Dragan Bender

[walker834]

I think Bender is just as good a prospect as Simmons or anyone in this draft though if not better because of his skillset and style of play.  He's younger is all.

He's a rare player like that.  Not many players in the nba have his skill set either.

I would definately consider him over more proven players for that reason.  He doesn't have any red flags either to my knowledge.

All things considered things are pointing to him being a good player unless he just can't handle the physical style of the nba.  That's the one red flag i see, but he seems to have a really good attitude and is doing the right things.

I'd rather take a chance on that then sell ourselves short with a star player that doesn't necessarily fit us. 

We have a good team.  Stevens is going to get the most out of his players.  He can do that with proven stars as well.  But guys like Love, Butler, Cousins, etc aren't without their flaws themselves.

Ainge was able to find the perfect storm pairing Kg with Ray and Pierce and getting them to play together.  Stevens could do the same things but I still wouldn't sell myself short in ways.

Stevens is a good coach and is going to get the most out of his guys regardless.

[Celtics4ever]

He's a rare player like that.  Not many players in the nba have his skill set either.

That is true,most NBA players would score 25+ PPG in the league he is in.

[walker834]

He's 18 years old.  He doesn't play.  He is still learning the game.  In games he plays he produces.  Rubio was the same thing.  So was Porzingis.  Dirk and guys like that were similar as well.

[walker834]

He is a year behind Porzingis really.   Porzingis was a year older coming in.  Averaged 11 ppg his final year overseas.  Averaged 6 ppg the year before.  I've said all that though.

Porzingis was 19 when he came into the NBA.  Bender is 18 and  a little younger.  There isn't a huge difference between the two.

I'd rather draft a guy like Kevin Garnett in ways out of highschool if i feel he has that kind of upside.  Kobe Bryant slid in drafts.  Look how he turned out.

[Denis998]

I dont even see the comparison between the two. Bender is Croatian. Porzingus is a Lativian Gangbanger. (BS Reference)

[walker834]

That's like saying Kobe Bryant would  be bad because Kevin Garnett was good though.  You make no sense.

Kevin Garnett was from South Carolina.  Kobe was from Philly. Who cares.

[Big333223]

After Dirk, the NBA suddenly became enamoured with Interntaional ball and scouts started overrating guys they didn't actually know anything about. Darko being the prime example but I think there were a lot more (Someone else mentioned Tskitishvili, who went #5 in 2002).

After those big busts, the NBA does a much better job scouting interntaional players. What was the last, high profile, international bust in the draft? I know Dante Exum wasn't really meeting expectations before he got hurt but he seemed like he was playing better and even when he was drafted there were concerns from scouts that they just hadn't seen him enough. I feel like now, if a player like Bender is rated high it's because he deserves to be, not like it was 15 years ago.

[walker834]

Weird thing is i was never high on Exum or Tskitishvili.  I argued Smart vs Exum all that offseason.  Same with that other guy who got a lot of hype Orlando took.  Not Gordon.  I liked him.  Gordon and Smart were the two guys i wanted at 6.  Didn't want Randle.  Didnt think Embiid was worth trading up because of the foot and hype, for but liked him when he was a sleeper.

I liked Smart because of his  leadership, defense and ability to do different things and give us options with Rondo.  I thought the way he shot it would take time in the nba. He would come off screens and was more a volume shooter at the college level.  Didnt even see him as a pg but more just a basketball player who could give us options with rondo but also play off the ball and develop.

I had Smart as my number one player for the C's that year on my big board.  Someone said i lied but it's there on another forum.  I wasnt buying the Wiggins and Parker hype overly.  I liked them and would have traded up for them possibly but wasn't going to sell teh farm for them.  We had jeff green at the time and thought we could do better than Wiggins or Parker ultimately.  I still like them though.  They basically are what i thought they'd be.  Kidd doesnt utilize parker well enough. I'd trade for them even still for the right price or situation.

[walker834]

Hezonja was last year.  Didn't like him.  I liked Okafor.  Didnt like or dislike Deangelo russell either way.  I like Russell as a player though.  Thought towns was out of our reach. I like POrzingis or Okafor as the guys to trade up for. I liked Stein or Turner too but didnt think they would slide or were worth trading up for.  Didnt really like anyone else.  I felt like we could find a guard similar at 16 who was as good as the guys being hyped up.  Did like stanley johnson and Winslow though a bit. That was basically it.

[Eja117]

He's a rare player like that.  Not many players in the nba have his skill set either.

That is true,most NBA players would score 25+ PPG in the league he is in.

But probably not most college freshmen

[walker834]

Bender is not the typical guy i'd hype up either.  I could be totally wrong but I'm hyping him this year.  I liked him at first.  Then was like we have KO why....... Then i watched him and really like him.  I can see the bust potential. He isn't darko though.  He's nothing like him. Darko was slow and was drinking or something.  We have so many picks too im in a gambling mood a bit.

I feel like Ainge is going to target size and shooting  but I don't think he'd be opposed to taking a shot on a young guy if he likes him.

[LooseCannon]

I think he has less athleticism but more upside compared to Giannis at the time he was drafted.  His potential to function as that mythical unicorn, a stretch four who, rather than being a defensive liability who makes up for it on offense, could actually be a plus defender, possibly at multiple positions, makes him a dream player for the new school of basketball.  If the Celtics drafted him and he gets near to his ceiling, he could be more important to Boston under Brad Stevens than Draymond Green is to Golden State.  There's also enough uncertainty about him that he could turn out to be a Darko-level bust.  There is a very good chance that he might present the best shot at HOF-level talent wherever the Nets pick lands, but that the risk factor may still make it reasonable to go with a safer choice.

[loco_91]

Ind workouts will make or break benders standings in the draft

He is a poor rebounder considering length.   I get he needs to add strength but from what I have seen is not willing to get his hands dirty

He plays like a sf on both ends but not is not a sf and can't guard sfs ft

He can absolutely guard SFs. And probably a lot of SGs, too... Agree that workouts will be decisive for him though.

Um, no. I know that this is what Bender fans hang their hat on, but this is not going to happen.

Why not? Every scouting report I've seen on the guy says he has the mobility to guard SF's. If he puts on 20 lbs (which shouldn't be a problem given his age) and doesn't lose much of that mobility, I don't see why he won't be able to guard 3 positions in a couple years.

First of all, he's never played against anything remotely resembling NBA SFs. Second, there is a reason you don't see 7ft tall SFs, Third, European scouts (who often write these reports) often look like they have zero idea what the NBA game is about.

To cite Givony, "He’s regularly tasked with staying in front of significantly shorter small forwards on the perimeter and does not look bad doing so." That is in Israel, and "does not look bad" doesn't mean he's good to play the position full-time. If you assk me, it probably translates into "he may (or may not) be quick enough to defend PFs on the perimeter" in the NBA.

Do you really not think he's quick enough to guard SFs? Just re-watched the defense portion of DX's video on him, and his quickness really looks elite to me. Maybe not quiiite the freakish outlier that WCS is, but I can't think of another recent 7 foot prospect who's quicker than him (and I can think of plenty of SFs who are slower). I think he'll have way more trouble with post-up PFs than with SFs, at least initially.

[crimson_stallion]

Honestly, I'm not that high on him.

The problem with bender is that I see him as the perfect example of the whole "jack of all trades and master of none" analogy.

Bender is good at a lot of things, but I just don't see that one single area where he is elite. 

Defensively he can defend perimeter players with his mobility and is a decent shot blocker...but his lack of physical strength and toughness limits him as a one-on-one post defender and there are questions about whether he'll ever be more than just "pretty good" as an overall defender.  I don't think he has the defensive upside of somebody like Ingram.

Offensively he can pass and handle the ball - but he isn't really elite at either of those things, merely "solid".  He isn't a big man who can handle the ball like a guard (e.g. Magic Johnson) so much as just a pretty good handling/passing big man (e.g. Olynyk). 

He isn't a lights out shooter (like Dirk).  He isn't even really a good shooter (like Olynyk).  He's just a guy who has a half decent jumper and the perceived POTENTIAL to become a good shooter (as Sully was believed to be at draft time). 

He's not by any means an outstanding rebounder like say, Sully or Randle.  He's merely a decent rebounder, like Marc Gasol or Dirk.   

At 7'1" he has pretty good height, but his wingspan (at 7'2") is good rather than outlandish.  Likewise he is quite mobile for a man of his size, but he's not an "Anthony Davis" or "Dwight Howard" caliber athlete.

This is the whole thing with Dragan Bender.  He doesn't have any real major flaws, but he doesn't have any real major stand-out talents either.   The biggest selling point is the fact that he is only 18 years old, and so you hope he can surprise us all and take his game to a whole other level.  That's a big risk though.  He may well just develop into a pretty good all round player who isn't great at anything.

I think it's very unlikely Bender will be a complete bust.  He should (at the very least) be a quality starting center in the NBA for many years.  I just question his upside - does he really have the talent to develop into a big star?  I'm not so sure.

Ingram and Simmons clearly have that potential. 

Simmons is a 6'10" / 240 pound guy who runs/dribbles/passes like an all-star point guard, finishes like an athletic small forward, and rebounds like a power forward.  His floor is probably Josh Smith (who was still a fringe all star for many years) and his ceiling is Magic Johnson (an all-time great).

Ingram is a freakishly long, incredibly athletic wing who can shoot, pass, defend and handle the ball.  If he can put on some muscle, there is almost no limit to how could become.  His floor is probably Tayshaun Prince, and his ceiling is Kevin Durant. 

Bender is much harder to pick, because he has such an odd combination of talents and physical attributes. I feel that his floor is a skinnier and more mobile Kelly Olynyk, and his ceiling is maybe Andrea Bargnani but with less scoring ability.

I have more confidence in Hield than Bender, because Hield at least has one area where he is truly dominant (scoring), and also has other complimentary skills where he either is (passing, ball handling) or has potential to become solid (defence).  I think his floor is Jamaal Crawford and his ceiling is Damien Lillard .

[crimson_stallion]

Ind workouts will make or break benders standings in the draft

He is a poor rebounder considering length.   I get he needs to add strength but from what I have seen is not willing to get his hands dirty

He plays like a sf on both ends but not is not a sf and can't guard sfs ft

He can absolutely guard SFs. And probably a lot of SGs, too... Agree that workouts will be decisive for him though.

Um, no. I know that this is what Bender fans hang their hat on, but this is not going to happen.

Why not? Every scouting report I've seen on the guy says he has the mobility to guard SF's. If he puts on 20 lbs (which shouldn't be a problem given his age) and doesn't lose much of that mobility, I don't see why he won't be able to guard 3 positions in a couple years.

First of all, he's never played against anything remotely resembling NBA SFs. Second, there is a reason you don't see 7ft tall SFs, Third, European scouts (who often write these reports) often look like they have zero idea what the NBA game is about.

To cite Givony, "He’s regularly tasked with staying in front of significantly shorter small forwards on the perimeter and does not look bad doing so." That is in Israel, and "does not look bad" doesn't mean he's good to play the position full-time. If you assk me, it probably translates into "he may (or may not) be quick enough to defend PFs on the perimeter" in the NBA.

Do you really not think he's quick enough to guard SFs? Just re-watched the defense portion of DX's video on him, and his quickness really looks elite to me. Maybe not quiiite the freakish outlier that WCS is, but I can't think of another recent 7 foot prospect who's quicker than him (and I can think of plenty of SFs who are slower). I think he'll have way more trouble with post-up PFs than with SFs, at least initially.

I think he might struggle a bit with both. 

I think he can keep most SF's in front of him, but not sure how he'll do do against more athletic ones like Lebron, George, etc.  But then the ones he can't keep in front of, he can probably bother with his height / length. 

As you say, I think he will struggle more against long, physical big men like Drummond, Cousins, Monroe, etc.