other shot blockers out there, guys that we can land with other picks we own. we dont have to trade for noel just because hes available and just because he was a high draft pick and just because hes from boston. that stuff doesnt matter. is he enough of an upgrade, and is he worthy of a max contract? maybe to the first, but definitely NO to the second question. id rather take my chances with a chance at a kid who can be a legit offensive stud and overall star in this league for years in next years draft than Noel. (that, or trading the pick and other guys we have for an immediate upgrade, like butler or boogie or someone who impacts the game on both sides of the court, unlike noel).

[walker834]

I can't really argue with that.  I'm not as sold on next years draft as some  yet though. Or Boogie. Obviously that would be huge though but Boogie has issues too.  I really like him too.  An argument can obviously be made there but can we even get him? And this is of the assumption we can really get someone like that next year.  Shotblockers can be found. I definately agree there. Noel is pretty elite that way though.  It's not as simple as saying we will find that guy.

I don't want to sell ourselves short here.  I'm hesitant moving for Noel for that reason.

Having the 18 and cap space even still definately makes me think about it. If Noel is a piece that way and we can still do that too that's my thinking.

Next years draft is important.  I don't  question that.  I'm done for the night though. Been  rambling here for a while. There aren't many trades I like and Noel is interesting.

[walker834]

One thing though Isaiah and Horford can score.  Brown is developing.  We have Bradley and an assortment of guys and can still add another piece to that.  It's more about having the right pieces to me where having better supporting players and a system where we score points but are elite defensively underneath it all is big to me.

We don't really have that prime scorer but Isaiah.  We just added Horford.  Brown is going to be a closer too even if he just goes to the hoop at first. Having an elite supporting cast and defense to support our scoring is big.

We scored a lot of points last year.  Our defense was good but surprisingly we lacked a shot blocker.  We added Horford who will help both ends.

TEams shut us down in the playoffs because Isaiah they concentrated on him we have Horford this year and Brown.  Plus Gerald Green and adding another defensive piece would not be bad.  We'd still have room to make more moves too.

We were also missing Bradley and Crowder last year which didn't help.  I'm not sure with the addition of Horford and Green that will be an issue this year.

Horford and Noel could be pretty devastating with the other offensvely geared big men we have like KO and whoever else we add.  Yab is also an offensive player.  We have Zizic too who can really run the floor.

It's different than KG and Perk but a lot of fans like AL J and I don't know.   Perk fit with  KG.  Horford and Noel is different but interesting with the right supporting cast.

[Csfan1984]

Even if Nets pick is 5-8 range isn't Jarret Allen a better prospect than Noel. Makes no sense to even think about dealing the Nets 2017

[LarBrd33]

Noel for the 17 pick makes sense to me because it's a pg heavy draft that doesnt necessarily help us and we could use an elite shotblocker.

I mean, sure, you could buy a 5$ foot long with a 50$ bill and walk away without your change... but why would you?

TP. This is probably the best and most simple way to explain it.

in a way, what he's saying makes some sense.  First, you have to accept the premise that Noel has a chance to be a defensive player of the year candidate and spend a decade anchoring a team's defense.  That premise isn't for everyone, but a lot of folks agree it's possible.  Then the question becomes what's the % chance the 2017 Brooklyn pick ends up a better or more impactful NBA player than Noel.  First, there's no guarantee the pick will end up in a desirable range.  Second there's no guarantee the player available with be seen as a special prospect (kinda like how we ended up with the 3rd pick this year in a two player draft, and some fans were disgusted that we reached for a player they felt had minimal potential).  Third, even if we land a desirable pick and are able to select a special prospect, there's no guarantee that player will develop into anything nearly as good as what nerlens Noel can become.

So in that sense, his suggestion of Rozier + the 2017 Brooklyn pick for Noel has some logic to it.

That said, when you factor in our other possible trade options with the pick as the season progresses, and the potential to draft a superstar, and contract situations, etc.  It makes less sense.  Also, I'm still not totally buying that Noel is dramatically more valuable than Okafor.  Reportedly, Philly turned down our offer built around the 2016 pick for Okafor at the trade deadline.  I lost my train of thought on how that connects to anything I just wrote, but I'm including it anyways because I suspect most people don't read the majority of my posts and its always fun to see that Okafor fact create a massive logic paradox that basically breaks the popular narrative in every silly thread like this.  Also, I'm trying to increase my WPM to keep up with walker and at some point I cracked a barrier where I was typing faster than my mind can process thoughts and I just started spewing words that make little sense when connected together.

[LarBrd33]

Even if Nets pick is 5-8 range isn't Jarret Allen a better prospect than Noel. Makes no sense to even think about dealing the Nets 2017

thats a good question. Is he?

[walker834]

Even if Nets pick is 5-8 range isn't Jarret Allen a better prospect than Noel. Makes no sense to even think about dealing the Nets 2017

thats a good question. Is he?

I don't think so.  Also Noel may be able be signed where he fits within our cap situation where we can still add other players.  There are only so many roster spots here.

This is what I mean about having vision though.  I'd rather the better player and pay him where we have better parts and can still go out and get someone else.  Having 5 guys who can all score and cant play defense a nd all want max money doesnt make sense either.

Jarrett Allen would be a rookie. Noel has 3 years under his belt.  He wouldnt make the kind of impact Noel would here. Not even close.

[Csfan1984]

Even if Nets pick is 5-8 range isn't Jarret Allen a better prospect than Noel. Makes no sense to even think about dealing the Nets 2017

thats a good question. Is he?

I don't think so.  Also Noel may be able be signed where he fits within our cap situation where we can still add other players.  There are only so many roster spots here.

This is what I mean about having vision though.  I'd rather the better player and pay him where we have better parts and can still go out and get someone else.  Having 5 guys who can all score and cant play defense a nd all want max money doesnt make sense either.

Jarrett Allen would be a rookie. Noel has 3 years under his belt.  He wouldnt make the kind of impact Noel would here. Not even close.

Of course not immediate impact but long term. The team can think that long term because it's mixed with some good young talent. Also have you guys even seen the videos on Allen before posting? I know the PGs and SFs are getting all the early hype but Allen is pretty incredible for such a young age and being a big man. He is a decent defender and has good touch around the basket. Give him three years and he would very likely be an overall better player given Noel does two things only. Defend and roll to the basket.

[walker834]

Honestly I don't see it with Jarret Allen.  He could be good but I don't think he is in Noels class. Noel could suck too if he doesnt utilize his talents but he's much more talented than Allen.  Allen strikes me as kind of overrated. Could be wrong there too.

Like i was saying yeah shotblockers can be found but Elite ones that are actually worth playing are not. 

Jarrett Allen strikes me as a very average rotation player if that who wouldnt even be worth playing here.

I could be missing someone in next years draft but it's not a strong big man draft.

I'm more just trying to look at the reality of it here.  Noel is possibly available and it's going to take something like that to get him without disrupting our team overly.

[walker834]

I also think josh jackson, dennis smith and harry giles how much they help us is questionable. None of those guys is durant.  Dennis Smith is real good and the most solid pick. Giles could be kobe at pf  but he has issues himself.  He strikes me more like carmelo possibly but could bust.  It's not a bad draft. There is talent at the top but I dont think its premium talent.  It's overrated talent minus Dennis Smith who is just a really good pg. I havent looked at every player either.  But it's mostly pgs and a few other guys.

This is the problem with the consensus is a lot of people just say high pick. Yeah it has value that way but what the value of it actually is is different.  People can say oh a top pick can land you lebron all they want.  Yeah it can.  But that's not the reality of it.

I hear these mindsets on talk radio all the time and it drives me nuts.  I need to shut it off because i'm a smart guy and it's a waste of life.

Have the celtics hired me yet? I applied when i was a kid and got a call back and everything but i was a kid and they didnt know my genius.

[walker834]

Jarrett Allen is a very young player.  He could be good. He's pretty fluid and has some tim duncan to his game but he's very young. He also could be John henson.  We have time. I havent looked at him a ton.  He has talent.

If we actually make the pick it will probably be someone like that who is overlooked vs taking a pg.

Saying he is tim duncan at this point is a bit much though.  Or even on Noels level. 

Okafor was really good and even he isn't on Tim Duncans level.

Jarrett Allen is more Marquisse Chriss at this point than anything else. Ivan Rabb has similar potential and I don't see these guys as that elite at this point.

There's potential a guy like whiteside could be found there I'm not even sure I see that.  Noel is elite defensively and better than a lot of guys on the defensive end.  He isn't Embiid but he's up there.

If Noel is going to be marcus camby and injured and lazy that's different but Marcus Camby was really good for a long time even still.

I feel like Noel defensively can be the best defensive guy in the league if he reaches his potential.   Outside of Anthony Davis or a guy like that. Noel is pretty good.

Allen looks more in line with Willie Kauley stein and guys like that and he's actually much skinnier.

[LarBrd33]

Even if Nets pick is 5-8 range isn't Jarret Allen a better prospect than Noel. Makes no sense to even think about dealing the Nets 2017

thats a good question. Is he?

I don't think so.  Also Noel may be able be signed where he fits within our cap situation where we can still add other players.  There are only so many roster spots here.

This is what I mean about having vision though.  I'd rather the better player and pay him where we have better parts and can still go out and get someone else.  Having 5 guys who can all score and cant play defense a nd all want max money doesnt make sense either.

Jarrett Allen would be a rookie. Noel has 3 years under his belt.  He wouldnt make the kind of impact Noel would here. Not even close.

So, you'd say people are underrating Noel as a prospect and overrating the options available in the 2017 draft? 

Even if that's true, which it very well may be, I still think contracts play into this.  And the fact that the Brooklyn pick (if it continues to look like a top 5 pick throughout the season) will have a lot more trade value than Nerlens Noel. 

I support your trade if you think Noel is the missing piece between a 55 win also-ran and a world-beating defensive team that can actually take down the Warriors - which I doubt it could.

[Donoghus]

Noel is not the missing piece to put this Celtics team over the top. 

It'd be absolutely nuts to move BKN '17 alone for him, nevermind BKN '17 + change.