Woj: Sixers plan on moving one of Noel or Okafor "eventually"

[TheFlex]

I wonder if Chicago could be a big player for Okafor. Hometown kid with star potential, whose game would fit nicely alongside Taj Gibson and Bobby Portis. But what does Chicago have to give? Would McDermott, Denzel Valentine and two future 1sts (2017 SAC 1 prot. 1-10 + future CHI 1?) do it?

[LarBrd33]

I wonder if Chicago could be a big player for Okafor. Hometown kid with star potential, whose game would fit nicely alongside Taj Gibson and Bobby Portis. But what does Chicago have to give? Would McDermott, Denzel Valentine and two future 1sts (2017 SAC 1 prot. 1-10 + future CHI 1?) do it?

Yeah I've heard Chicago has interest.  That's an interesting idea in the pennies on the dollar sense, because McDermott would probably be a huge help to what Philly wants.  They need shooting.  That's at least a plausible deal.

[TheFlex]

I wonder if Chicago could be a big player for Okafor. Hometown kid with star potential, whose game would fit nicely alongside Taj Gibson and Bobby Portis. But what does Chicago have to give? Would McDermott, Denzel Valentine and two future 1sts (2017 SAC 1 prot. 1-10 + future CHI 1?) do it?

Yeah I've heard Chicago has interest.  That's an interesting idea in the pennies on the dollar sense, because McDermott would probably be a huge help to what Philly wants.  They need shooting.  That's at least a plausible deal.

Yeah, talent wise, it's a little bit like suggesting that Philly would accept, say, Olynyk + Rozier + 2 future BOS 1sts for Okafor, which they wouldn't. But I think McDermott and Valentine are a better fit with respect to Philly's needs, and the SAC 1 probably has more value than an additional BOS 1. One could argue that combined, McDermott and Valentine have more overall potential than Olynyk + Rozier while projecting to be equally as productive this season.

[LarBrd33]

I wonder if Chicago could be a big player for Okafor. Hometown kid with star potential, whose game would fit nicely alongside Taj Gibson and Bobby Portis. But what does Chicago have to give? Would McDermott, Denzel Valentine and two future 1sts (2017 SAC 1 prot. 1-10 + future CHI 1?) do it?

Yeah I've heard Chicago has interest.  That's an interesting idea in the pennies on the dollar sense, because McDermott would probably be a huge help to what Philly wants.  They need shooting.  That's at least a plausible deal.

Yeah, talent wise, it's a little bit like suggesting that Philly would accept, say, Olynyk + Rozier + 2 future BOS 1sts for Okafor, which they wouldn't. But I think McDermott and Valentine are a better fit with respect to Philly's needs, and the SAC 1 probably has more value than an additional BOS 1. One could argue that combined, McDermott and Valentine have more overall potential than Olynyk+ Rozier while projecting to be equally productive this season.

SOme people are really high on McDermott.  According to The Tiers™, he entered the league as a better prospect than Buddy Hield (McDermott was a Tier 3 like Jaylen Brown.  Hield was a Tier 4).  He shot 45% from the field last season and 43% from three.  He could be a break-out candidate in year three with enough minutes... and with how Philly probably wants to build their roster (Simmons as the point guard), McDermott would probably make sense as a target for them.   I wonder if some kind of McDermott package for Noel would make more sense.  With Joakim Noah gone, Chicago might want a new pure rim protector. 

[BDeCosta26]

yea you have said that a few hundred times. Why not contribute by saying what teams you think would want him and would give a decent price for him?

Other than Boston (who reportedly was turned down when they offered a major package built around the 2016 Brooklyn pick 7 months ago), my wild guess is that the Suns or Lakers might have some interest.

I don't think anyone has yet offered an acceptable package by Philly's standards.  Otherwise he'd be gone already.

To your point about perception/supposed trade value dropping, I guess that just proves how quickly opinions can shift.  Last year Okafor won a National Championship as a Freshman and was widely believed to be one of the three best prospects in the draft.   Now suddenly we have people like you who think he's worth peanuts.   Philly would be wise to wait until next season to see if these fickle opinions shift back in the other direction.

So the Suns would presumably be giving up on Len in this scenario and possibly risking that Okafor and Bender could play together long term? Len was creeping up on averaging a double double the second half of the season and is 23 right now. Would it be worth them presumably moving other assets and Len to risk Okafor? That seems like a tough sell.

Are the Lakers going to give up Randle in this deal? It seems doubtful those two could play together much at all. Although I personally don't think Randle is a longterm star.

i still think Okafor for d'Angelo Russell might make sense for both teams.

that's the 76er pipe dream that's for sure

glad someone finally agrees with me that D'Angelo Russell looks like a future superstar.

Future superstar? That's a bit much. But he did play pretty well whenever Kobe wasn't around, and I think he's got a solid future in this league.

However, that's the reason LA won't be trading him for Okafor. Russell has a skillset that can fit with a bunch of different play-styles. Okafor doesnt. The idea that LA would trade the guy they took INSTEAD of Okafor, for Okafor, is ridiculous. Never gonna happen. If Philly wants to trade Okafor for Larry Nance Jr. And Clarkson, then maybe. But he's not worth D'Angelo Russell, the same way he isn't worth Jaylen Brown.

I know you love you some Okafor LB, but he's just not very valuable around the league. And of Philly goes into this season with both him and Noel, his value will continue to plummet. Playing in Philly is seriously exposing all of Jahlil's flaws and accentuating none of his strengths. If they don't wanna take a Rozier/Hunter/2nd rounder kinda package, he'll just continue to lose trade value.

Honestly I think that's all kinds of ridiculous.  It was his rookie season.  He's 20 years old.  Yeah, the guy won a national championship last year, proved to be an incredible prospect, made all-rookie 1st team while averaging 17 points efficiently on a dumpster-fire of a roster, but the idea that he's a finished product who should be treated like a 28 year old veteran is all kinds of ridiculous.  He already was showing improvement last year. His floor is Al Jefferson.  Maybe that's all he ever becomes, but it makes no sense to insist that's the only route he can possibly take.  It's kind of bizarre to me that people focus on the flaws of a 20 year old stud, but overlook the flaws of someone like our very own Marcus Smart.  He's had a disappointing start and is coming off a historically bad shooting season after regressing his second season - yet there's literally someone in this thread who thinks Philly would be lucky to get Smart for Okafor.  It makes no sense.

There's a lot of young guys around the league I'd be excited about acquiring.  I'd love to snag Okafor.   He has major star potential.  I'd obviously love that to happen in Boston instead of Philly.

His perceived trade value could skyrocket as quickly as people claim it plummeted.

Sure it could, but it's not gonna happen in Philly. Not with Noel, Simmons and Embiid playing next to him. Those guys are the exact opposite of a cast that fits Okafor's game. And playing next to a Noel or a Simmons just exacerbates Okafor's weaknesses. If they're gonna hold out for a better offer than that Nance/Clarkson kind of package they're gonna have a harder and harder time trying to trade him. You can believe in Okafor all you want, but that situation in Philly is toxic for him, and it's troubling for the new regime in terms of what they can get back for a 3rd overall pick that just finished his rookie year.

As far as the actual player goes, I don't think anyone is treating him like a 9 year vet. Jefferson was a better player in his prime than Okafor was last year, by far, so I'm not so sure Al is the "floor" for Okafor. But regardless, the thing is is that you can't just look at a guy and say "Hey, look at his raw stats and his age, has gonna have to improve, he'll be a star!". That ignored everything basketball related to this argument. Okafor's weaknesses are very troublesome. He's so poor at certain key aspects of the game that it seems nearly impossible that he improves on them to the point where he becomes a superstar. On top of that, his skill set is one that needs to be designed around in order to have it reach his full potential. Unfortunately, his talent at this point doesn't justify most teams changing they're entire systems for Jahlil Okafor. That won't happen until he can prove himself a legitimate two-way player. That's not gonna happen until he proves he can actually switch on defense for a play or two. That's just not gonna happen in Philly, no matter what.

Love Okafor all you want, but if Okafor is going to reach the potential you think he has, it's not gonna be able to happen for the Sixers. And if the situation in Philly is so uncondusive to his success that he needs to leave there to have a hope of reaching that potential, then Philly is going to realize at some point soon that they're just not gonna get equal value for him. That's the price of taking 3 centers at the top of the lottery 3 years in a row, knowing you won't be able to play them together. IMO, they should've taken the best possible deal they would've gotten for him at the draft, because his value only gets lower from here, especially is Embiid actually plays.

[TheFlex]

I wonder if Chicago could be a big player for Okafor. Hometown kid with star potential, whose game would fit nicely alongside Taj Gibson and Bobby Portis. But what does Chicago have to give? Would McDermott, Denzel Valentine and two future 1sts (2017 SAC 1 prot. 1-10 + future CHI 1?) do it?

Yeah I've heard Chicago has interest.  That's an interesting idea in the pennies on the dollar sense, because McDermott would probably be a huge help to what Philly wants.  They need shooting.  That's at least a plausible deal.

Yeah, talent wise, it's a little bit like suggesting that Philly would accept, say, Olynyk + Rozier + 2 future BOS 1sts for Okafor, which they wouldn't. But I think McDermott and Valentine are a better fit with respect to Philly's needs, and the SAC 1 probably has more value than an additional BOS 1. One could argue that combined, McDermott and Valentine have more overall potential than Olynyk+ Rozier while projecting to be equally productive this season.

SOme people are really high on McDermott.  According to The Tiers™, he entered the league as a better prospect than Buddy Hield (McDermott was a Tier 3 like Jaylen Brown.  Hield was a Tier 4).  He shot 45% from the field last season and 43% from three.  He could be a break-out candidate in year three with enough minutes... and with how Philly probably wants to build their roster (Simmons as the point guard), McDermott would probably make sense as a target for them.   I wonder if some kind of McDermott package for Noel would make more sense.  With Joakim Noah gone, Chicago might want a new pure rim protector.

Epic troll and fair point all in one. TP.

[LarBrd33]

yea you have said that a few hundred times. Why not contribute by saying what teams you think would want him and would give a decent price for him?

Other than Boston (who reportedly was turned down when they offered a major package built around the 2016 Brooklyn pick 7 months ago), my wild guess is that the Suns or Lakers might have some interest.

I don't think anyone has yet offered an acceptable package by Philly's standards.  Otherwise he'd be gone already.

To your point about perception/supposed trade value dropping, I guess that just proves how quickly opinions can shift.  Last year Okafor won a National Championship as a Freshman and was widely believed to be one of the three best prospects in the draft.   Now suddenly we have people like you who think he's worth peanuts.   Philly would be wise to wait until next season to see if these fickle opinions shift back in the other direction.

So the Suns would presumably be giving up on Len in this scenario and possibly risking that Okafor and Bender could play together long term? Len was creeping up on averaging a double double the second half of the season and is 23 right now. Would it be worth them presumably moving other assets and Len to risk Okafor? That seems like a tough sell.

Are the Lakers going to give up Randle in this deal? It seems doubtful those two could play together much at all. Although I personally don't think Randle is a longterm star.

i still think Okafor for d'Angelo Russell might make sense for both teams.

that's the 76er pipe dream that's for sure

glad someone finally agrees with me that D'Angelo Russell looks like a future superstar.

Future superstar? That's a bit much. But he did play pretty well whenever Kobe wasn't around, and I think he's got a solid future in this league.

However, that's the reason LA won't be trading him for Okafor. Russell has a skillset that can fit with a bunch of different play-styles. Okafor doesnt. The idea that LA would trade the guy they took INSTEAD of Okafor, for Okafor, is ridiculous. Never gonna happen. If Philly wants to trade Okafor for Larry Nance Jr. And Clarkson, then maybe. But he's not worth D'Angelo Russell, the same way he isn't worth Jaylen Brown.

I know you love you some Okafor LB, but he's just not very valuable around the league. And of Philly goes into this season with both him and Noel, his value will continue to plummet. Playing in Philly is seriously exposing all of Jahlil's flaws and accentuating none of his strengths. If they don't wanna take a Rozier/Hunter/2nd rounder kinda package, he'll just continue to lose trade value.

Honestly I think that's all kinds of ridiculous.  It was his rookie season.  He's 20 years old.  Yeah, the guy won a national championship last year, proved to be an incredible prospect, made all-rookie 1st team while averaging 17 points efficiently on a dumpster-fire of a roster, but the idea that he's a finished product who should be treated like a 28 year old veteran is all kinds of ridiculous.  He already was showing improvement last year. His floor is Al Jefferson.  Maybe that's all he ever becomes, but it makes no sense to insist that's the only route he can possibly take.  It's kind of bizarre to me that people focus on the flaws of a 20 year old stud, but overlook the flaws of someone like our very own Marcus Smart.  He's had a disappointing start and is coming off a historically bad shooting season after regressing his second season - yet there's literally someone in this thread who thinks Philly would be lucky to get Smart for Okafor.  It makes no sense.

There's a lot of young guys around the league I'd be excited about acquiring.  I'd love to snag Okafor.   He has major star potential.  I'd obviously love that to happen in Boston instead of Philly.

His perceived trade value could skyrocket as quickly as people claim it plummeted.

Sure it could, but it's not gonna happen in Philly.

Yeah obviously the more one or two of those guys flourish, the less opportunity there will for others.   But with Simmons playing PG and Saric potentially being a SF, there's no reason Okafor, Noel and Embiid can't all get 30 minutes per night (96 minutes to split at the PF/C positions).  And if the team starts to show some success, Okafor could absolutely see his stock rise.  Look up some historical bigs to see the kind of leaps they made from year 1 to 2.  Anthony Davis averaged 13 points as a rookie and 21 points his second year.   The fact that Okafor averaged 17 points efficiently despite the fact he had a historically bad supporting cast is pretty crazy.  He could average 25+ points next season and it wouldn't stun me.

Saw a stat that showed that something like 60-70% of Towns and Porzingis offense came off assists while Okafor only had 30% of his shots come off assists.  That's mainly because Okafor's supporting cast was garbage and he had to create the majority of his own offense while frequently being double teamed.  Imagine how he'll play with some actual competent NBA players next to him and a gifted passer like Simmons creating offense for him.   There's actually a fairly good chance that Okafor will look dramatically improved next season.  If I was Philly, there's no way I'd make a move until seeing how these guys play.  Embiid supposedly has the ability to step out to three, so they might find that playing Okafor and Embiid together is an old-school beast front court that actually works.  Sure, in that scenario it probably means Noel is their defensive 6th man, but that's something they'll have to experiment with to find out.

[LarBrd33]

I wonder if Chicago could be a big player for Okafor. Hometown kid with star potential, whose game would fit nicely alongside Taj Gibson and Bobby Portis. But what does Chicago have to give? Would McDermott, Denzel Valentine and two future 1sts (2017 SAC 1 prot. 1-10 + future CHI 1?) do it?

Yeah I've heard Chicago has interest.  That's an interesting idea in the pennies on the dollar sense, because McDermott would probably be a huge help to what Philly wants.  They need shooting.  That's at least a plausible deal.

Yeah, talent wise, it's a little bit like suggesting that Philly would accept, say, Olynyk + Rozier + 2 future BOS 1sts for Okafor, which they wouldn't. But I think McDermott and Valentine are a better fit with respect to Philly's needs, and the SAC 1 probably has more value than an additional BOS 1. One could argue that combined, McDermott and Valentine have more overall potential than Olynyk+ Rozier while projecting to be equally productive this season.

SOme people are really high on McDermott.  According to The Tiers™, he entered the league as a better prospect than Buddy Hield (McDermott was a Tier 3 like Jaylen Brown.  Hield was a Tier 4).  He shot 45% from the field last season and 43% from three.  He could be a break-out candidate in year three with enough minutes... and with how Philly probably wants to build their roster (Simmons as the point guard), McDermott would probably make sense as a target for them.   I wonder if some kind of McDermott package for Noel would make more sense.  With Joakim Noah gone, Chicago might want a new pure rim protector.

Epic troll and fair point all in one. TP.

I'd actually love to have McDermott on the Celtics.   Did you see when he torched the Celtic's Sister Squad while wearing our uniform?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLZheaytseQ

He'd be a good fit in Brad's system.

[celticsclay]

yea you have said that a few hundred times. Why not contribute by saying what teams you think would want him and would give a decent price for him?

Other than Boston (who reportedly was turned down when they offered a major package built around the 2016 Brooklyn pick 7 months ago), my wild guess is that the Suns or Lakers might have some interest.

I don't think anyone has yet offered an acceptable package by Philly's standards.  Otherwise he'd be gone already.

To your point about perception/supposed trade value dropping, I guess that just proves how quickly opinions can shift.  Last year Okafor won a National Championship as a Freshman and was widely believed to be one of the three best prospects in the draft.   Now suddenly we have people like you who think he's worth peanuts.   Philly would be wise to wait until next season to see if these fickle opinions shift back in the other direction.

So the Suns would presumably be giving up on Len in this scenario and possibly risking that Okafor and Bender could play together long term? Len was creeping up on averaging a double double the second half of the season and is 23 right now. Would it be worth them presumably moving other assets and Len to risk Okafor? That seems like a tough sell.

Are the Lakers going to give up Randle in this deal? It seems doubtful those two could play together much at all. Although I personally don't think Randle is a longterm star.

i still think Okafor for d'Angelo Russell might make sense for both teams.

that's the 76er pipe dream that's for sure

glad someone finally agrees with me that D'Angelo Russell looks like a future superstar.

Future superstar? That's a bit much. But he did play pretty well whenever Kobe wasn't around, and I think he's got a solid future in this league.

However, that's the reason LA won't be trading him for Okafor. Russell has a skillset that can fit with a bunch of different play-styles. Okafor doesnt. The idea that LA would trade the guy they took INSTEAD of Okafor, for Okafor, is ridiculous. Never gonna happen. If Philly wants to trade Okafor for Larry Nance Jr. And Clarkson, then maybe. But he's not worth D'Angelo Russell, the same way he isn't worth Jaylen Brown.

I know you love you some Okafor LB, but he's just not very valuable around the league. And of Philly goes into this season with both him and Noel, his value will continue to plummet. Playing in Philly is seriously exposing all of Jahlil's flaws and accentuating none of his strengths. If they don't wanna take a Rozier/Hunter/2nd rounder kinda package, he'll just continue to lose trade value.

Honestly I think that's all kinds of ridiculous.  It was his rookie season.  He's 20 years old.  Yeah, the guy won a national championship last year, proved to be an incredible prospect, made all-rookie 1st team while averaging 17 points efficiently on a dumpster-fire of a roster, but the idea that he's a finished product who should be treated like a 28 year old veteran is all kinds of ridiculous.  He already was showing improvement last year. His floor is Al Jefferson.  Maybe that's all he ever becomes, but it makes no sense to insist that's the only route he can possibly take.  It's kind of bizarre to me that people focus on the flaws of a 20 year old stud, but overlook the flaws of someone like our very own Marcus Smart.  He's had a disappointing start and is coming off a historically bad shooting season after regressing his second season - yet there's literally someone in this thread who thinks Philly would be lucky to get Smart for Okafor.  It makes no sense.

There's a lot of young guys around the league I'd be excited about acquiring.  I'd love to snag Okafor.   He has major star potential.  I'd obviously love that to happen in Boston instead of Philly.

His perceived trade value could skyrocket as quickly as people claim it plummeted.

There are two problems that constantly happen in this debate. 1) you naturally have a grass is greener disposition with players not on the Celtics. The fact is that smart and Okafor are very similar. Smart is great on defense (especially for a second year player) and awful on offense. Okafor is great on low post offense (especially for a rookie) but awful on defense and mediocre at rebounding. Your readily talk about smarts offense but really rarely dwell on okafors defense when they are equally important.

2) you let playing fantasy basketball impact your evaluation of players. Okafor has great counting stats like points and to leads lesser extend defense. However there are no minus points in fantasy for getting beat on a Backdoor for a layup. Doing a poor switch that leads to a 3 or holding the ball in the post till to late in the shot clock and taking a bad. Smart has great intangibles and non counting stats while Okafor has the opposite. You need to understand this part of basketball better

[LarBrd33]

yea you have said that a few hundred times. Why not contribute by saying what teams you think would want him and would give a decent price for him?

Other than Boston (who reportedly was turned down when they offered a major package built around the 2016 Brooklyn pick 7 months ago), my wild guess is that the Suns or Lakers might have some interest.

I don't think anyone has yet offered an acceptable package by Philly's standards.  Otherwise he'd be gone already.

To your point about perception/supposed trade value dropping, I guess that just proves how quickly opinions can shift.  Last year Okafor won a National Championship as a Freshman and was widely believed to be one of the three best prospects in the draft.   Now suddenly we have people like you who think he's worth peanuts.   Philly would be wise to wait until next season to see if these fickle opinions shift back in the other direction.

So the Suns would presumably be giving up on Len in this scenario and possibly risking that Okafor and Bender could play together long term? Len was creeping up on averaging a double double the second half of the season and is 23 right now. Would it be worth them presumably moving other assets and Len to risk Okafor? That seems like a tough sell.

Are the Lakers going to give up Randle in this deal? It seems doubtful those two could play together much at all. Although I personally don't think Randle is a longterm star.

i still think Okafor for d'Angelo Russell might make sense for both teams.

that's the 76er pipe dream that's for sure

glad someone finally agrees with me that D'Angelo Russell looks like a future superstar.

Future superstar? That's a bit much. But he did play pretty well whenever Kobe wasn't around, and I think he's got a solid future in this league.

However, that's the reason LA won't be trading him for Okafor. Russell has a skillset that can fit with a bunch of different play-styles. Okafor doesnt. The idea that LA would trade the guy they took INSTEAD of Okafor, for Okafor, is ridiculous. Never gonna happen. If Philly wants to trade Okafor for Larry Nance Jr. And Clarkson, then maybe. But he's not worth D'Angelo Russell, the same way he isn't worth Jaylen Brown.

I know you love you some Okafor LB, but he's just not very valuable around the league. And of Philly goes into this season with both him and Noel, his value will continue to plummet. Playing in Philly is seriously exposing all of Jahlil's flaws and accentuating none of his strengths. If they don't wanna take a Rozier/Hunter/2nd rounder kinda package, he'll just continue to lose trade value.

Honestly I think that's all kinds of ridiculous.  It was his rookie season.  He's 20 years old.  Yeah, the guy won a national championship last year, proved to be an incredible prospect, made all-rookie 1st team while averaging 17 points efficiently on a dumpster-fire of a roster, but the idea that he's a finished product who should be treated like a 28 year old veteran is all kinds of ridiculous.  He already was showing improvement last year. His floor is Al Jefferson.  Maybe that's all he ever becomes, but it makes no sense to insist that's the only route he can possibly take.  It's kind of bizarre to me that people focus on the flaws of a 20 year old stud, but overlook the flaws of someone like our very own Marcus Smart.  He's had a disappointing start and is coming off a historically bad shooting season after regressing his second season - yet there's literally someone in this thread who thinks Philly would be lucky to get Smart for Okafor.  It makes no sense.

There's a lot of young guys around the league I'd be excited about acquiring.  I'd love to snag Okafor.   He has major star potential.  I'd obviously love that to happen in Boston instead of Philly.

His perceived trade value could skyrocket as quickly as people claim it plummeted.

There are two problems that constantly happen in this debate. 1) you naturally have a grass is greener disposition with players not on the Celtics. The fact is that smart and Okafor are very similar. Smart is great on defense (especially for a second year player) and awful on offense. Okafor is great on low post offense (especially for a rookie) but awful on defense and mediocre at rebounding. Your readily talk about smarts offense but really rarely dwell on okafors defense when they are equally important.

2) you let playing fantasy basketball impact your evaluation of players. Okafor has great counting stats like points and to leads lesser extend defense. However there are no minus points in fantasy for getting beat on a Backdoor for a layup. Doing a poor switch that leads to a 3 or holding the ball in the post till to late in the shot clock and taking a bad. Smart has great intangibles and non counting stats while Okafor has the opposite. You need to understand this part of basketball better

#1 isn't true.  I remain optimistic Smart will have a breakout season and make up for his disappointing start.  I've consistently praised his defense.  I love his intangibles.  He's like a young Rajon Rondo without the passing ability.  Okafor's defense was lacking, but he's a 20 year old rookie on a fake basketball team.  I can't really judge him until he's playing on a real basketball team.

#2 isn't true.  Don't confuse my infamous god-like mastery of fantasy basketball with a lack of understanding of the real league.  Anyone here who has been on the fool's end of my fake GM supremacy would attest to the fact that my success mainly comes from uncanny manipulation tactics, borderline brainwashing, boundless creativity, and a relentlessly annoying trade offer persistence.  It's not an over-adherence to the scoring system.   That's a Timmy20 narrative.  The scoring systems are always dramatically different and favor different sets of players.  In actuality, the only leagues I've ever participated in here (all behind-woodshed victories for ol LeTard33) offered little challenge mainly because it's so easy to exploit pro-Celtic homeristic bias of the majority of participants.  Side Note:  The only worthy adversary I've ever encountered in a CB-based league is Roy Hobbs.  He gets it.

Look, I'm not ignoring the advanced stats for Okafor in year 1.  I'm just ignoring the advanced stats for Okafor in year 1.  Philly was an unprecedented situation.  I'm holding back judgement of the kid until he's at least playing for a real basketball team with real NBA players by his side.   He is clearly offensively gifted, though.  And there's plenty of reason to believe he can develop into a serviceable defensive player.  He was already showing progress last year on both ends.  I also don't blame him for his lack of motivation.  Kid's a champ and he's forced to participate in some sham of a team that was literally trying to lose games.  Had to have been a horrible experience for a winner like him.   

[chambers]

There's nothing here that wasn't admitted by Bryan Colangelo back in July.  Everyone knows they would prefer to move one of the bigs for an equal value at a position of need.  Nobody has offered equal value at a position of need, so the bigs remain.  Here's actual quotes from Colangelo:

"There's no question you can look at our roster and say we have some unbalance," said Bryan Colangelo. "We're top heavy. We have some good talent there."

"We have to figure out what we're going to do with everybody. When you look at the calls coming in, quite frankly, everyone's trying to poach a big man from us."

"We're not going to make a bad deal just to make a deal. I think we can be a better basketball team if we can distribute that talent better. Maybe take one of those assets and address other needs on the roster. I think right now it's best to say we like all of them, we want to see if we can make the most out of each of them. At the end of the day, the reality says one has to go at some point but only when the deal is right."

So I guess the question is... what if the deal is never right?  Well then maybe you see them bend over and do a pennies on the dollar deal like Okafor for Smart + Rozier, but until then it seems Philly is waiting for someone to give them what they see as equal value.

You never cease to amaze me.

[celticsclay]

There's nothing here that wasn't admitted by Bryan Colangelo back in July.  Everyone knows they would prefer to move one of the bigs for an equal value at a position of need.  Nobody has offered equal value at a position of need, so the bigs remain.  Here's actual quotes from Colangelo:

"There's no question you can look at our roster and say we have some unbalance," said Bryan Colangelo. "We're top heavy. We have some good talent there."

"We have to figure out what we're going to do with everybody. When you look at the calls coming in, quite frankly, everyone's trying to poach a big man from us."

"We're not going to make a bad deal just to make a deal. I think we can be a better basketball team if we can distribute that talent better. Maybe take one of those assets and address other needs on the roster. I think right now it's best to say we like all of them, we want to see if we can make the most out of each of them. At the end of the day, the reality says one has to go at some point but only when the deal is right."

So I guess the question is... what if the deal is never right?  Well then maybe you see them bend over and do a pennies on the dollar deal like Okafor for Smart + Rozier, but until then it seems Philly is waiting for someone to give them what they see as equal value.

You never cease to amaze me.

90% of the board knew what he was doing there at this point...

[LarBrd33]

The only worthy adversary I've ever encountered in a CB-based league is Roy Hobbs.  He gets it.

By "gets it," do you mean you're both complete nutcases

More or less.  I only played in one league with him and it was a lot of fun.  Literally the only person here who ever gave me any sort of challenge.  From what I understand, we both flow on rivers of success fueled by the crybaby tears of our fallen competitors. 

FYI, I'm a fan of mkogav.  I even quote him in my forum signature.

[LarBrd33]

There's nothing here that wasn't admitted by Bryan Colangelo back in July.  Everyone knows they would prefer to move one of the bigs for an equal value at a position of need.  Nobody has offered equal value at a position of need, so the bigs remain.  Here's actual quotes from Colangelo:

"There's no question you can look at our roster and say we have some unbalance," said Bryan Colangelo. "We're top heavy. We have some good talent there."

"We have to figure out what we're going to do with everybody. When you look at the calls coming in, quite frankly, everyone's trying to poach a big man from us."

"We're not going to make a bad deal just to make a deal. I think we can be a better basketball team if we can distribute that talent better. Maybe take one of those assets and address other needs on the roster. I think right now it's best to say we like all of them, we want to see if we can make the most out of each of them. At the end of the day, the reality says one has to go at some point but only when the deal is right."

So I guess the question is... what if the deal is never right?  Well then maybe you see them bend over and do a pennies on the dollar deal like Okafor for Smart + Rozier, but until then it seems Philly is waiting for someone to give them what they see as equal value.

You never cease to amaze me.

90% of the board knew what he was doing there at this point...

I genuinely believe Okafor should have significantly more trade value right now than Smart + Rozier. 

I think that could (and hopefully does) change this season.  Smart needs a break-out year and I'm optimistic he'll do it.  I have hope in Rozier's ability as well.  But based on what Okafor, Smart and Rozier have done thus far - that's a pennies on the dollar deal.  We would have gladly made that move at several points over the past year+. 

[fairweatherfan]

Haha, this thread sure took a turn from tedious to super-interesting in a meaningless Internet kinda way.