Dragan Bender

[kozlodoev]

Ind workouts will make or break benders standings in the draft

He is a poor rebounder considering length.   I get he needs to add strength but from what I have seen is not willing to get his hands dirty

He plays like a sf on both ends but not is not a sf and can't guard sfs ft

He can absolutely guard SFs. And probably a lot of SGs, too... Agree that workouts will be decisive for him though.

Um, no. I know that this is what Bender fans hang their hat on, but this is not going to happen.

[walker834]

Besides out of that list I don't think i was ever high on any of those guys.   Pau, Rubio, Yi, yao ming, dirk, tim duncan are the only foreign prospects that i was ever high on that I can recall right now. I dont delve that deep into it though.  I was wrong on yi but had the big ones that were pretty obvious. 

Oh also was all over porzingis last year

[alldaboston]

Besides out of that list I don't think i was ever high on any of those guys.   Pau, Rubio, Yi, yao ming, dirk, tim duncan are the only foreign prospects that i was ever high on that I can recall right now. I dont delve that deep into it though.  I was wrong on yi but had the big ones that were pretty obvious. 

Oh also was all over porzingis last year

How do you feel about Zhou Qi? I think if he adds strength he could be fairly solid. He's already got a good offensive game, albeit against inferior opponents. What say you?

[walker834]

Kristaps was a guy i wanted to trade up for last year

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=78853.msg1905563#msg1905563

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=78805.msg1904684#msg1904684

thing is i liked stein and turner as well but kristaps was my guy.  I compared them.  I wasn't wrong.  I was targetting Okafor or Kristaps and a big man  if we were to trade up.  I didn't think we could get Towns and had them ranked Okafor, Porzingis, Stein, Turner although thought last years draft was pretty strong that way.

Not many if any people here liked Kristaps and I know they didn't. 

[walker834]

Besides out of that list I don't think i was ever high on any of those guys.   Pau, Rubio, Yi, yao ming, dirk, tim duncan are the only foreign prospects that i was ever high on that I can recall right now. I dont delve that deep into it though.  I was wrong on yi but had the big ones that were pretty obvious. 

Oh also was all over porzingis last year

How do you feel about Zhou Qi? I think if he adds strength he could be fairly solid. He's already got a good offensive game, albeit against inferior opponents. What say you?

I havent even looked at him to be honest.

[walker834]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmd4s2c5BhU

Zhou Qi.   just watched but not all that impressed.  He has a good skill set but his legs and how he moves  he does not appear to be very mobile. He floats around though.  His post movements seem somewhat scripted and predictable.  He doesn't have great size either.  That is the difference between him and bender to me is Bender might be skinny but he moves like a guard.  He also has range of a guard.  His shooting also isn't flat footed. Zhou Qi does appear to float on defense though and on drives to the basket.

That's a 2 second analysis though.  HE's 7 feet and trying to handle the ball and drives to the hoop but can't post, shoot with range and doesn't have great bulk. Why would we want that? He looks like shaq in transition and posting up without shaqs size

In the nba he will get killed handling the ball like that.  He does not have great speed or ball handling to do that.  Ilguaskis had some skills but would play stupid like that.  He's not Vlade.  He doesn't appear to be on their level to me.   If you look at bender vs him there is a difference because bender is outletting the ball and using his speed to get ahead of the defense in transition. Zhou Qi doesn't have that kind of speed. He more looks like a cross between Yi and is trying to play like Vlade or Ilgauskis but not that talented.   I don't see why we would draft that. His strengths are really on short bursts and drives to the hoop which as a 7 footer isn't that great.

[Big333223]

Ind workouts will make or break benders standings in the draft

He is a poor rebounder considering length.   I get he needs to add strength but from what I have seen is not willing to get his hands dirty

He plays like a sf on both ends but not is not a sf and can't guard sfs ft

He can absolutely guard SFs. And probably a lot of SGs, too... Agree that workouts will be decisive for him though.

Um, no. I know that this is what Bender fans hang their hat on, but this is not going to happen.

Why not? Every scouting report I've seen on the guy says he has the mobility to guard SF's. If he puts on 20 lbs (which shouldn't be a problem given his age) and doesn't lose much of that mobility, I don't see why he won't be able to guard 3 positions in a couple years.

[walker834]

I agree that he looks like he can play SF.  He is a faster version of KO.  The issue is we have KO. We also have Crowder but having Bender in there to spell them and play some center once he bulks up isn't out of the question.  Sully is a good rebounder.  Bender can block shots.  He could take amir's spot in a couple years. Amir is a mobile guy like that but Bender has more range. he's a better shot blocker than Zeller and has more range as well.  He isn't the post defender Amir is but could be in a few years. He wouldn't be a low post guy like Cousins.  Its really a choice in ways.  It's a little weird how it all fits. He's like KO but can block shots and is faster.  KO is slower but more crafty.  KO is no slouch in the open court though either. He knows how to get out in front.  They play similar. Sully is better at rebounding and outletting the ball than KO.  Bender seems to do it all to me. He has to develop is all.  He also just isn't demarcus cousins or Kevin Love for that matter.  Klove is more like sullinger in that he rebounds and outlets it but is not a strong post defender but is a shooter like KO from the outside.   BEnder is a twig right now and nt a great rebounder but can do it all. Cousins is not a twig and can do it all. MOre an interior presence and not fast on the break like Bender is. Cousins you see him bringing it up sometimes when he really shouldnt be.   Simmons is likea taller  Lebron without the attitude not as strong a defender but could be.  All different players. I really like Benders potential and game.

Bender to me is a 7 foot chandler parsons who can block shots ultimately imo. He's a faster Dirk NOwitski who can shoot with more range and block shots. He's somewhat similar to Kirelenko that way although i think he is more an offensive player than that.

I don't know who I'd compare him to.  He's his own player.  he even has some amir johnson to his game but with more range.

He's Dragan Bender.  With a name like that I don't know who else he could be. If DA agrees and takes him I would be thrilled.

[walker834]

The reason I am so enthralled with him is he is the closest thing I've seen to a 7 footer who plays like a guard and actually has the quickness, finesse and skillset to do it while also not sacrificing his length and shot blocking ability.  Simmons is tall as well and more physically developed, but primarily plays on the ball. He can play off the ball and is a more developed in ways but he also isn't a shot blocker. Simmons has athleticism and strength and can really handle the ball in the full and half court like Lebron does. Bender is something else. He's 18 and has to develop but could be better ultimately.

[Yenohb]

Good comparison IMO is Jerebko, just taller, can block shots and with better court vision.

[walker834]

Good comparison IMO is Jerebko, just taller, can block shots and with better court vision.

That is a good comparison. He's jerebko but really good. He could take jerebko's spot.  he's potentially a superstar version of jerebko which from the celtics perspective is what I want in a star player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Acfqr0vlZOc

good and bad but he's only 18 and i can see the assortment and talent.

[kozlodoev]

Ind workouts will make or break benders standings in the draft

He is a poor rebounder considering length.   I get he needs to add strength but from what I have seen is not willing to get his hands dirty

He plays like a sf on both ends but not is not a sf and can't guard sfs ft

He can absolutely guard SFs. And probably a lot of SGs, too... Agree that workouts will be decisive for him though.

Um, no. I know that this is what Bender fans hang their hat on, but this is not going to happen.

Why not? Every scouting report I've seen on the guy says he has the mobility to guard SF's. If he puts on 20 lbs (which shouldn't be a problem given his age) and doesn't lose much of that mobility, I don't see why he won't be able to guard 3 positions in a couple years.

First of all, he's never played against anything remotely resembling NBA SFs. Second, there is a reason you don't see 7ft tall SFs, Third, European scouts (who often write these reports) often look like they have zero idea what the NBA game is about.

To cite Givony, "He’s regularly tasked with staying in front of significantly shorter small forwards on the perimeter and does not look bad doing so." That is in Israel, and "does not look bad" doesn't mean he's good to play the position full-time. If you assk me, it probably translates into "he may (or may not) be quick enough to defend PFs on the perimeter" in the NBA.

[walker834]

What would be wrong with a team like this though?

Pg-isaiah, smart, rozier
sg-bradley, smart, rj
sf-crowder, turner, young
pf-sully, ko, bender(taking jerebko's and Zeller's spot)
c-amir or make a move for a center this offseason like horford or cousins. Maybe keep Zeller instead.

The way i see it is fans are so quick to say draft this guy or that guy. I'm not opposed to simmons but how does he really fit this team?  he would basically take turners spot.  We can still possibly try to move sully and a guy like bender for love.  We can still look to upgrade hte center spot and our shooting with the other picks.  Players like rj, young, jerebko and a lot of guys are expendable depending on scenario but i still like the core of this team and not limiting ourselves as far as moves we can make.  Upgrading bradley to hield on paper is all well and good but it still makes no sense in ways.  I'm not opposed to Simmons or guys like that either. But if i had to rank things.  Drafting a guy like bender for the now and future to develop isn't a bad thing.

We have too many picks as it stands.  I'm just not in that camp of we draft so and so because they are rated this or that. It's how it fits longterm and everything in between. just trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together and there are different ways to do that though. Ingram is out there too.

Bender may not fit us.  Ainge might decide to go another direction where a team like the Suns might really like him. Or even the lakers. Who knows right now.

I agree european scouts dont always know what they are talking about.  Neither do American ones.  They are trying to hype up these guys, why i just go by what i can see.  Zhuo Qi is a good example of that.  Thon Maker is another one. They are trying to market these guys.

I think Bender is a guy who could fit us short term and long term but that's me.

[walker834]

Bender to me could fit in taking jerebko and Zellers minutes off the bat pretty easily and long term he would give us a lot of options.  He might not have the value or marketability of a guy like Simmons but trade value I'd rather keep our top pick anyways.  His marketability may grow really fast too.  But my thinking is you want to keep a guy like that.  That's the whole point of drafting him.

Our objective this offseason should be to improve our shooting and shotblocking and interior in general while also getting  a star somehow. Lots of ways to do that.

Disrupting chemistry is another thing but it depends on who it's for. I know people love Kevin Durant.  I'm not opposed to Kevin Durant but I'm also not like a lot of people where I think Kevin Durant is going to absolutely fit in Boston.  I actually thought he would definately consider it here because of Stevens and it's a good alternative to a team like GS or OKC.  But I'm not sold he comes here or even would be the right fit here at this stage in his career. Boogie, Love etc.  They are all still kind of pipe dreams at this point.

It's about options.  Bender is a young guy who would give us another option.

[kozlodoev]

Bender to me could fit in taking jerebko and Zellers minutes off the bat pretty easily and long term he would give us a lot of options.

I'm sorry, but Bender is light years away to being able to take minutes from Jerebko or Zeller.