Dragan Bender

[Tr1boy]

This is the whole thing with Dragan Bender.  He doesn't have any real major flaws, but he doesn't have any real major stand-out talents either.   The biggest selling point is the fact that he is only 18 years old, and so you hope he can surprise us all and take his game to a whole other level.  That's a big risk though.  He may well just develop into a pretty good all round player who isn't great at anything.

I think it's very unlikely Bender will be a complete bust.  He should (at the very least) be a quality starting center in the NBA for many years.  I just question his upside - does he really have the talent to develop into a big star?  I'm not so sure.

This is where bringing a player in and getting into his head matters.  If he has an elite motor, bbiq, and work ethic, he can be as valuable as Kawhi Leonard.  If he doesn't, he could be a bust.  If Bender is strong in those areas, i would take him over a big man with prototypical size and elite athleticism who is questionable between the ears.

Kawhi Leonard is really not comparable to Bender though.

Leonard always had a ridiculous wingspan for the SF spot, outstanding athleticism, excellent physical strength, and excellent mental toughness (with a 'never back down' attitude).

Guys who have those attributes tend to become outstanding defensive players, but Bender lacks in a few of those areas.  He greatly lacks physical strength, his wingspan is actually only good (rather than amazing) at the PF spot, and he doesn't seem to have a lot of mental toughness.  Even if his motor and work ethic are high, he still looks like somebody who could be easily pushed around - something you cannot say about Leonard ever.

Before somebody questions my comment about his length it's worth noting that Bender is 7'1" with a 7'2" wingspan.  Jared Sullinger is only 6'9" and has a 7'1" wingspan.  Bender certainly doesn't have a disadvantage in terms of wingspan, but he doesn't have the type of advantage a lot of people seem to think he has.  Dwight Howard for example is only 6'10" and yet he has a 7'5" wingspan.  Lemarcus Aldridge is 6'11" and has a 7'5" wingspan.  Pau Gasol is 7'0" and has a 7'5" wingspan.  Tim Duncan is 7'0" and has a 7'5" wingspan.  Zach Randolph is 6'9" and has a 7'5" wingspan.  From memory Dirk also has a wingspan in the 7'5" range.

There are a lot of big men in this league who are a lot longer then Bender is, and there are certainly a lot of big men who are a lot stronger then Bender is, so unless he can prove he has superior skill (which I'm not seeing at this point) he might well struggle to score and defend against elite NBA bigs.

Simmons has the same problem as far as length goes (even moreso, in fact) but he can somewhat make up for that with elite physical strength, elite athleticism and a rediculous array of skills.

People compare Bender to Porzingis, but Poirzingis is 7'3"+ with a 7'6" wingspan and is already a very skilled shooter and a very capable scorer.  Bender lacks that major physical advantage, and looks less skilled (although he is two years younger then Porzingis too).

I'm not saying that Bender is directly comparable to Leonard.  What I am saying is that Leonard, while a guy with a huge wingspan, was seen as a guy with solid athleticism, but nothing elite when it came to strength, speed, or leaping ability.  At the time of the draft, he was seen as a jack of all trades kind of player who did a lot of things well, but not spectacularly well at anything.  He was seen as a strong rebounder and expected to be a good defender, but questions about which position he would play made it unclear how those skills would translate to the NBA.

I suspect that Kawhi Leonard's brain in Dragan Bender's body is a superstar in the NBA.  Kawhi Leonard has an elite brain, so it is unlikely Bender is that strong mentally.  Given that, I'd still take Dragan Bender's brain in Dragan Bender's body over Fab Melo's brain in Deandre Jordan's body, is what I'm saying.

Now I have seen it all.  Comparing bender to Leonard

Leonard Jack of all trades type ? The guy is a top 5 calibre player in the league.  I will carry you on my back type

We already know how dominating he can be on the defensive end. He can be just as dominating on the offensive end , but the Spurs don't play a one man show type of ball usually. They don't have to .   but I have seen plenty if times when they are struggling ,Leonard taking over

Bender is no Leonard. Not right now . maybe not ever

Cmon

Maybe re-reading what LooseCannon actually said would help here.

what? read BEFORE you post? sacrilege!! 

but back to the thread. i like what i am reading here and thank all the posters for providing a complex, well researched, and insightful set of arguments. this is one of the better threads i have seen on cb in a while.

oh, and i would pick bender at 3. 

Glad you are not our GM.

Oh no, I'm sure he feels crushed.. Weren't you championing Mickey at 16 last year? Pretty certain that would look like a bad pick right now with the number of NBA minutes he has

wow good comeback there.  =D

And Mickey is a solid prospect. Good enough in Danny's books to get a 4 year deal.

Tell me how many 2nd round picks get such a contract

No I agree he was a great pick at 31. But at 16 he would have been a massive reach. I'm just saying it's a bit rich for you to go throwing out insults to people's opinions. Do you thank God that Jonathon Givony is not our draft specialist? Because he's had Bender at 3 most of the season

And Rozier is not a reach at 16?

Listen , we don't know who is a reach etc until after another season, maybe 2

What I do know about Mickey or Rozier though is that they held their own vs top calibre prospects/competition

Something Dirk proved vs the US pre draft. Something Saric proved

We have little to no idea how bender would perform vs better prospects/the US team.   Lots of other question marks for a 3-5 calibre prospect

[CFAN38]

I can't help but think that last nights performance from Jerebko helped to show the potential value of bender. Jerebko and bender are players cut from a simulate cloth in terms of NBA player niche. Only bender projects to the apex of this niche. Bender like Jerebko has excellent mobility for his size and has some ability both offensively and defensively to player either forward position. Now at 7'1 bender is not going to be able to guard many NBA starting SF but will be fine in switches. Something we also see in the 6'10 Jerebko.

Imagining a 7'1 Jerebko who is a better passer and better off the dribble gives me hope for bender if the Cs do not land a top two pick and can not trade for a star.

[kozlodoev]

I can't help but think that last nights performance from Jerebko helped to show the potential value of bender. Jerebko and bender are players cut from a simulate cloth in terms of NBA player niche. Only bender projects to the apex of this niche. Bender like Jerebko has excellent mobility for his size and has some ability both offensively and defensively to player either forward position. Now at 7'1 bender is not going to be able to guard many NBA starting SF but will be fine in switches. Something we also see in the 6'10 Jerebko.

Imagining a 7'1 Jerebko who is a better passer and better off the dribble gives me hope for bender if the Cs do not land a top two pick and can not trade for a star.

Imagine a 7'1 Larry Bird. Wow. And we can get this guy with the #3 pick? Stop the presses, we're winning the next 10 championships.

Jerebko, for the record, did horrible on switches yesterday. Every time he ended up on a guard it was pretty much a free basket for Atl. I have no idea what Brad S was thinking with this defensive plan.

[konkmv]

Lets hope we get a top2 pick to avoid the bender choice

[CoachBo]

Bender is a stiff.

[CFAN38]

I can't help but think that last nights performance from Jerebko helped to show the potential value of bender. Jerebko and bender are players cut from a simulate cloth in terms of NBA player niche. Only bender projects to the apex of this niche. Bender like Jerebko has excellent mobility for his size and has some ability both offensively and defensively to player either forward position. Now at 7'1 bender is not going to be able to guard many NBA starting SF but will be fine in switches. Something we also see in the 6'10 Jerebko.

Imagining a 7'1 Jerebko who is a better passer and better off the dribble gives me hope for bender if the Cs do not land a top two pick and can not trade for a star.

Imagine a 7'1 Larry Bird. Wow. And we can get this guy with the #3 pick? Stop the presses, we're winning the next 10 championships.

Jerebko, for the record, did horrible on switches yesterday. Every time he ended up on a guard it was pretty much a free basket for Atl. I have no idea what Brad S was thinking with this defensive plan.

By no means am I saying Jerebko is an amazing player. He is what he is a solid end of the rotaional 3/4 who can play ok defense, limited turn over offense and spread the court. The point I'm trying to make is that jerebko's skill set was a better fit in the last game then sully a traditional PF. This is the way the NBA is turning. Teams are evolvin to essentially operate with two SFs and one post player. Jerebko represents an end of the rotation 3/4 with the basic skill set that teams need at the PF. Bender is a high ceiling playing in this niche. If he is the playe many scouts and draft pundits think he is he could give the Cs or any team that drafts him an major advantage for the next decade. Ask your self how good would Toni kukoc be in today's NBA?

[Tr1boy]

Bender is a stiff.

yup. Can't see the Celts picking him

[hwangjini_1]

Bender is a stiff.

he is many things but a stiff? where do you get that from? i have only seen limited videos and analyses, but one of the things he seems to bring to the table is fluidity and ability to run the court.

can you show us the videos etc. that show he is a stiff please?

[alldaboston]

I can't help but think that last nights performance from Jerebko helped to show the potential value of bender. Jerebko and bender are players cut from a simulate cloth in terms of NBA player niche. Only bender projects to the apex of this niche. Bender like Jerebko has excellent mobility for his size and has some ability both offensively and defensively to player either forward position. Now at 7'1 bender is not going to be able to guard many NBA starting SF but will be fine in switches. Something we also see in the 6'10 Jerebko.

Imagining a 7'1 Jerebko who is a better passer and better off the dribble gives me hope for bender if the Cs do not land a top two pick and can not trade for a star.

Imagine a 7'1 Larry Bird. Wow. And we can get this guy with the #3 pick? Stop the presses, we're winning the next 10 championships.

Jerebko, for the record, did horrible on switches yesterday. Every time he ended up on a guard it was pretty much a free basket for Atl. I have no idea what Brad S was thinking with this defensive plan.

By no means am I saying Jerebko is an amazing player. He is what he is a solid end of the rotaional 3/4 who can play ok defense, limited turn over offense and spread the court. The point I'm trying to make is that jerebko's skill set was a better fit in the last game then sully a traditional PF. This is the way the NBA is turning. Teams are evolvin to essentially operate with two SFs and one post player. Jerebko represents an end of the rotation 3/4 with the basic skill set that teams need at the PF. Bender is a high ceiling playing in this niche. If he is the playe many scouts and draft pundits think he is he could give the Cs or any team that drafts him an major advantage for the next decade. Ask your self how good would Toni kukoc be in today's NBA?

I'm not a fan of Bender (as you can tell from my sig), but you make good points. TP

I also feel I was a little premature in declaring Bender a bust already. Im going to try to watch some film of him this week (I'm busy so I'll see how much I get to) to try to form a better personal opinion about him.

[CoachBo]

Bender is a stiff.

he is many things but a stiff? where do you get that from? i have only seen limited videos and analyses, but one of the things he seems to bring to the table is fluidity and ability to run the court.

can you show us the videos etc. that show he is a stiff please?

Checked his performance lately?

This would be a disastrous pick on the level of Ainge's bizarre flirtation with Yi.

Or Why? As he later became known.

Wasting a lottery pick on this guy would be grounds for firing Ainge.

[hwangjini_1]

I can't help but think that last nights performance from Jerebko helped to show the potential value of bender. Jerebko and bender are players cut from a simulate cloth in terms of NBA player niche. Only bender projects to the apex of this niche. Bender like Jerebko has excellent mobility for his size and has some ability both offensively and defensively to player either forward position. Now at 7'1 bender is not going to be able to guard many NBA starting SF but will be fine in switches. Something we also see in the 6'10 Jerebko.

Imagining a 7'1 Jerebko who is a better passer and better off the dribble gives me hope for bender if the Cs do not land a top two pick and can not trade for a star.

Imagine a 7'1 Larry Bird. Wow. And we can get this guy with the #3 pick? Stop the presses, we're winning the next 10 championships.

Jerebko, for the record, did horrible on switches yesterday. Every time he ended up on a guard it was pretty much a free basket for Atl. I have no idea what Brad S was thinking with this defensive plan.

actually, over on SoSH there was a pre-game discussion on adjustments CBS might make. the key was how to spread the floor with outside shooting so as to free up IT.

one of the central solutions was to park jerekbo outside the 3 point line, let him shoot (41% this year), and see what happens. games 1 & 2 showed atlanta's defensive scheme was working and desperate measures were in order. this was to be combined with having turner become the ball handler and IT play a run through picks and shoot like bradley role.

the downside to this offensive strategy was having jerebko on defense, as well as turner. on defense this is a problem. but the offense was what the celtics needed.

CBS actually did some of this and it worked.

sorry to hijack the thread on bender.

[PhoSita]

I can't help but think that last nights performance from Jerebko helped to show the potential value of bender. Jerebko and bender are players cut from a simulate cloth in terms of NBA player niche. Only bender projects to the apex of this niche. Bender like Jerebko has excellent mobility for his size and has some ability both offensively and defensively to player either forward position. Now at 7'1 bender is not going to be able to guard many NBA starting SF but will be fine in switches. Something we also see in the 6'10 Jerebko.

Imagining a 7'1 Jerebko who is a better passer and better off the dribble gives me hope for bender if the Cs do not land a top two pick and can not trade for a star.

I was thinking something similar.

I suspect that Bender has a long way to go to reach where Jerebko is at physically, and probably also in terms of his overall skill level.

But yeah, if the scouting report on Bender is accurate and reliable at all, it seems like he ought to be able to play the kind of role Jerebko played last night, only with greater upside because he's a few inches taller and might one day have better driving / 1-on-1 scoring ability.

[Jarrin John]

I can't help but think that last nights performance from Jerebko helped to show the potential value of bender. Jerebko and bender are players cut from a simulate cloth in terms of NBA player niche. Only bender projects to the apex of this niche. Bender like Jerebko has excellent mobility for his size and has some ability both offensively and defensively to player either forward position. Now at 7'1 bender is not going to be able to guard many NBA starting SF but will be fine in switches. Something we also see in the 6'10 Jerebko.

Imagining a 7'1 Jerebko who is a better passer and better off the dribble gives me hope for bender if the Cs do not land a top two pick and can not trade for a star.

Imagine a 7'1 Larry Bird. Wow. And we can get this guy with the #3 pick? Stop the presses, we're winning the next 10 championships.

Jerebko, for the record, did horrible on switches yesterday. Every time he ended up on a guard it was pretty much a free basket for Atl. I have no idea what Brad S was thinking with this defensive plan.

Interesting opinion. I was just reading an article that said just the opposite. Except this article had actual statistics to support their position. Check it out: http://www.celticsblog.com/2016/4/23/11493502/jonas-jerebko-versatile-defense-integral-to-boston-celtics-game-3-atlanta-hawks-nba-playoffs

[Smartacus]

Been hearing some Minny fans high on Bender. They say having two 7+ footers that have the defensive versatility to switch onto smaller players and space the offense out to the 3 point line could be devastating. Even when i brought up that the Thibbs signing puts them into win now mode they were still content to remain patient and develop their core.

My thoughts were that if they want him... take him. I'm by no means as down on Bender as many around here -justifiably- are, but I would like for us to take someone farther along in their development curve.

Though that being said for me he's an easy case of I wouldn't want the pick, unless we make the pick. If Danny takes Bender with our first I'd be ecstatic because it means that he thinks that's Bender has enough talent to warrant arguably our most valuable draft selection in a decade. He's no longer a mystery Euro that we might not see for 3 years, we know that he's coming over so therefore if we were to take him it would mean that Danny think that's he's a future cornerstone of our front court and I'd find that pretty [dang] exciting.

[MaxAMillion]

Been hearing some Minny fans high on Bender. They say having two 7+ footers that have the defensive versatility to switch onto smaller players and space the offense out to the 3 point line could be devastating. Even when i brought up that the Thibbs signing puts them into win now mode they were still content to remain patient and develop their core.

My thoughts were that if they want him... take him. I'm by no means as down on Bender as many around here -justifiably- are, but I would like for us to take someone farther along in their development curve.

Though that being said for me he's an easy case of I wouldn't want the pick, unless we make the pick. If Danny takes Bender with our first I'd be ecstatic because it means that he thinks that's Bender has enough talent to warrant arguably our most valuable draft selection in a decade. He's no longer a mystery Euro that we might not see for 3 years, we know that he's coming over so therefore if we were to take him it would mean that Danny think that's he's a future cornerstone of our front court and I'd find that pretty [dang] exciting.

So what? DA also thought Fab Melo would be the shot blocker and defensive player the team needed. He thought Young could be a perimeter shooting option for the team. Just cause he thinks it don't make it so.