'Rozier vs. Smart' Debate - An Interesting perspective

[BDeCosta26]

Of course, I'm just another bozo Jabrone on CB.

But you should believe me when I tell you Smart will be better this year with the ball in his hands a lot. That's his game. A poor shooter? Sure. But he showed well a above average court vision and passing skills last season, and his drive game got much better.

The beauty of Horford is it allows us to get over 50 wins while allowing us to develop Smart/Rozier/Brown with the ball in their hands the way they should be.

[Beat LA]

Terrible article

Yeah, I've never been impressed with that site.  So many pieces are littered with inaccuracies and spelling errors, like, do they even have an editor?  It just seems like a bunch of fans, quite honestly.  Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course, it's just that you'd think that the writers would actually be people who covered the team or something, lol .

[Scintan]

Terrible article

Yeah, I've never been impressed with that site.  So many pieces are littered with inaccuracies and spelling errors, like, do they even have an editor?  It just seems like a bunch of fans, quite honestly.  Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course, it's just that you'd think that the writers would actually be people who covered the team or something, lol .

I've never understood the lack of self-editing at sites like that.  It really seems as if most of the writers are just fleshing out posts they made on some forum.

[Chris22]

Rozier is a point guard, and Smart is a two guard.

[D Dub]

Terrible article

Yeah, I've never been impressed with that site.  So many pieces are littered with inaccuracies and spelling errors, like, do they even have an editor?  It just seems like a bunch of fans, quite honestly.  Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course, it's just that you'd think that the writers would actually be people who covered the team or something, lol .

I've never understood the lack of self-editing at sites like that.  It really seems as if most of the writers are just fleshing out posts they made on some forum.

And that's why celticsblog rules the roost.   Between the salary experts like Roy and Saltlover, the news de-coders like Budweiser & Crown/rocks, the voices of reason like h-jini and nickagenta, plus the pure entertainment factor of Lrbrd33 & coachbo--- this place can't be beat. 

[LarBrd33]

Can we please recognize the entire reason we are having this conversation is that up till now Smart has been a bust?

Any half way decent guard would be forcing this conversation at this point because Smart has simply not lived up to expectations.  He needs to come back with an offensive game about 300% better than he was last year to make this conversation go away.

It's a fair point, Eja.

Summer-League is Summer-League, but you can at least compare players who played on that same level.

2014 Smart - 14.8 points, 4.2 assists, 4.2 rebounds, 2 steals, 0.4 blocks - 29%/26%/83% - 5 games - 29.2mpg

2015 Smart - 16 points, 4.2 assists, 3 rebounds, 2.4 steals,0.4 blocks - 35%/28%/84% in 24.9mpg

2015 Rozier - 12.3 points, 3.9 assists, 3 rebounds, 1.3 steals, 0.1 blocks - 35%/40%/83% in 27.8mpg

2016 Rozier (so far) - 19 points, 5 assists, 6.3 rebounds, 1 steal, 0.3 blocks, 46%/33%/82% - 29.1mpg

Rozer's been better.  But it should be noted that Smart was pretty bad in both his attempts at Summer league.

[jambr380]

Rozier is a point guard, and Smart is a two guard.

I think they are both combo guards, but certainly agree with you defensively.

I think the debate is really between Rozier and AB since they are similar size (I know this contradicts my first point). If Rozier shows he can take the next step, then Bradley can probably be had in the right deal. I don't really want to pay him $20M+ / yr in 2018.

[hwangjini_1]

Rozier is a point guard, and Smart is a two guard.

But that. Is not how CBS sees players. He has them playing different roles and wants them to switch.

[celticmania]

I think Rozier is more talented. Marcus Smart is an outstanding defender (against pg sg and sf.. Don't get carried away saying he can guard 4s and 5s) but he is literally awful offensively. Can't shoot, can't drive, poor handle for an nba guard. He has terrible percentages like awful percentages. Having the ball in his hands more isn't going to change anything. I don't buy the ET excuse. Smart doesn't create off the bounce either way. Rozier and most guards in the league are more talented than Smart but what he brings as far as energy and lock up defense cannot be matched in my opinion. That alone is what makes him valuable. I don't think he'll ever be a good offensive player because he hasn't shown an advanced handle, scoring moves, or any other skills to make me believe he can be. Even his jumper looks awful. He should stick around because of his defense though and I love his defense. Rozier just has so much more game. He can shoot, has good quickness and change of spees and knows how to get buckets. He doesn't finish inside as well as Marcus through traffic though. If he improves that aspect of his game he'll be a very good player

[Scintan]

There seems to be a lot of overreacting about summer league games going on.

[walker834]

I dislike articles like this.  The first line "when marcus was drafted he was seen as the heir to rajon rondo".  I think my exact quote when we drafted him was I more see him as just a basketball player, who can play some pg but play off the ball as well and just do a lot of different things.  He hasn't even had a chance to really play point  yet with  Isaiah and Turner here.  He's been playing more off the ball and has been contributing in other ways.  This might be the first year where he actually gets to really play the point with any consistency.  With Rozier here they are stlll going to be splitting duties.

People see him as a bust because they don't understand his game and the situation of the team.  He's a 3rd year player who played 2 years in college. 

He was mainly a volume scorer in college but a great defender with the ability to improve offensively.

I did not see him as the heir to rajon rondo when we drafted him.  I thought he gave us options there but that Danny might add another pg and he did.

Over time he can grow into more of a pg, but that's what we are doing.

He was drafted because of his overall talent as a basketball player though.  I really like Rozier.  I loved that pick when we made it as well when a lot of people panned it but he is not as talented as Marcus. He's more a scorer yes.

If you listen to Ainge's description of Marcus when he was drafted he said the same things.  He was not drafted to be the heir to Rondo.  Nor was he seen as that.  Maybe in the writers mind he was.  He gave us options there but was more drafted for the reasons stated.  He still does give us options there. He's also a developing pg but has more been utilized in other ways.

I read articles like that with a deadpan look on my face. Did the writer even listen to Danny Ainge?

Marcus isn't a bust. He's exactly what I thought he'd be so far.  That's how the celtics have been utilizing him. If they decide he's the heir to rajon rondo and start playing him more at point then he's that but that's not how they've been utiliziing him.  I expect him to play more point this year. He's had a couple years experience and his production should see a good bump.  That's not how they've been utilizing him early in his career though.  He still needs to improve offensively particularly as a shooter.

[wiley]

You don't have to love Smart, if the shooting numbers bother you...but anyone who calls
him a bust doesn't understand basketball.

[BDeCosta26]

Can we please recognize the entire reason we are having this conversation is that up till now Smart has been a bust?

Any half way decent guard would be forcing this conversation at this point because Smart has simply not lived up to expectations.  He needs to come back with an offensive game about 300% better than he was last year to make this conversation go away.

It's a fair point, Eja.

Summer-League is Summer-League, but you can at least compare players who played on that same level.

2014 Smart - 14.8 points, 4.2 assists, 4.2 rebounds, 2 steals, 0.4 blocks - 29%/26%/83% - 5 games - 29.2mpg

2015 Smart - 16 points, 4.2 assists, 3 rebounds, 2.4 steals,0.4 blocks - 35%/28%/84% in 24.9mpg

2015 Rozier - 12.3 points, 3.9 assists, 3 rebounds, 1.3 steals, 0.1 blocks - 35%/40%/83% in 27.8mpg

2016 Rozier (so far) - 19 points, 5 assists, 6.3 rebounds, 1 steal, 0.3 blocks, 46%/33%/82% - 29.1mpg

Rozer's been better.  But it should be noted that Smart was pretty bad in both his attempts at Summer league.

The reason summer league means almost nothing to the average fan is because the stats that come from it mean absolutely NOTHING.

It's all about the eye test in summer league. There's so many other factors that all you want to see of that the guys your counting on seem a step above the competition.

Everyone eye is different, so where some people see a great performance others see meaningless gameplay, but at least to me Rozier has seemed a cut above in SL, as did Marcus in his limited time last year. Jaylen seemed a cut above the completion in his game, though that's only one game to Rozier's 3.

I'd like to imagine CBS sees a IT/AB/Crowder back-court starting with a Rozier/Smart/Brown group coming off the bench, with Smart being the first guy off the bench, but all that is subject to change.

[alldaboston]

Rozier is a point guard, and Smart is a two guard.

But that. Is not how CBS sees players. He has them playing different roles and wants them to switch.

Valid. I think Brad sees players as either: ball handlers, wings, swings (3/4?), and bigs.

[Scintan]

You don't have to love Smart, if the shooting numbers bother you...but anyone who calls
him a bust doesn't understand basketball.

He's a top 6 pick who has no offensive game at this point in his career.  Call it bust, call it needing development, or call it anything else you want.  In the end, it's all the same thing.