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Re: With the Third Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics select...
« Reply #120 on: May 19, 2016, 07:06:59 AM »

Offline slightly biased bias fan

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I really don't understand the fascination with hield and murray.   Isaiah is basically the scorer and catalyst in our offense. Bradley comes off screens and is improving as a driver or cutter. Smart basically roams off the ball and is a defensive specialist and plays combo guard and some back up point as well.  I feel like Murray would basically take his spot in the offense and be a more offensive version of it without the defense. Hield would be a better version of bradley possibly but isnt even on that level yet and doesnt play that kind of defense.

What this team needs is Bender.  We don't even know who is going to go one or two yet. I think Ingram would fit us out of those guys but Simmons you are basically drafting his talent. Both guys could play behind crowder and some pf themselves.   Bender fits what we need at the 4 and can do that too, and we can draft a bigger center later in the draft and get rid of Zeller.  KO and Sully are not very good starters so far.  We were left starting jerebko who is ok but not that talented. Bender would be a talented version of that.

Have you watched Bender or seen his stats, someone like him even if he has a huge ceiling, will take years to develop, especially being a front court player. Porzingis was wayyyyy more developed than Bender and he even had problems with any type of physicality, Hield is ready to play now and has show to be a leader and deadly from three off the ball two things we need now.

Re: With the Third Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics select...
« Reply #121 on: May 19, 2016, 07:10:30 AM »

Offline walker834

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I really don't understand the fascination with hield and murray.   Isaiah is basically the scorer and catalyst in our offense. Bradley comes off screens and is improving as a driver or cutter. Smart basically roams off the ball and is a defensive specialist and plays combo guard and some back up point as well.  I feel like Murray would basically take his spot in the offense and be a more offensive version of it without the defense. Hield would be a better version of bradley possibly but isnt even on that level yet and doesnt play that kind of defense.

What this team needs is Bender.  We don't even know who is going to go one or two yet. I think Ingram would fit us out of those guys but Simmons you are basically drafting his talent. Both guys could play behind crowder and some pf themselves.   Bender fits what we need at the 4 and can do that too, and we can draft a bigger center later in the draft and get rid of Zeller.  KO and Sully are not very good starters so far.  We were left starting jerebko who is ok but not that talented. Bender would be a talented version of that.

Have you watched Bender or seen his stats, someone like him even if he has a huge ceiling, will take years to develop, especially being a front court player. Porzingis was wayyyyy more developed than Bender and he even had problems with any type of physicality, Hield is ready to play now and has show to be a leader and deadly from three off the ball two things we need now.

If we are drafting 3 and Ingram and Simmons are gone it's really Bender or Brown to me.  I'm really fine with either of those guys anyways.  We have Turner and we have KO and Jerebko but either guy is an upgrade there down the road particularly which goes for any of these guys.

I think our guards are fine.  Ainge traded for Isaiah, drafted Smart.  Got bradley as a nice pick and project who he has developed.   Drafted Rozier and Hunter last year.  They are going to get better too and are good  backups to bradley and isaiah. Smart is the enigma in our offense right now.  He can be a point ultimately a nd his offense is going to improve.  Why are we drafting Murray? I don't get it. Unless it's to make a trade somewhere but eh....

Both Murray and Smart kind of just roam off the ball and can play some pg. They are basically just basketball players.  Murray does not have Smart's defense. He's also very young. I don't think Murray is a pg ultimately. He's a combo guard who just does that.  Smart can actually be a pg.

I don't think Stevens called many plays for Marcus last year.  Any of these guys are going to take time.

I honestly could give a flying hoot about Benders stats last year.  We are drafting players based off of talent level. He played an hour of basketball overseas.

Hield as a replacement for Bradley makes more sense than Murray to me. Bradley was hurt.  BRadley is a good starter though when healthy.  KO and Sully not so much so far. I also think jerebko was fun to watch there but was an anomaly.  Bender actually has talent.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 07:29:58 AM by walker834 »

Re: With the Third Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics select...
« Reply #122 on: May 19, 2016, 07:42:42 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Have you watched Bender or seen his stats, someone like him even if he has a huge ceiling, will take years to develop, especially being a front court player. Porzingis was wayyyyy more developed than Bender and he even had problems with any type of physicality, Hield is ready to play now and has show to be a leader and deadly from three off the ball two things we need now.

Immediate help is what Ainge said in the post draft interview.   Don't worry Ainge won't pick Bender more than likely, he is a project who will take 2-3 years.    Ainge does not have a rich history of drafting foreign players, either.

Quote
I honestly could give a flying hoot about Benders stats last year.  We are drafting players based off of talent level. He played an hour of basketball overseas.

Not surprising since you seem fact resistant and only look at things that reinforce your bias.  Don't you think if he had more talent than he would have played more than hour?   I mean he sat almost a whole season, doesn't that worry you?

Quote
BEnder is also a high iq player which most people don't realize.  I don't even know that much about him but I know that just by listening to him.  I like high iq players and certain players strike me as that each draft.  It's also who ainge targets usually. There are certain things that go overlooked in how players speak and communicate their inner drive that just comes across.

I like a lot of guys this draft that way though.  I think this is a pretty smart draft overall.

I think you should have a high basketball IQ to judge basketball IQ.   This most likely rules you out, my friend.  Don't confuse opinion with insight into the nuances of the game.    Do you recall posting this:

Quote
Most talented players

Isaiah
KO
Smart
Sully
Crowder
Bradley

Most talented Prospects

Mickey
Rozier

Everyone else

Turner
Amir
Lee
Young
Rj

I think this rules you out of any discussion of basketball IQ.   

Re: With the Third Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics select...
« Reply #123 on: May 19, 2016, 07:49:36 AM »

Offline walker834

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Quote
Have you watched Bender or seen his stats, someone like him even if he has a huge ceiling, will take years to develop, especially being a front court player. Porzingis was wayyyyy more developed than Bender and he even had problems with any type of physicality, Hield is ready to play now and has show to be a leader and deadly from three off the ball two things we need now.

Immediate help is what Ainge said in the post draft interview.   Don't worry Ainge won't pick Bender more than likely, he is a project who will take 2-3 years.    Ainge does not have a rich history of drafting foreign players, either.

Quote
I honestly could give a flying hoot about Benders stats last year.  We are drafting players based off of talent level. He played an hour of basketball overseas.

Not surprising since you seem fact resistant and only look at things that reinforce your bias.  Don't you think if he had more talent than he would have played more than hour?   I mean he sat almost a whole season, doesn't that worry you?

Quote
BEnder is also a high iq player which most people don't realize.  I don't even know that much about him but I know that just by listening to him.  I like high iq players and certain players strike me as that each draft.  It's also who ainge targets usually. There are certain things that go overlooked in how players speak and communicate their inner drive that just comes across.

I like a lot of guys this draft that way though.  I think this is a pretty smart draft overall.

I think you should have a high basketball IQ to judge basketball IQ.   This most likely rules you out, my friend.  Don't confuse opinion with insight into the nuances of the game.    Do you recall posting this:

Quote
Most talented players

Isaiah
KO
Smart
Sully
Crowder
Bradley

Most talented Prospects

Mickey
Rozier

Everyone else

Turner
Amir
Lee
Young
Rj

I think this rules you out of any discussion of basketball IQ.

What have I said that makes no sense or shows a lack of intelligence? I was spot on that Rozier and mickey were our most talented prospects.  They are the only guys who even came close to cracking the rotation. I was also spot on that those were our most talented players.  Turner and Amir probably deserves to be in that group but eh.  Stevens saw it the same way.  Those guys got the most minutes over the course of the year because they were the most talented, most developed etc.

What I'm saying with Bender's stats being meaningless isn't what you think anyways.  They are meaningless. He played an hour of basketball. He is the equivalent of a highschool prospect already set to go to the nba in the european league.  Players over there have to develop and earn playing time. He is the equivalent of an 18 year old highschool nba prospect over there right now.

Any player we draft is going to have to develop. Some more than others. Unless you are drafting hield he is obviously a 4 year college player.  A few of them have a year under their belts.  Yeah they are a year ahead.  It's not the end all be all as far as an entire nba career.

I actually like Young but he's very young. We are still developing him and Rj. They aren't dead yet.

Also a fan of Turner and jerebko although i think their ceilings are pretty limited.

NEver was big on david lee ever and said that.  I also think Amir here long term is pretty limited.  He's serviceable and served a role as a free agent signing.  Sully can still become a bench player.  Whether he'd be good at that or is worth the money is something else.  We might draft someone else.  We aren't winning anything with our current big men I know that.

That post was made before the season I think or early on.  It's pretty accurate actually. I also predicted 47 wins.  We got 48 I think.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 08:09:10 AM by walker834 »

Re: With the Third Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics select...
« Reply #124 on: May 19, 2016, 08:02:22 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Trade down for Sabonis.


Re: With the Third Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics select...
« Reply #125 on: May 19, 2016, 08:13:15 AM »

Offline walker834

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Bender is  a twig.  He struggles establishing position right now but plays the game with a certain something.  Simmons and Ingram are more nba ready but even Ingram is a twig.  He's more developed as a scorer plus that's just his game. Simmons has a more ready nba body but even he needs to bulk up a bit. Bender moreso but he's a year behind them I think.

Any of these guys are prospects. hield is the one guy who is a 4 year college player.  Murray is 19.

All these guys got to play one year at the college level.  Had their ups and downs.  Bender is a year younger and is overseas playing with grownups and is the equivalent of a highschool prospect who played an hour of basketball.

Players over there have to earn playing time and it's not like the college game over here.

All his stats mean is he has to develop. 

Re: With the Third Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics select...
« Reply #126 on: May 19, 2016, 08:31:12 AM »

Offline walker834

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I would draft bender at 3.  It depends though on if the celtics want to wait.  I also like jaylen brown and hield.  I'm not that big on murray.  we have smart.  I'm also a fan of trying to trade for Butler, Okafor, Love etc but I'll believe it when i see it.

As far as  the rest of the  draft I'd hope a guy like brice johnson slides to 16 or one of the other guys with some upside like Valentine or Davis, Skal etc..  Draft a center with our later pick and maybe take a chance on a sully replacement in the 2nd round like robert carter.  I would try to resign sully as a roleplayer but teams might outbid us. I wouldnt go over his qualifying offer to do that.  We have Mickey.  We can also take a chance on a replacement in the 2nd round.

I'd let Zeller walk.  I'd pick up Turners and Amir's options depending on trades and who we draft.

If we trade the pick or trade Smart, it all goes out the window.  We could take Murray or Dunn or whoever.

If we take a center with our pick that could be a lot of guys.  Zhou Qi, Those two euros Zubac and the other guy.  I like Aj Hammons myself but not sold on him or anything.

me personally I would not trade Smart. I would build around him. I would trade Isaiah before I'd trade him down the road.  But that's me. I prefer building through the draft and around smart than selling the farm in any trade scenario.

I feel like Ainge sees it the opposite way but who knows.  That's Wyc and the media in his ear and fireworks.  Don't do it Danny Boy. Be strong.  Lebron isn't going to last forever and building through the draft might be good vs trying to put a makeshift team together of players who can't beat lebron anyways.  Griffin can't do it with Paul and Deandre jordan in their prime. What makes people think Griffin will here? That's an interesting one though. KG and Billups didn't get a title but he got one here.  But I don't know.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 09:06:00 AM by walker834 »

Re: With the Third Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics select...
« Reply #127 on: May 19, 2016, 08:37:19 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Bender is  a twig.  He struggles establishing position right now but plays the game with a certain something.  Simmons and Ingram are more nba ready but even Ingram is a twig.  He's more developed as a scorer plus that's just his game. Simmons has a more ready nba body but even he needs to bulk up a bit. Bender moreso but he's a year behind them I think.

Any of these guys are prospects. hield is the one guy who is a 4 year college player.  Murray is 19.

All these guys got to play one year at the college level.  Had their ups and downs.  Bender is a year younger and is overseas playing with grownups and is the equivalent of a highschool prospect who played an hour of basketball.

Players over there have to earn playing time and it's not like the college game over here.

All his stats mean is he has to develop.
I am leaning heavily towards Hield as an NBA-ready player with skills on both ends of the floor.  My only hesitation is whether he has more upside, or if ultimately the "prospects" out there may eventually be better.  A lot of times 4-year guys are already plateauing when they get to the NBA.

Re: With the Third Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics select...
« Reply #128 on: May 19, 2016, 08:41:04 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Trade down for Sabonis.
The Celtics are not trading down in this draft. They may trade out of the draft by packaging picks for a player. They may trade up in the draft to package a bunch of lower picks for a higher pick. They may package second rounders and players like Young or Hunter or Mickey to clear roster spaces for 1st rounders if they feel the first rounders have more potential than our current players. But they are not trading down.

If you are so desperate for Sabonis to be on the Celtics you better hope he is available around 13 and that Ainge trades the 16th and more to move up to grab him. Its the only way that is going to happen

Re: With the Third Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics select...
« Reply #129 on: May 19, 2016, 08:42:15 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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After reading the informative posts above, I give permission to ainge to draft any of bender, Murray, or Dunn.  ;D
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Re: With the Third Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics select...
« Reply #130 on: May 19, 2016, 09:12:39 AM »

Offline walker834

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What we need is a young kid to look Wyc in the eye like a laser like Tom Brady did to Kraft and say I'm the best decision you ever made. Wyc wants fireworks too much and puts too much pressure on Ainge that way. he's being an owner. It's good for both sides. I just hope we make the right decision regardless.

Young players take a while but some are truly special.  KG was that.  Didn't have the supporting cast in Minny but was a beast from day one even out of highschool.

It took him to get here to get all the right pieces around him.  I don't have the same faith a guy like Griffin is going to come here and win when he can't win with a prime Chris Paul on his team. He was hurt but even still.  He basically screwed that team himself.

I like what bender said that he's skinny and doesn't have the muscles of some of these other guys, but he's plays good.  he doesn't think he has many strengths.  He thinks he has a lot of weaknesses and just has to work to get better. Not exactly Tom brady but roger federer maybe as far as personality.  I think Bender could be great.  he has that opportunity.   Not many players can say that.

I think Bender could be the Roger Federer of basketball.  That's the Tom Brady in me though. 
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 09:26:11 AM by walker834 »

Re: With the Third Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics select...
« Reply #131 on: May 19, 2016, 09:33:33 AM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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Trade down for Sabonis.
The Celtics are not trading down in this draft. They may trade out of the draft by packaging picks for a player. They may trade up in the draft to package a bunch of lower picks for a higher pick. They may package second rounders and players like Young or Hunter or Mickey to clear roster spaces for 1st rounders if they feel the first rounders have more potential than our current players. But they are not trading down.

If you are so desperate for Sabonis to be on the Celtics you better hope he is available around 13 and that Ainge trades the 16th and more to move up to grab him. Its the only way that is going to happen
"Only way" Sabonis will be gone by 10 after he works out with team. He is a stud. I am hopeful we get him.
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Re: With the Third Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics select...
« Reply #132 on: May 19, 2016, 09:36:14 AM »

Offline walker834

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Sabonis is another guy who is undervalued.  Great personality and hard worker.  Plays with an edge.  He's a bit crazy to me but I like that. Warrior like Triboy said to me in another thread.  His upside is somewhat limited but gets the most out of it. Smart player.

Sabonis to me would be a great surprise pick as a possible replacement for Sully.   He's also way better than Zeller.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 09:41:25 AM by walker834 »

Re: With the Third Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics select...
« Reply #133 on: May 19, 2016, 09:47:40 AM »

Offline TheTruth34

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I think Bender could be the Roger Federer of basketball.  That's the Tom Brady in me though.

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Re: With the Third Pick in the NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics select...
« Reply #134 on: May 19, 2016, 09:52:30 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Sabonis is another guy who is undervalued.  Great personality and hard worker.  Plays with an edge.  He's a bit crazy to me but I like that. Warrior like Triboy said to me in another thread.  His upside is somewhat limited but gets the most out of it. Smart player.

Sabonis to me would be a great surprise pick as a possible replacement for Sully.   He's also way better than Zeller.

He will be gone.  He will nail interviews and workouts . I bet he is feverishly working on improving his jump shot right now, at the gym working on his body. 

He is strong as an ox (generics or through hard work or both) , he has  big hands and a very strong " grip" and will snatch rebounds out of you. In addition dump the ball to him in traffic and again he will grab it.  Even if he misses or gets his shot partially blocked he will go after it in a relentless fashion.  Underrated 2nd jump.

Absolute fire player (6-10-6'11)

Maybe will turn out to be like a Dave cowens.  Taller Charles oakley
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 09:57:31 AM by triboy16f »