sign howard

[Roy H.]

The "exact type" of player the Celtics need isn't a whiny quitter with no leadership qualities who has now burned bridges with three franchises. Spending 35% of your cap on a breaking down prima donna non-star is a good way to kill a rebuild.

I'd rather have Mahimi, Ezeli, Pachulia, Horford, or even Big Al.  All should be much cheaper (even Horford won't approach $31 million), and none have the baggage.

[LooseCannon]

I'd take Howard over Harden.

[PhoSita]

The "exact type" of player the Celtics need isn't a whiny quitter with no leadership qualities who has now burned bridges with three franchises. Spending 35% of your cap on a breaking down prima donna non-star is a good way to kill a rebuild.

I'd rather have Mahimi, Ezeli, Pachulia, Horford, or even Big Al.  All should be much cheaper (even Horford won't approach $31 million), and none have the baggage.

I think I understand your perspective on this.  I just don't agree.  Different situation.  I think the Celts need to overpay and gamble on a guy who maybe has had some issues elsewhere.

Sure, you'd prefer for it to be somebody younger, or more cost-efficient.

But I think Howard has a few good playoff runs left in him, if he's in the right situation.  I believe the Celts could be that situation.  And while mentally / personality wise I'd much prefer Horford, I think Dwight might improve the Celts much more on the court.

I don't think the Celts need to worry about Dwight's leadership abilities because IT, Smart, Bradley, Crowder are already the leaders of this team.


Ultimately, I think this will probably be a non-issue because Dwight will sign with a team that has lower expectations and less media scrutiny, i.e. Charlotte, Milwaukee, Orlando, Portland.  Perhaps Atlanta.

[moiso]

The "exact type" of player the Celtics need isn't a whiny quitter with no leadership qualities who has now burned bridges with three franchises. Spending 35% of your cap on a breaking down prima donna non-star is a good way to kill a rebuild.

I'd rather have Mahimi, Ezeli, Pachulia, Horford, or even Big Al.  All should be much cheaper (even Horford won't approach $31 million), and none have the baggage.

I don't really how you hate Howard's personality but don't mind Cousins' personality at all.  They are similar to me.  And Cousins will be on his 3rd team someday too.  Too me they are both clowns. 

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Not for the max.

Personality aside, he's a definitive upgrade in our Center spot, will provide the necessary rim protection and be an extra scoring threat.

But not for the max...

[Roy H.]

The "exact type" of player the Celtics need isn't a whiny quitter with no leadership qualities who has now burned bridges with three franchises. Spending 35% of your cap on a breaking down prima donna non-star is a good way to kill a rebuild.

I'd rather have Mahimi, Ezeli, Pachulia, Horford, or even Big Al.  All should be much cheaper (even Horford won't approach $31 million), and none have the baggage.

I don't really how you hate Howard's personality but don't mind Cousins' personality at all.  They are similar to me.  And Cousins will be on his 3rd team someday too.  Too me they are both clowns.

Cousins is passionate about winning and is fiercely loyal, he improves his game every year, and he's a much better player who makes roughly 40% of the salary that Howard is demanding.

[Onslaught]

The "exact type" of player the Celtics need isn't a whiny quitter with no leadership qualities who has now burned bridges with three franchises. Spending 35% of your cap on a breaking down prima donna non-star is a good way to kill a rebuild.

I'd rather have Mahimi, Ezeli, Pachulia, Horford, or even Big Al.  All should be much cheaper (even Horford won't approach $31 million), and none have the baggage.

I think I understand your perspective on this.  I just don't agree.  Different situation.  I think the Celts need to overpay and gamble on a guy who maybe has had some issues elsewhere.

Sure, you'd prefer for it to be somebody younger, or more cost-efficient.

But I think Howard has a few good playoff runs left in him, if he's in the right situation.  I believe the Celts could be that situation.  And while mentally / personality wise I'd much prefer Horford, I think Dwight might improve the Celts much more on the court.

I don't think the Celts need to worry about Dwight's leadership abilities because IT, Smart, Bradley, Crowder are already the leaders of this team.


Ultimately, I think this will probably be a non-issue because Dwight will sign with a team that has lower expectations and less media scrutiny, i.e. Charlotte, Milwaukee, Orlando, Portland.  Perhaps Atlanta.

You think Dwight will not have a problem with these guys being leaders? Have I been seeing a totally different person over the years then others have? Getting Dwight at this point seems the same as when we got Dominique back in the 90's.

[Jon]

The "exact type" of player the Celtics need isn't a whiny quitter with no leadership qualities who has now burned bridges with three franchises. Spending 35% of your cap on a breaking down prima donna non-star is a good way to kill a rebuild.

I'd rather have Mahimi, Ezeli, Pachulia, Horford, or even Big Al.  All should be much cheaper (even Horford won't approach $31 million), and none have the baggage.

I think I understand your perspective on this.  I just don't agree.  Different situation.  I think the Celts need to overpay and gamble on a guy who maybe has had some issues elsewhere.

Sure, you'd prefer for it to be somebody younger, or more cost-efficient.

But I think Howard has a few good playoff runs left in him, if he's in the right situation.  I believe the Celts could be that situation.  And while mentally / personality wise I'd much prefer Horford, I think Dwight might improve the Celts much more on the court.

I don't think the Celts need to worry about Dwight's leadership abilities because IT, Smart, Bradley, Crowder are already the leaders of this team.


Ultimately, I think this will probably be a non-issue because Dwight will sign with a team that has lower expectations and less media scrutiny, i.e. Charlotte, Milwaukee, Orlando, Portland.  Perhaps Atlanta.

You think Dwight will not have a problem with these guys being leaders? Have I been seeing a totally different person over the years then others have? Getting Dwight at this point seems the same as when we got Dominique back in the 90's.

In fairness, Dominique came to the Celtics when they were in decline and was a desperate move to try to stay relevant. Dwight would probably make the C's a second round playoff team with a shot at the ECF.

And I don't think that justifies signing him. But if they nabbed Durant and either drafted Simmons or traded for someone like Butler, I'd be totally down signing Howard as the final piece. He just shouldn't be the first piece.

[MBunge]

The "exact type" of player the Celtics need isn't a whiny quitter with no leadership qualities who has now burned bridges with three franchises. Spending 35% of your cap on a breaking down prima donna non-star is a good way to kill a rebuild.

I'd rather have Mahimi, Ezeli, Pachulia, Horford, or even Big Al.  All should be much cheaper (even Horford won't approach $31 million), and none have the baggage.

I don't really how you hate Howard's personality but don't mind Cousins' personality at all.  They are similar to me.  And Cousins will be on his 3rd team someday too.  Too me they are both clowns.

Cousins is passionate about winning and is fiercely loyal, he improves his game every year, and he's a much better player who makes roughly 40% of the salary that Howard is demanding.

1.  Cousins is a headcase far beyond ANYTHING of which Howard has been accused.

2.  Howard can demand whatever he wants.  That doesn't mean he's going to get it.

3.  Cousins has also never won more than 33 games in any season in his career.  Howard won 36 games as a 19 year old rookie and has been the best player on multiple 50 win teams.

Not wanting Howard makes sense.  Wanting Cousins instead is dumb.

Mike

[Roy H.]

The "exact type" of player the Celtics need isn't a whiny quitter with no leadership qualities who has now burned bridges with three franchises. Spending 35% of your cap on a breaking down prima donna non-star is a good way to kill a rebuild.

I'd rather have Mahimi, Ezeli, Pachulia, Horford, or even Big Al.  All should be much cheaper (even Horford won't approach $31 million), and none have the baggage.

I don't really how you hate Howard's personality but don't mind Cousins' personality at all.  They are similar to me.  And Cousins will be on his 3rd team someday too.  Too me they are both clowns.

Cousins is passionate about winning and is fiercely loyal, he improves his game every year, and he's a much better player who makes roughly 40% of the salary that Howard is demanding.

1.  Cousins is a headcase far beyond ANYTHING of which Howard has been accused.

2.  Howard can demand whatever he wants.  That doesn't mean he's going to get it.

3.  Cousins has also never won more than 33 games in any season in his career.  Howard won 36 games as a 19 year old rookie and has been the best player on multiple 50 win teams.

Not wanting Howard makes sense.  Wanting Cousins instead is dumb.

Mike

Haha. When deciding what's "dumb", I'll consider the source.

In my world, taking the guy who is several years younger, costs about half as much, and who is a better player pretty much across the board makes sense.  I'll take the best center in the NBA, not the guy who was good multiple franchises ago.

[max215]

I'd take Dwight for 3/60, but not for the max.

[PhoSita]

The "exact type" of player the Celtics need isn't a whiny quitter with no leadership qualities who has now burned bridges with three franchises. Spending 35% of your cap on a breaking down prima donna non-star is a good way to kill a rebuild.

I'd rather have Mahimi, Ezeli, Pachulia, Horford, or even Big Al.  All should be much cheaper (even Horford won't approach $31 million), and none have the baggage.

I think I understand your perspective on this.  I just don't agree.  Different situation.  I think the Celts need to overpay and gamble on a guy who maybe has had some issues elsewhere.

Sure, you'd prefer for it to be somebody younger, or more cost-efficient.

But I think Howard has a few good playoff runs left in him, if he's in the right situation.  I believe the Celts could be that situation.  And while mentally / personality wise I'd much prefer Horford, I think Dwight might improve the Celts much more on the court.

I don't think the Celts need to worry about Dwight's leadership abilities because IT, Smart, Bradley, Crowder are already the leaders of this team.


Ultimately, I think this will probably be a non-issue because Dwight will sign with a team that has lower expectations and less media scrutiny, i.e. Charlotte, Milwaukee, Orlando, Portland.  Perhaps Atlanta.

You think Dwight will not have a problem with these guys being leaders? Have I been seeing a totally different person over the years then others have? Getting Dwight at this point seems the same as when we got Dominique back in the 90's.

My impression is that Dwight has an issue with guys who don't share the ball and think they don't need to try on defense.

Since he's a big man who needs others to pass him the ball to get his offense, and on defense he's the guy who gets hung out to dry if his teammates don't make an effort on the perimeter, I can't really blame him for that.

I don't think he'd have an issue playing with Isaiah, Crowder, Smart, etc.  And I don't think he'd have a problem with them being the emotional leaders of the team.  I've always felt Dwight needs to be on a team where other guys are providing the leadership and he can just be a contributor on the floor and positive, friendly presence off it.

[ThePaintedArea]

Honestly, I just don't think cap flexibility means much if anything the next few years.

 Sure it does. Not having to match salaries makes all your assets more fungible, especially all those draft picks.

Our assets are plenty fungible already.

Your original statement referred to cap space in general, not particularly to the Celtics'. Sounds like you accept my point, but don't think that it applies to Boston.

But in re: the Celtics particularly, I'm not persuaded. Why would you NOT want to maximize your flexibility? Why risk having to give up core players to get to the next level?

[LooseCannon]

The "exact type" of player the Celtics need isn't a whiny quitter with no leadership qualities who has now burned bridges with three franchises. Spending 35% of your cap on a breaking down prima donna non-star is a good way to kill a rebuild.

I'd rather have Mahimi, Ezeli, Pachulia, Horford, or even Big Al.  All should be much cheaper (even Horford won't approach $31 million), and none have the baggage.

I don't really how you hate Howard's personality but don't mind Cousins' personality at all.  They are similar to me.  And Cousins will be on his 3rd team someday too.  Too me they are both clowns.

Cousins is passionate about winning and is fiercely loyal, he improves his game every year, and he's a much better player who makes roughly 40% of the salary that Howard is demanding.

1.  Cousins is a headcase far beyond ANYTHING of which Howard has been accused.

2.  Howard can demand whatever he wants.  That doesn't mean he's going to get it.

3.  Cousins has also never won more than 33 games in any season in his career.  Howard won 36 games as a 19 year old rookie and has been the best player on multiple 50 win teams.

Not wanting Howard makes sense.  Wanting Cousins instead is dumb.

Mike

Haha. When deciding what's "dumb", I'll consider the source.

In my world, taking the guy who is several years younger, costs about half as much, and who is a better player pretty much across the board makes sense.  I'll take the best center in the NBA, not the guy who was good multiple franchises ago.

Of course, the real trade-off is Cousins plus what you can sign using the extra cap space or Howard plus all the assets you would have to trade for Cousins.  I happen to think that three Nets picks, Smart, and Olynyk is a reasonable asking price which you might get them to lower by one asset.  So, maybe " other" is the best option.

[MBunge]

The "exact type" of player the Celtics need isn't a whiny quitter with no leadership qualities who has now burned bridges with three franchises. Spending 35% of your cap on a breaking down prima donna non-star is a good way to kill a rebuild.

I'd rather have Mahimi, Ezeli, Pachulia, Horford, or even Big Al.  All should be much cheaper (even Horford won't approach $31 million), and none have the baggage.

I don't really how you hate Howard's personality but don't mind Cousins' personality at all.  They are similar to me.  And Cousins will be on his 3rd team someday too.  Too me they are both clowns.

Cousins is passionate about winning and is fiercely loyal, he improves his game every year, and he's a much better player who makes roughly 40% of the salary that Howard is demanding.

1.  Cousins is a headcase far beyond ANYTHING of which Howard has been accused.

2.  Howard can demand whatever he wants.  That doesn't mean he's going to get it.

3.  Cousins has also never won more than 33 games in any season in his career.  Howard won 36 games as a 19 year old rookie and has been the best player on multiple 50 win teams.

Not wanting Howard makes sense.  Wanting Cousins instead is dumb.

Mike

Haha. When deciding what's "dumb", I'll consider the source.

In my world, taking the guy who is several years younger, costs about half as much, and who is a better player pretty much across the board makes sense.  I'll take the best center in the NBA, not the guy who was good multiple franchises ago.

And that is why GMs lose their jobs.

Cousins has accomplished NOTHING in the NBA.  He's been a problem for coach after coach after coach.  He's been on losing team after losing team after losing team.  And he's only under contract for the next two seasons, at which point he'll be demanding even more money than Dwight is now.

But none of that matters to you because you're blinded by potential.

Dumb.

Mike