Author Topic: Durant Meeting (Merged)  (Read 204448 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Durant Meeting (Merged)
« Reply #465 on: July 03, 2016, 07:30:36 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
If Westbrook will not commit, then Boston is clearly the superior option vs OKC.

The risk of what the team will be without Westbrook is too great.
even if Westbrook commits, that team is super overrated. Without durant they will struggle to make the playoffs.  They were in the lotto a year ago when durant was hurt.  Garbage supporting cast aside from Adams.

I was just watching an ESPN clip featuring a panel of 5 people, and the majority opinion is that Boston, with Horford and Durant, would be no better than OKC with Westbrook and Durant, but I disagree.

I admit to wearing green goggles, but I think Boston's primary supporting cast of IT, Crowder, Smart, and Bradley is better than Adams, Kanter, Waiters, and Oladipo.
The panel is likely made up of idiots. 

That team has a losing record over the past two seasons when Durant sat.  In 2014-15, they failed to make the playoffs despite Durant playing in 27 games.  It's a mismatched group that doesn't really have chemistry.   They fell short for a reason.  KD has carried them.  And without KD, they will struggle to make the playoffs.   

The mistake people make when considering Oklahoma is that they look at their success (WITH Durant) and assume that means they are a great team.  As I said, that team has a losing record without Durant.  Consider that LeBron James once won 66 games with Mo Williams as the 2nd best player on the Cavs.   Superstars can get you 55+ wins.  Durant is a superstar.  You take Durant off that team, it's garbage.   I've been saying for months now - Durantless Boston is better than Durantless Thunder.  So consider what Durant would do with our vastly superior supporting cast.

Westbrook is a flashy player and puts up boatloads of stats, but he's overrated as hell.  People love him for the same reason people loved Iverson.  All heart.  He puts it all out there.  He is exciting to watch.  But that dude is a ball dominating inefficient chucker who shoots 29% from three and only shot 43% the year Durant was limited due to injury.   Durant's impact helps his efficiency.  Imagine Durant playing with someone like Bradley (45%/36%), Crowder (44%/34%), and Thomas (43%/36%)... not to mention Al Horford (51%/34%)... all of which are better three point shooters than Westbrook and will see a rise in efficiency with a superstar like Durant commanding attention.   It's already been stated that Bradley and Crowder shot 38% on set three pointers.   These guys would flourish with Durant.   Westbrook shot 7-21 in the deciding game against Golden State this season.  He's not a good fit next Durant.  He never has been.  Talent will get you only so far... at some point players need to actually compliment each other well.    Also, while Westbrook gets a lot of assists, he's all the way down to 28th in assist-to-turnover ratio and his usage rate is the highest in the entire league.   That dude is overrated.  Period.  Oh, did we forget to mention that Westbrook already has a foot in Los Angeles?  He's always smelled like a Laker to me. 

And while everyone goes nuts over the fact that Westbrook is a "superstar" and Durant needs to stay with him because he's a "superstar", they show no understanding of how the NBA game actually works.   At some point, there's a cap on how much offense a team can handle.  Look no further than Kevin Love in Cleveland.  Love on his own is capable of leading an offense and scoring 26+ points per night.  Stick him on a team with other ball-dominating players (LeBron and Kyrie), and Love is relegated to standing in the corners waiting for three point shots.   Too much offense isn't necessarily a good thing.   Having talent that actually compliments one another matters.   Isaiah Thomas is a fantastic offensive player.  Durant is an elite offensive player.  Al Horford is a versatile offensive player.   Bradley and Crowder can both flourish next to Durant.   

And while the media goes ga-ga over name star-power they ignore the fact that Boston's team is filled with defensive superstars.  There's two aspects of the NBA.  Boston's guards were incredible on defense.  Avery Bradley is a 1st-Team All-Defense.  Marcus Smart is an otherworldly offensive player who continues to improve.  Jae Crowder is a beast defensively.  Al Horford is one of the best defenders in the league.   Even our rookie, Jaylen Brown, projects to be an excellent defender.  The great thing about that side of the ball is that there isn't a cap on how much elite defense you can have.  Whereas there's only one basketball and having too many scorers has a ceiling, you can never have too many defenders.  They just feed off each other and make the team defense even better.    This team, barring a major injury or some fluke, should easily be a top 3 defensive team next season.  While everyone is losing their minds over big name talent, they ignore the fact that Boston is an elite scorer away from seriously threatening to take the title.  As-is they had enough defensive firepower to give Golden State a harder time than any team in the league during the regular season. 

Much has been made of the Ibaka/Oladipo trade, but that's an overrated move as well.   Oladipo plays the same position as Westbrook.  Last year he lost his starting role in Orlando.  There's a reason they got rid of him.  He was another ball-dominating player who became a black hole offensively for that team.  It wasn't successful.  They found they were better off having a guy like Evan Fournier playing SG (46%/40%) and playing guys like Aaron Gordon and Hezonja more minutes.  Oladipo became the odd man out for a reason.  He's a chucker.   It wouldn't be fun for Durant to play with two Westbrooks.   

Durant is arguably the most offensively gifted player in the NBA.  He needs to be on a team where the ball flows through him and surrounding by players that compliment him.  Bradley, Crowder, Thomas and Horford compliment him.  And that team has a chance to be defensively the best in the entire league.  It's like people forget that in 2008 our offense was actually pretty mediocre (11th in the league).  Defensively, we dominated.   Defense matters. 

Interestingly enough, Boston was top 5 last season in PPG without HOrford or Durant.  Defensively, we were top 13 (better than both OKC and Golden State), but should make a major leap next season as-is, and we'd threaten to be top 3 in both offense and defense next season with Durant on board.

I firmly believe Durant would have a better chance to win in Boston than he does in that terribly managed Oklahoma team.  He's been carrying a lotto team over there.   He'd be joining a Celtic team that projects to win 50+ without him. 

As for Golden State... yeah, going there makes them the favorites, but really that team has nowhere to go but down.  They aren't winning more than 73 games next season.  It's already Steph's team.  Durant would look anticompetitive.  Fans are already turning on the Warriors.  Going there would damage his reputation and likely hurt his career long-term.  He'd just be helping Under Armour's guy stay on top.  It's a bad decision all around.

Spurs are whatever.  Most boring dynasty ever.  I nearly just fell asleep even typing about them.   That Hawaiian star they have, who is too boring to even remember his name, plays the same position as Durant.  If Durant dreams of winning in obscurity, maybe he'd consider going there.  Pop is nearly 70 years old.  Duncan's got a foot out the door.  Most of those guys are old.  Aldridge is a year older than Al Horford.   He could go there and maybe squeeze a title out of that situation, but someone is going to need to play out of position for that to work.  I saw Durant's first professional game ever in Seattle.  They tried playing him at SG.  It was a disaster.  Later, they struggled to find a way to make him and Jeff Green work together.  Poor Jeff Green had to play out of position at PF for several years.   Durant's been through this before.  San Antonio isn't as good a fit as Boston.

Not to mention, Boston is loaded with assets and young guys who will just continue to feed into the roster (or get traded for upgrades) that will continue to improve that team.   Also, they have all the key guys under contract on reasonable deals... a year from now when the cap jumps, they'll have money to add ANOTHER max contract player.

Boston is a legit possibility.  Sure, maybe he gets goaded into joining that garbage OKC team by those baby-eating Seattle-murdering scumbucket hillbillies that own that franchise, but if he knows what's good for him and Boston's group did their job - he'll be coming to the Celtics where he belongs.

Just my opinion tho.
Want more proof Westbrook is overrated as hell?

2013-14 season.  Westbrook was limited to just 46 games.  How do you think the Thunder played without him?  Well for the season, they won 59 games.   

In the 36 games Westbrook missed, the Thunder went 25-11... including a 10 game win streak.   That's a 57 win pace in games Westbrook missed.

So if you're following along.

Thunder without Durant over past two seasons = 37 win Pace
Thunder with Durant = 57 win pace
Thunder without Westbrook = 57 win pace

He's been carrying that team.  Oh, also... in the season Westbrook was limited by injury, Durant efficiency was as stellar as ever.  He also averaged a career high 32 points and 5.5 assists with typical 50%/39%/87% shooting.  Whereas, in the season Durant was injured, Westbrook's efficiency dropped to 42% FG and 29% from three without Durant carrying him.

If I was KD, I'd want to get as far away from that ball-dominating future Laker black hole as possible.  Westbrook doesn't help Durant's efficiency.  His usage is out of control.  He doesn't even necessarily help the Thunder win.  Durant would better off in an offense built around him (go figure - build an offense around arguably the best offensive player in the world) surrounded by high quality defenders and competent shooters.  Not a ball hog who chucks 29% from three.

I sincerely hope part of the 4 hours we had with Durant was spent with Brad showing Durant some advanced analytics that prove just how much he's carrying that THunder team and how weak his supporting cast actually is.   That team would struggle to finish above .500 without him.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 07:41:05 AM by LarBrd33 »

Re: Durant Meeting (Merged)
« Reply #466 on: July 03, 2016, 07:34:20 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
The tell for me: Hearing that Durant's agent had been pitching OKC to Horford yet right after Durant finishes with the Celtics, Horford announces he's coming to Boston. My guess: Durant told Horford that he's coming to Boston if Al's coming to Boston. They agreed Al makes the announcement Saturday, Durant gives Pat Riley the respect he deserves on Sunday, and then the announcement is made on Sunday or Monday.

18, here we come! Maybe 18, 19 and 20, here we come!
Here's hoping...

You gotta watch out for Pat Riley tho...



Yup. Riley always seems to get his guy. I mean why does Miami get to go last anyway?

Talent wise, theyd have the Celtics beat, its South beach, and it undoubtedly would be KDs team.

All that being said, its not a basketball/sports town and that seems to matter to Durant.

He has a really tough decision to make. Every team has clear pros and cons.

I mean weve heard next to nothing on the Spurs meeting and youre talking about probably the most well run organisation in sports over the last 2 decades.
I'm not too worried about the Heat.  Do they even have enough cap space to sign Wade now that they have Whiteside? 

They have 20 million in cap space left.  Are Wade and Durant gonna split it?  10 mil each?   Or are they going to stretch Bosh's contract and trade Dragic?

I just can't see Durant taking LeBron's sloppy seconds.  LeBron left for a reason - they didn't have the supporting cast to win a title with.  The marketed it like he was going home to the Cavs because of Cleveland, but more-so it was because he had a better chance of winning with Kyrie + Love than he did with Wade + Bosh.

I agree with all of that. All terrific points and seem to make sense.

But to your original point...its Riley. And they get to go last! Im just assuming he has figured out some master plan that none of us have considered, and will at least make it compelling for KD.

I begrudgingly respect the hell out of Riley's creativity and ability to make a vision come to life.
Riley's master plan could involve stretching Bosh's contract... maybe moving a package built around Winslow for Jimmy BUtler?  Who knows.  You can't count him out.  Dude is crafty. 

Re: Durant Meeting (Merged)
« Reply #467 on: July 03, 2016, 07:52:43 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6368
  • Tommy Points: 664
If Westbrook will not commit, then Boston is clearly the superior option vs OKC.

The risk of what the team will be without Westbrook is too great.
even if Westbrook commits, that team is super overrated. Without durant they will struggle to make the playoffs.  They were in the lotto a year ago when durant was hurt.  Garbage supporting cast aside from Adams.

I was just watching an ESPN clip featuring a panel of 5 people, and the majority opinion is that Boston, with Horford and Durant, would be no better than OKC with Westbrook and Durant, but I disagree.

I admit to wearing green goggles, but I think Boston's primary supporting cast of IT, Crowder, Smart, and Bradley is better than Adams, Kanter, Waiters, and Oladipo.
The panel is likely made up of idiots. 

That team has a losing record over the past two seasons when Durant sat.  In 2014-15, they failed to make the playoffs despite Durant playing in 27 games.  It's a mismatched group that doesn't really have chemistry.   They fell short for a reason.  KD has carried them.  And without KD, they will struggle to make the playoffs.   

The mistake people make when considering Oklahoma is that they look at their success (WITH Durant) and assume that means they are a great team.  As I said, that team has a losing record without Durant.  Consider that LeBron James once won 66 games with Mo Williams as the 2nd best player on the Cavs.   Superstars can get you 55+ wins.  Durant is a superstar.  You take Durant off that team, it's garbage.   I've been saying for months now - Durantless Boston is better than Durantless Thunder.  So consider what Durant would do with our vastly superior supporting cast.

Westbrook is a flashy player and puts up boatloads of stats, but he's overrated as hell.  People love him for the same reason people loved Iverson.  All heart.  He puts it all out there.  He is exciting to watch.  But that dude is a ball dominating inefficient chucker who shoots 29% from three and only shot 43% the year Durant was limited due to injury.   Durant's impact helps his efficiency.  Imagine Durant playing with someone like Bradley (45%/36%), Crowder (44%/34%), and Thomas (43%/36%)... not to mention Al Horford (51%/34%)... all of which are better three point shooters than Westbrook and will see a rise in efficiency with a superstar like Durant commanding attention.   It's already been stated that Bradley and Crowder shot 38% on set three pointers.   These guys would flourish with Durant.   Westbrook shot 7-21 in the deciding game against Golden State this season.  He's not a good fit next Durant.  He never has been.  Talent will get you only so far... at some point players need to actually compliment each other well.    Also, while Westbrook gets a lot of assists, he's all the way down to 28th in assist-to-turnover ratio and his usage rate is the highest in the entire league.   That dude is overrated.  Period.  Oh, did we forget to mention that Westbrook already has a foot in Los Angeles?  He's always smelled like a Laker to me. 

And while everyone goes nuts over the fact that Westbrook is a "superstar" and Durant needs to stay with him because he's a "superstar", they show no understanding of how the NBA game actually works.   At some point, there's a cap on how much offense a team can handle.  Look no further than Kevin Love in Cleveland.  Love on his own is capable of leading an offense and scoring 26+ points per night.  Stick him on a team with other ball-dominating players (LeBron and Kyrie), and Love is relegated to standing in the corners waiting for three point shots.   Too much offense isn't necessarily a good thing.   Having talent that actually compliments one another matters.   Isaiah Thomas is a fantastic offensive player.  Durant is an elite offensive player.  Al Horford is a versatile offensive player.   Bradley and Crowder can both flourish next to Durant.   

And while the media goes ga-ga over name star-power they ignore the fact that Boston's team is filled with defensive superstars.  There's two aspects of the NBA.  Boston's guards were incredible on defense.  Avery Bradley is a 1st-Team All-Defense.  Marcus Smart is an otherworldly offensive player who continues to improve.  Jae Crowder is a beast defensively.  Al Horford is one of the best defenders in the league.   Even our rookie, Jaylen Brown, projects to be an excellent defender.  The great thing about that side of the ball is that there isn't a cap on how much elite defense you can have.  Whereas there's only one basketball and having too many scorers has a ceiling, you can never have too many defenders.  They just feed off each other and make the team defense even better.    This team, barring a major injury or some fluke, should easily be a top 3 defensive team next season.  While everyone is losing their minds over big name talent, they ignore the fact that Boston is an elite scorer away from seriously threatening to take the title.  As-is they had enough defensive firepower to give Golden State a harder time than any team in the league during the regular season. 

Much has been made of the Ibaka/Oladipo trade, but that's an overrated move as well.   Oladipo plays the same position as Westbrook.  Last year he lost his starting role in Orlando.  There's a reason they got rid of him.  He was another ball-dominating player who became a black hole offensively for that team.  It wasn't successful.  They found they were better off having a guy like Evan Fournier playing SG (46%/40%) and playing guys like Aaron Gordon and Hezonja more minutes.  Oladipo became the odd man out for a reason.  He's a chucker.   It wouldn't be fun for Durant to play with two Westbrooks.   

Durant is arguably the most offensively gifted player in the NBA.  He needs to be on a team where the ball flows through him and surrounding by players that compliment him.  Bradley, Crowder, Thomas and Horford compliment him.  And that team has a chance to be defensively the best in the entire league.  It's like people forget that in 2008 our offense was actually pretty mediocre (11th in the league).  Defensively, we dominated.   Defense matters. 

Interestingly enough, Boston was top 5 last season in PPG without HOrford or Durant.  Defensively, we were top 13 (better than both OKC and Golden State), but should make a major leap next season as-is, and we'd threaten to be top 3 in both offense and defense next season with Durant on board.

I firmly believe Durant would have a better chance to win in Boston than he does in that terribly managed Oklahoma team.  He's been carrying a lotto team over there.   He'd be joining a Celtic team that projects to win 50+ without him. 

As for Golden State... yeah, going there makes them the favorites, but really that team has nowhere to go but down.  They aren't winning more than 73 games next season.  It's already Steph's team.  Durant would look anticompetitive.  Fans are already turning on the Warriors.  Going there would damage his reputation and likely hurt his career long-term.  He'd just be helping Under Armour's guy stay on top.  It's a bad decision all around.

Spurs are whatever.  Most boring dynasty ever.  I nearly just fell asleep even typing about them.   That Hawaiian star they have, who is too boring to even remember his name, plays the same position as Durant.  If Durant dreams of winning in obscurity, maybe he'd consider going there.  Pop is nearly 70 years old.  Duncan's got a foot out the door.  Most of those guys are old.  Aldridge is a year older than Al Horford.   He could go there and maybe squeeze a title out of that situation, but someone is going to need to play out of position for that to work.  I saw Durant's first professional game ever in Seattle.  They tried playing him at SG.  It was a disaster.  Later, they struggled to find a way to make him and Jeff Green work together.  Poor Jeff Green had to play out of position at PF for several years.   Durant's been through this before.  San Antonio isn't as good a fit as Boston.

Not to mention, Boston is loaded with assets and young guys who will just continue to feed into the roster (or get traded for upgrades) that will continue to improve that team.   Also, they have all the key guys under contract on reasonable deals... a year from now when the cap jumps, they'll have money to add ANOTHER max contract player.

Boston is a legit possibility.  Sure, maybe he gets goaded into joining that garbage OKC team by those baby-eating Seattle-murdering scumbucket hillbillies that own that franchise, but if he knows what's good for him and Boston's group did their job - he'll be coming to the Celtics where he belongs.

Just my opinion tho.
Want more proof Westbrook is overrated as hell?

2013-14 season.  Westbrook was limited to just 46 games.  How do you think the Thunder played without him?  Well for the season, they won 59 games.   

In the 36 games Westbrook missed, the Thunder went 25-11... including a 10 game win streak.   That's a 57 win pace in games Westbrook missed.

So if you're following along.

Thunder without Durant over past two seasons = 37 win Pace
Thunder with Durant = 57 win pace
Thunder without Westbrook = 57 win pace

He's been carrying that team.  Oh, also... in the season Westbrook was limited by injury, Durant efficiency was as stellar as ever.  He also averaged a career high 32 points and 5.5 assists with typical 50%/39%/87% shooting.  Whereas, in the season Durant was injured, Westbrook's efficiency dropped to 42% FG and 29% from three without Durant carrying him.

If I was KD, I'd want to get as far away from that ball-dominating future Laker black hole as possible.  Westbrook doesn't help Durant's efficiency.  His usage is out of control.  He doesn't even necessarily help the Thunder win.  Durant would better off in an offense built around him (go figure - build an offense around arguably the best offensive player in the world) surrounded by high quality defenders and competent shooters.  Not a ball hog who chucks 29% from three.

I sincerely hope part of the 4 hours we had with Durant was spent with Brad showing Durant some advanced analytics that prove just how much he's carrying that THunder team and how weak his supporting cast actually is.   That team would struggle to finish above .500 without him.

TP for those posts.  I couldn't agree more.

Re: Durant Meeting (Merged)
« Reply #468 on: July 03, 2016, 07:59:37 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
If Westbrook will not commit, then Boston is clearly the superior option vs OKC.

The risk of what the team will be without Westbrook is too great.
even if Westbrook commits, that team is super overrated. Without durant they will struggle to make the playoffs.  They were in the lotto a year ago when durant was hurt.  Garbage supporting cast aside from Adams.

I was just watching an ESPN clip featuring a panel of 5 people, and the majority opinion is that Boston, with Horford and Durant, would be no better than OKC with Westbrook and Durant, but I disagree.

I admit to wearing green goggles, but I think Boston's primary supporting cast of IT, Crowder, Smart, and Bradley is better than Adams, Kanter, Waiters, and Oladipo.
The panel is likely made up of idiots. 

That team has a losing record over the past two seasons when Durant sat.  In 2014-15, they failed to make the playoffs despite Durant playing in 27 games.  It's a mismatched group that doesn't really have chemistry.   They fell short for a reason.  KD has carried them.  And without KD, they will struggle to make the playoffs.   

The mistake people make when considering Oklahoma is that they look at their success (WITH Durant) and assume that means they are a great team.  As I said, that team has a losing record without Durant.  Consider that LeBron James once won 66 games with Mo Williams as the 2nd best player on the Cavs.   Superstars can get you 55+ wins.  Durant is a superstar.  You take Durant off that team, it's garbage.   I've been saying for months now - Durantless Boston is better than Durantless Thunder.  So consider what Durant would do with our vastly superior supporting cast.

Westbrook is a flashy player and puts up boatloads of stats, but he's overrated as hell.  People love him for the same reason people loved Iverson.  All heart.  He puts it all out there.  He is exciting to watch.  But that dude is a ball dominating inefficient chucker who shoots 29% from three and only shot 43% the year Durant was limited due to injury.   Durant's impact helps his efficiency.  Imagine Durant playing with someone like Bradley (45%/36%), Crowder (44%/34%), and Thomas (43%/36%)... not to mention Al Horford (51%/34%)... all of which are better three point shooters than Westbrook and will see a rise in efficiency with a superstar like Durant commanding attention.   It's already been stated that Bradley and Crowder shot 38% on set three pointers.   These guys would flourish with Durant.   Westbrook shot 7-21 in the deciding game against Golden State this season.  He's not a good fit next Durant.  He never has been.  Talent will get you only so far... at some point players need to actually compliment each other well.    Also, while Westbrook gets a lot of assists, he's all the way down to 28th in assist-to-turnover ratio and his usage rate is the highest in the entire league.   That dude is overrated.  Period.  Oh, did we forget to mention that Westbrook already has a foot in Los Angeles?  He's always smelled like a Laker to me. 

And while everyone goes nuts over the fact that Westbrook is a "superstar" and Durant needs to stay with him because he's a "superstar", they show no understanding of how the NBA game actually works.   At some point, there's a cap on how much offense a team can handle.  Look no further than Kevin Love in Cleveland.  Love on his own is capable of leading an offense and scoring 26+ points per night.  Stick him on a team with other ball-dominating players (LeBron and Kyrie), and Love is relegated to standing in the corners waiting for three point shots.   Too much offense isn't necessarily a good thing.   Having talent that actually compliments one another matters.   Isaiah Thomas is a fantastic offensive player.  Durant is an elite offensive player.  Al Horford is a versatile offensive player.   Bradley and Crowder can both flourish next to Durant.   

And while the media goes ga-ga over name star-power they ignore the fact that Boston's team is filled with defensive superstars.  There's two aspects of the NBA.  Boston's guards were incredible on defense.  Avery Bradley is a 1st-Team All-Defense.  Marcus Smart is an otherworldly offensive player who continues to improve.  Jae Crowder is a beast defensively.  Al Horford is one of the best defenders in the league.   Even our rookie, Jaylen Brown, projects to be an excellent defender.  The great thing about that side of the ball is that there isn't a cap on how much elite defense you can have.  Whereas there's only one basketball and having too many scorers has a ceiling, you can never have too many defenders.  They just feed off each other and make the team defense even better.    This team, barring a major injury or some fluke, should easily be a top 3 defensive team next season.  While everyone is losing their minds over big name talent, they ignore the fact that Boston is an elite scorer away from seriously threatening to take the title.  As-is they had enough defensive firepower to give Golden State a harder time than any team in the league during the regular season. 

Much has been made of the Ibaka/Oladipo trade, but that's an overrated move as well.   Oladipo plays the same position as Westbrook.  Last year he lost his starting role in Orlando.  There's a reason they got rid of him.  He was another ball-dominating player who became a black hole offensively for that team.  It wasn't successful.  They found they were better off having a guy like Evan Fournier playing SG (46%/40%) and playing guys like Aaron Gordon and Hezonja more minutes.  Oladipo became the odd man out for a reason.  He's a chucker.   It wouldn't be fun for Durant to play with two Westbrooks.   

Durant is arguably the most offensively gifted player in the NBA.  He needs to be on a team where the ball flows through him and surrounding by players that compliment him.  Bradley, Crowder, Thomas and Horford compliment him.  And that team has a chance to be defensively the best in the entire league.  It's like people forget that in 2008 our offense was actually pretty mediocre (11th in the league).  Defensively, we dominated.   Defense matters. 

Interestingly enough, Boston was top 5 last season in PPG without HOrford or Durant.  Defensively, we were top 13 (better than both OKC and Golden State), but should make a major leap next season as-is, and we'd threaten to be top 3 in both offense and defense next season with Durant on board.

I firmly believe Durant would have a better chance to win in Boston than he does in that terribly managed Oklahoma team.  He's been carrying a lotto team over there.   He'd be joining a Celtic team that projects to win 50+ without him. 

As for Golden State... yeah, going there makes them the favorites, but really that team has nowhere to go but down.  They aren't winning more than 73 games next season.  It's already Steph's team.  Durant would look anticompetitive.  Fans are already turning on the Warriors.  Going there would damage his reputation and likely hurt his career long-term.  He'd just be helping Under Armour's guy stay on top.  It's a bad decision all around.

Spurs are whatever.  Most boring dynasty ever.  I nearly just fell asleep even typing about them.   That Hawaiian star they have, who is too boring to even remember his name, plays the same position as Durant.  If Durant dreams of winning in obscurity, maybe he'd consider going there.  Pop is nearly 70 years old.  Duncan's got a foot out the door.  Most of those guys are old.  Aldridge is a year older than Al Horford.   He could go there and maybe squeeze a title out of that situation, but someone is going to need to play out of position for that to work.  I saw Durant's first professional game ever in Seattle.  They tried playing him at SG.  It was a disaster.  Later, they struggled to find a way to make him and Jeff Green work together.  Poor Jeff Green had to play out of position at PF for several years.   Durant's been through this before.  San Antonio isn't as good a fit as Boston.

Not to mention, Boston is loaded with assets and young guys who will just continue to feed into the roster (or get traded for upgrades) that will continue to improve that team.   Also, they have all the key guys under contract on reasonable deals... a year from now when the cap jumps, they'll have money to add ANOTHER max contract player.

Boston is a legit possibility.  Sure, maybe he gets goaded into joining that garbage OKC team by those baby-eating Seattle-murdering scumbucket hillbillies that own that franchise, but if he knows what's good for him and Boston's group did their job - he'll be coming to the Celtics where he belongs.

Just my opinion tho.
Want more proof Westbrook is overrated as hell?

2013-14 season.  Westbrook was limited to just 46 games.  How do you think the Thunder played without him?  Well for the season, they won 59 games.   

In the 36 games Westbrook missed, the Thunder went 25-11... including a 10 game win streak.   That's a 57 win pace in games Westbrook missed.

So if you're following along.

Thunder without Durant over past two seasons = 37 win Pace
Thunder with Durant = 57 win pace
Thunder without Westbrook = 57 win pace

He's been carrying that team.  Oh, also... in the season Westbrook was limited by injury, Durant efficiency was as stellar as ever.  He also averaged a career high 32 points and 5.5 assists with typical 50%/39%/87% shooting.  Whereas, in the season Durant was injured, Westbrook's efficiency dropped to 42% FG and 29% from three without Durant carrying him.

If I was KD, I'd want to get as far away from that ball-dominating future Laker black hole as possible.  Westbrook doesn't help Durant's efficiency.  His usage is out of control.  He doesn't even necessarily help the Thunder win.  Durant would better off in an offense built around him (go figure - build an offense around arguably the best offensive player in the world) surrounded by high quality defenders and competent shooters.  Not a ball hog who chucks 29% from three.

I sincerely hope part of the 4 hours we had with Durant was spent with Brad showing Durant some advanced analytics that prove just how much he's carrying that THunder team and how weak his supporting cast actually is.   That team would struggle to finish above .500 without him.

TP for those posts.  I couldn't agree more.

FYI, I just did the math.  Here's Durant's stats in the 35 games he played with Westbrook not playing that season:  32.9 points, 7.3 rebounds, 5.7 assists, 1.2 steals, 51%/41%/89% shooting in 37.6mpg

So essentially, Westbrook has no impact whatsoever on Durant's efficiency.  The media acts like Durant needs Westbrook.  But in reality, Westbrook's effect is similar to Monta Ellis's effect on Steph Curry.   Durant would likely flourish without him in a system that doesn't have a black hole controlling the ball constantly. 

Re: Durant Meeting (Merged)
« Reply #469 on: July 03, 2016, 08:03:15 AM »

Offline trickybilly

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5849
  • Tommy Points: 643
If Westbrook will not commit, then Boston is clearly the superior option vs OKC.

The risk of what the team will be without Westbrook is too great.
even if Westbrook commits, that team is super overrated. Without durant they will struggle to make the playoffs.  They were in the lotto a year ago when durant was hurt.  Garbage supporting cast aside from Adams.

I was just watching an ESPN clip featuring a panel of 5 people, and the majority opinion is that Boston, with Horford and Durant, would be no better than OKC with Westbrook and Durant, but I disagree.

I admit to wearing green goggles, but I think Boston's primary supporting cast of IT, Crowder, Smart, and Bradley is better than Adams, Kanter, Waiters, and Oladipo.
The panel is likely made up of idiots. 

That team has a losing record over the past two seasons when Durant sat.  In 2014-15, they failed to make the playoffs despite Durant playing in 27 games.  It's a mismatched group that doesn't really have chemistry.   They fell short for a reason.  KD has carried them.  And without KD, they will struggle to make the playoffs.   

The mistake people make when considering Oklahoma is that they look at their success (WITH Durant) and assume that means they are a great team.  As I said, that team has a losing record without Durant.  Consider that LeBron James once won 66 games with Mo Williams as the 2nd best player on the Cavs.   Superstars can get you 55+ wins.  Durant is a superstar.  You take Durant off that team, it's garbage.   I've been saying for months now - Durantless Boston is better than Durantless Thunder.  So consider what Durant would do with our vastly superior supporting cast.

Westbrook is a flashy player and puts up boatloads of stats, but he's overrated as hell.  People love him for the same reason people loved Iverson.  All heart.  He puts it all out there.  He is exciting to watch.  But that dude is a ball dominating inefficient chucker who shoots 29% from three and only shot 43% the year Durant was limited due to injury.   Durant's impact helps his efficiency.  Imagine Durant playing with someone like Bradley (45%/36%), Crowder (44%/34%), and Thomas (43%/36%)... not to mention Al Horford (51%/34%)... all of which are better three point shooters than Westbrook and will see a rise in efficiency with a superstar like Durant commanding attention.   It's already been stated that Bradley and Crowder shot 38% on set three pointers.   These guys would flourish with Durant.   Westbrook shot 7-21 in the deciding game against Golden State this season.  He's not a good fit next Durant.  He never has been.  Talent will get you only so far... at some point players need to actually compliment each other well.    Also, while Westbrook gets a lot of assists, he's all the way down to 28th in assist-to-turnover ratio and his usage rate is the highest in the entire league.   That dude is overrated.  Period.  Oh, did we forget to mention that Westbrook already has a foot in Los Angeles?  He's always smelled like a Laker to me. 

And while everyone goes nuts over the fact that Westbrook is a "superstar" and Durant needs to stay with him because he's a "superstar", they show no understanding of how the NBA game actually works.   At some point, there's a cap on how much offense a team can handle.  Look no further than Kevin Love in Cleveland.  Love on his own is capable of leading an offense and scoring 26+ points per night.  Stick him on a team with other ball-dominating players (LeBron and Kyrie), and Love is relegated to standing in the corners waiting for three point shots.   Too much offense isn't necessarily a good thing.   Having talent that actually compliments one another matters.   Isaiah Thomas is a fantastic offensive player.  Durant is an elite offensive player.  Al Horford is a versatile offensive player.   Bradley and Crowder can both flourish next to Durant.   

And while the media goes ga-ga over name star-power they ignore the fact that Boston's team is filled with defensive superstars.  There's two aspects of the NBA.  Boston's guards were incredible on defense.  Avery Bradley is a 1st-Team All-Defense.  Marcus Smart is an otherworldly offensive player who continues to improve.  Jae Crowder is a beast defensively.  Al Horford is one of the best defenders in the league.   Even our rookie, Jaylen Brown, projects to be an excellent defender.  The great thing about that side of the ball is that there isn't a cap on how much elite defense you can have.  Whereas there's only one basketball and having too many scorers has a ceiling, you can never have too many defenders.  They just feed off each other and make the team defense even better.    This team, barring a major injury or some fluke, should easily be a top 3 defensive team next season.  While everyone is losing their minds over big name talent, they ignore the fact that Boston is an elite scorer away from seriously threatening to take the title.  As-is they had enough defensive firepower to give Golden State a harder time than any team in the league during the regular season. 

Much has been made of the Ibaka/Oladipo trade, but that's an overrated move as well.   Oladipo plays the same position as Westbrook.  Last year he lost his starting role in Orlando.  There's a reason they got rid of him.  He was another ball-dominating player who became a black hole offensively for that team.  It wasn't successful.  They found they were better off having a guy like Evan Fournier playing SG (46%/40%) and playing guys like Aaron Gordon and Hezonja more minutes.  Oladipo became the odd man out for a reason.  He's a chucker.   It wouldn't be fun for Durant to play with two Westbrooks.   

Durant is arguably the most offensively gifted player in the NBA.  He needs to be on a team where the ball flows through him and surrounding by players that compliment him.  Bradley, Crowder, Thomas and Horford compliment him.  And that team has a chance to be defensively the best in the entire league.  It's like people forget that in 2008 our offense was actually pretty mediocre (11th in the league).  Defensively, we dominated.   Defense matters. 

Interestingly enough, Boston was top 5 last season in PPG without HOrford or Durant.  Defensively, we were top 13 (better than both OKC and Golden State), but should make a major leap next season as-is, and we'd threaten to be top 3 in both offense and defense next season with Durant on board.

I firmly believe Durant would have a better chance to win in Boston than he does in that terribly managed Oklahoma team.  He's been carrying a lotto team over there.   He'd be joining a Celtic team that projects to win 50+ without him. 

As for Golden State... yeah, going there makes them the favorites, but really that team has nowhere to go but down.  They aren't winning more than 73 games next season.  It's already Steph's team.  Durant would look anticompetitive.  Fans are already turning on the Warriors.  Going there would damage his reputation and likely hurt his career long-term.  He'd just be helping Under Armour's guy stay on top.  It's a bad decision all around.

Spurs are whatever.  Most boring dynasty ever.  I nearly just fell asleep even typing about them.   That Hawaiian star they have, who is too boring to even remember his name, plays the same position as Durant.  If Durant dreams of winning in obscurity, maybe he'd consider going there.  Pop is nearly 70 years old.  Duncan's got a foot out the door.  Most of those guys are old.  Aldridge is a year older than Al Horford.   He could go there and maybe squeeze a title out of that situation, but someone is going to need to play out of position for that to work.  I saw Durant's first professional game ever in Seattle.  They tried playing him at SG.  It was a disaster.  Later, they struggled to find a way to make him and Jeff Green work together.  Poor Jeff Green had to play out of position at PF for several years.   Durant's been through this before.  San Antonio isn't as good a fit as Boston.

Not to mention, Boston is loaded with assets and young guys who will just continue to feed into the roster (or get traded for upgrades) that will continue to improve that team.   Also, they have all the key guys under contract on reasonable deals... a year from now when the cap jumps, they'll have money to add ANOTHER max contract player.

Boston is a legit possibility.  Sure, maybe he gets goaded into joining that garbage OKC team by those baby-eating Seattle-murdering scumbucket hillbillies that own that franchise, but if he knows what's good for him and Boston's group did their job - he'll be coming to the Celtics where he belongs.

Just my opinion tho.

Epic rant. 4tp's.

I sincerely hope DA was able to convey several of the points you made
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Durant Meeting (Merged)
« Reply #470 on: July 03, 2016, 08:24:07 AM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48121
  • Tommy Points: 8800
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
I have to go back and read the thread. I only got to page 8 last night before I had to head to bed exhausted but I think Durant could surprise the NBA world and decide Boston. I really think Danny sold him on the city, the fan base, the structure of the front office, on Brad Stevens and Durant's fit in the offense, the acquisition of Al Horford and I am sure Dannu told him about plans to bring in another star through a major trade from the treasure trove of draft picks and young players he has.

I called Horford signing yesterday when aldaboston asked me if he would sign yesterday morning. Just had the feeling. I have the feeling again with Durant. I will be disappointed if he heads back to OKC but I won't be surprised if he chooses Boston. I think Ainge probably did a masterful job in that meeting yesterday.

Re: Durant Meeting (Merged)
« Reply #471 on: July 03, 2016, 08:24:25 AM »

Offline saltlover

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12490
  • Tommy Points: 2619
correct me if im wrong cuz i know very little about nba finance.

how can gsw sign durant? wouldnt they be in the same situation the hawks were in? they'd have to somehow offload someone (bogut?) in order to get durant somewhere near the max?

according to basketball-reference they have 80m in committed salary. if the cap is around ~94m, they'd have to get rid of someone no? and even then, seeing as how they'll likely get some salary back in a trade, could they offer durant a max?

or is the hope that durant takes a pay-cut to get on a championship contender?

Golden State would let all their free agents go and trade Bogut to one of the many teams with cap room, meaning they would take back no salary.  Their starting five would be Curry, Klay, Iggy, KD, and Green.  Their bench would be Livingston and scrubs.  It'd be the ultimate stars and scrubs team, but whenever they're playing 3 of those 5 at the same time, they'd be solid on the court, and when they play all 5 it will be like Team USA at the olympics next month.

Re: Durant Meeting (Merged)
« Reply #472 on: July 03, 2016, 08:52:53 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19003
  • Tommy Points: 1833
Ira Winderman ‏@IraHeatBeat
It's starting to look like Riley's meeting with Durant could come down to, "Just don't sign with Celtics." Clips look out after their moves.

Ira Winderman ‏@IraHeatBeat
If Durant is truly considering deciding as soon as tonight. then Heat hardly enter meetings in position of strength (let alone cap).


LOL

Re: Durant Meeting (Merged)
« Reply #473 on: July 03, 2016, 09:19:57 AM »

Offline CelticD

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1201
  • Tommy Points: 140
correct me if im wrong cuz i know very little about nba finance.

how can gsw sign durant? wouldnt they be in the same situation the hawks were in? they'd have to somehow offload someone (bogut?) in order to get durant somewhere near the max?

according to basketball-reference they have 80m in committed salary. if the cap is around ~94m, they'd have to get rid of someone no? and even then, seeing as how they'll likely get some salary back in a trade, could they offer durant a max?

or is the hope that durant takes a pay-cut to get on a championship contender?

Golden State would let all their free agents go and trade Bogut to one of the many teams with cap room, meaning they would take back no salary.  Their starting five would be Curry, Klay, Iggy, KD, and Green.  Their bench would be Livingston and scrubs.  It'd be the ultimate stars and scrubs team, but whenever they're playing 3 of those 5 at the same time, they'd be solid on the court, and when they play all 5 it will be like Team USA at the olympics next month.

oh ok. and would they be able to give durant a max? getting durant would of course be an upgrade, but i do like how theres sort of a pre-requisite to acquiring him, whereas wit the c's the only thing he has to do is sign on the dotted line.

Re: Durant Meeting (Merged)
« Reply #474 on: July 03, 2016, 09:38:40 AM »

Offline Surferdad

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15241
  • Tommy Points: 1034
  • "He fiddles...and diddles..."
correct me if im wrong cuz i know very little about nba finance.

how can gsw sign durant? wouldnt they be in the same situation the hawks were in? they'd have to somehow offload someone (bogut?) in order to get durant somewhere near the max?

according to basketball-reference they have 80m in committed salary. if the cap is around ~94m, they'd have to get rid of someone no? and even then, seeing as how they'll likely get some salary back in a trade, could they offer durant a max?

or is the hope that durant takes a pay-cut to get on a championship contender?

Golden State would let all their free agents go and trade Bogut to one of the many teams with cap room, meaning they would take back no salary.  Their starting five would be Curry, Klay, Iggy, KD, and Green.  Their bench would be Livingston and scrubs.  It'd be the ultimate stars and scrubs team, but whenever they're playing 3 of those 5 at the same time, they'd be solid on the court, and when they play all 5 it will be like Team USA at the olympics next month.

oh ok. and would they be able to give durant a max? getting durant would of course be an upgrade, but i do like how theres sort of a pre-requisite to acquiring him, whereas wit the c's the only thing he has to do is sign on the dotted line.
Yup, just like for OKC to sign Horford they would have had to make a move (trade Kanter), and Miami has to make a move to re-sign Wade for what he wants (trade Dragic).  This demonstrates the genius of Ainge:  He put the team into position to make a move in free agency.  This goes back to the Nets and Mavericks trades:  Don't over-commit salary on players that are not part of the long-term future.

Re: Durant Meeting (Merged)
« Reply #475 on: July 03, 2016, 09:41:13 AM »

Offline hpantazo

  • Tommy Heinsohn
  • *************************
  • Posts: 25355
  • Tommy Points: 2756
correct me if im wrong cuz i know very little about nba finance.

how can gsw sign durant? wouldnt they be in the same situation the hawks were in? they'd have to somehow offload someone (bogut?) in order to get durant somewhere near the max?

according to basketball-reference they have 80m in committed salary. if the cap is around ~94m, they'd have to get rid of someone no? and even then, seeing as how they'll likely get some salary back in a trade, could they offer durant a max?

or is the hope that durant takes a pay-cut to get on a championship contender?

Golden State would let all their free agents go and trade Bogut to one of the many teams with cap room, meaning they would take back no salary.  Their starting five would be Curry, Klay, Iggy, KD, and Green.  Their bench would be Livingston and scrubs.  It'd be the ultimate stars and scrubs team, but whenever they're playing 3 of those 5 at the same time, they'd be solid on the court, and when they play all 5 it will be like Team USA at the olympics next month.

oh ok. and would they be able to give durant a max? getting durant would of course be an upgrade, but i do like how theres sort of a pre-requisite to acquiring him, whereas wit the c's the only thing he has to do is sign on the dotted line.
Yup, just like for OKC to sign Horford they would have had to make a move (trade Kanter), and Miami has to make a move to re-sign Wade for what he wants (trade Dragic).  This demonstrates the genius of Ainge:  He put the team into position to make a move in free agency.  This goes back to the Nets and Mavericks trades:  Don't over-commit salary on players that are not part of the long-term future.


It is also why he turned down several draft day trades, to preserve this cap space for this moment. No other team in the league has both the cap space to sign two max free agents, AND the largely intact roster of a 48 win playoff team.

Re: Durant Meeting (Merged)
« Reply #476 on: July 03, 2016, 09:46:17 AM »

Offline saltlover

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12490
  • Tommy Points: 2619
correct me if im wrong cuz i know very little about nba finance.

how can gsw sign durant? wouldnt they be in the same situation the hawks were in? they'd have to somehow offload someone (bogut?) in order to get durant somewhere near the max?

according to basketball-reference they have 80m in committed salary. if the cap is around ~94m, they'd have to get rid of someone no? and even then, seeing as how they'll likely get some salary back in a trade, could they offer durant a max?

or is the hope that durant takes a pay-cut to get on a championship contender?

Golden State would let all their free agents go and trade Bogut to one of the many teams with cap room, meaning they would take back no salary.  Their starting five would be Curry, Klay, Iggy, KD, and Green.  Their bench would be Livingston and scrubs.  It'd be the ultimate stars and scrubs team, but whenever they're playing 3 of those 5 at the same time, they'd be solid on the court, and when they play all 5 it will be like Team USA at the olympics next month.

oh ok. and would they be able to give durant a max? getting durant would of course be an upgrade, but i do like how theres sort of a pre-requisite to acquiring him, whereas wit the c's the only thing he has to do is sign on the dotted line.
Yup, just like for OKC to sign Horford they would have had to make a move (trade Kanter), and Miami has to make a move to re-sign Wade for what he wants (trade Dragic).  This demonstrates the genius of Ainge:  He put the team into position to make a move in free agency.  This goes back to the Nets and Mavericks trades:  Don't over-commit salary on players that are not part of the long-term future.


It is also why he turned down several draft day trades, to preserve this cap space for this moment.

Exactly.  The Noel trade that everyone got angry about would have cost $3.6 million more in salary cap space this year.  We have enough room to sign both by a few hundred thousand.

Re: Durant Meeting (Merged)
« Reply #477 on: July 03, 2016, 10:02:39 AM »

Offline angryguy77

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7925
  • Tommy Points: 654
This team is due for a big FA (Harford aside) signing.
Come on KD,  don't let us down.

Monday is going to take forever to get here.
Back to wanting Joe fired.

Re: Durant Meeting (Merged)
« Reply #478 on: July 03, 2016, 10:05:52 AM »

Offline straightouttabahstun

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 504
  • Tommy Points: 39
  • That's turrible
We'll definitely hear something today at some point. Someone (maybe Durant himself or someone close to him) will definitely leak that info.

 I can't wait to hear the announcement over the Player's Tribune either way. That's definitely one of the first official spots we'll hear it.

Re: Durant Meeting (Merged)
« Reply #479 on: July 03, 2016, 10:16:40 AM »

Offline bdm860

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6138
  • Tommy Points: 4624
By this point, we've probably all seen the pic of Brady walking with Ainge and Co. from yesterday's meeting, but here's a few more where he poses with our players:




After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class