Yet another dissapointment in Marcus Smart thread (Bob Ryan comments)

[Alleyoopster]

All of his advanced numbers indicate that his team plays better with him on the court than off it, that he is in essence a net positive.

Sure his poor shooting is disappointing, but I don't think the situation is as dire as some on Celticsblog would indicate.

Since he's able to positively contribute while putting up terrible shooting numbers, if he ever simply becomes an average shooter he'll be a game changer.

This is a good article by Forsberg on Smart http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4722575/missing-the-point-marcus-smart-making-impact-despite-shooting-woes

But dismissing his offensive production based on his shooting stats alone is simply lazy. It ignores the fact that, in that same 16-game span, the Celtics are averaging 105.1 points per 100 possessions with Smart on the floor, which is 2.6 points better than Smart's offensive rating in 34 appearances before the All-Star break.

What's more, Smart's post-All-Star net rating of plus-2.7 ranks second on the team behind only Jae Crowder (plus-5.1), a player whose shoes Smart has tried to help fill while Crowder has been sidelined the past five games due to a high ankle sprain. As spectacular as All-Star Isaiah Thomas has been recently, even he's only plus-2.1 in net rating since the All-Star break.

I'll admit I haven't been watching the games of late (I cut the TV cord for now) so I'm not up to date on seeing what's going on. But, my feeling is that even though Smart's offensive game is not on par for what we would want in a player, he more than makes up for it on defense.
It's likely not as noticeable now that Crowder is out of the lineup. So many games this year seemed to be determine by the combination 1-2 punch they provided on defense.

For example, on play Crowder would tip the ball away from a defender. Then, Smart would yank the ball off another player. What happens next...another steal by a Celtic player.

We will never know the psyche of the opposing teams after these occurances. My guess is that it has almost totally incapacitated them at times. No matter what they attempt the Celtics seemed to have answer. Obviously, this didn't happen all the time, but it happen often to account for a good number of wins. 

I wonder how much better this team might be if they had a defensive stopper in the middle? What team would want to face Crowder, Smart and player X? The game would be half over before it began. Add to this you have defensive scrappers like Bradley and now Rozier? 

[Snakehead]

I hope next year Smart gets to run point more.  I think that will help his game a lot and that is where he is best on offense right now.  And hopefully he just keeps putting jumpshots up.

And I wait to kill Smart on shooting because he has been injured and you have to wait to see a decent sample.  Great shooters can go cold even so he could as well.  Unfortunately his shot just isn't there.  For me there's the hope that he works hard and I like his aggressiveness if his shooting improves.  But if he got to really run some point I think that would calm his game and work to his strengths.

[tankcity!]

Of course the haters are out thick during a Smart rough patch.

Yes, he's undeniably going through a rough patch right now. However, what else do you expect when he's having to play a role on this team that he's not, i.e. a 3-and-D off-ball swingman. It's no coincidence that he's going through a rough patch with Crowder out when he almost exclusively always plays with two other ball-handlers on the floor with him  - IT, Turner, and Rozier.

If we don't plan on truly developing the kid, then we might as well use him in a trade for Boogie.

I don't understand why you continue to blame the Celtics for his lack of progress. You have no evidence that the Celtics are holding him back at all. Last night for example, he was driving to the hoop and missing. I've also seen Smart run the P n R plenty of times. It is clear to me IMO that he prefers to shoot outside and it is not the coach. He doesn't have a good first step. His ball handling isn't tight enough as well to be a primary P N R ballhandler.

Like I said, if you're going to blame the Celtics, please have some proof because it feels like we are watching completely different games. For god sakes Bradley is better inside than Smart. Bradley has actually been attacking the paint these last few games. Is that because Stevens has allowed him too? Like think about what you are saying dude. Also, Rozier gets to the paint all the time as well. Stop blaming the team for Smart's development. It's seriously lame. If you think he is going to be a good player, that is fine. But it will be Smart's fault if he isn't, not the teams. No excuses.

[jpotter33]

Of course the haters are out thick during a Smart rough patch.

Yes, he's undeniably going through a rough patch right now. However, what else do you expect when he's having to play a role on this team that he's not, i.e. a 3-and-D off-ball swingman. It's no coincidence that he's going through a rough patch with Crowder out when he almost exclusively always plays with two other ball-handlers on the floor with him  - IT, Turner, and Rozier.

If we don't plan on truly developing the kid, then we might as well use him in a trade for Boogie.

I don't understand why you continue to blame the Celtics for his lack of progress. You have no evidence that the Celtics are holding him back at all. Last night for example, he was driving to the hoop and missing. I've also seen Smart run the P n R plenty of times. It is clear to me IMO that he prefers to shoot outside and it is not the coach. He doesn't have a good first step. His ball handling isn't tight enough as well to be a primary P N R ballhandler.

Like I said, if you're going to blame the Celtics, please have some proof because it feels like we are watching completely different games. For god sakes Bradley is better inside than Smart. Bradley has actually been attacking the paint these last few games. Is that because Stevens has allowed him too? Like think about what you are saying dude. Also, Rozier gets to the paint all the time as well. Stop blaming the team for Smart's development. It's seriously lame. If you think he is going to be a good player, that is fine. But it will be Smart's fault if he isn't, not the teams. No excuses.

Reason over emotion is always a better starting point for an argument. Just a tip for you.

I provided proof in the fact that since Crowder has been out, Smart has almost exclusively played with two other ball-handlers on the floor in Turner and IT, Turner and Rozier, or Rozier and IT. When they're all out there together, Smart handles the ball the last amount of time, and the other two ball-handlers almost exclusively do the ball-handling. These are obvious facts that can't be disputed.

So then tell me how Smart, who has always played point guard with ball-handling responsibilities his entire basketball career, is supposed to succeed in that type of system that doesn't utilize him to his strengths but forces him to do things that he's not great at? How is he supposed to flourish in a system that plays him out of position, expects him to primarily be a spot-up shooter, and hardly gives him any ball-handling responsibilities when he's shown he's a capable distributor and initiator of the offense? Go ahead - I'll wait.

Oh, and let's finally dispel this whole notion of Smart not driving and attacking the rim anymore. That was a legitimate criticism last year, but he routinely penetrates into the lane every game this year with regularity. I'd say he penetrates at least five to six times a game anymore, which is quite a bit given that he hardly ever has the ball in his hands. Granted, he's not been finishing those looks for several reasons, such as taking off too early and not getting the benefit of the doubt from the officials, but this whole notion that he doesn't attack the basket is not based in reality anymore.

[mmmmm]

Of course the haters are out thick during a Smart rough patch.

Yes, he's undeniably going through a rough patch right now. However, what else do you expect when he's having to play a role on this team that he's not, i.e. a 3-and-D off-ball swingman. It's no coincidence that he's going through a rough patch with Crowder out when he almost exclusively always plays with two other ball-handlers on the floor with him  - IT, Turner, and Rozier.

If we don't plan on truly developing the kid, then we might as well use him in a trade for Boogie.

I don't understand why you continue to blame the Celtics for his lack of progress. You have no evidence that the Celtics are holding him back at all. Last night for example, he was driving to the hoop and missing. I've also seen Smart run the P n R plenty of times. It is clear to me IMO that he prefers to shoot outside and it is not the coach. He doesn't have a good first step. His ball handling isn't tight enough as well to be a primary P N R ballhandler.

Like I said, if you're going to blame the Celtics, please have some proof because it feels like we are watching completely different games. For god sakes Bradley is better inside than Smart. Bradley has actually been attacking the paint these last few games. Is that because Stevens has allowed him too? Like think about what you are saying dude. Also, Rozier gets to the paint all the time as well. Stop blaming the team for Smart's development. It's seriously lame. If you think he is going to be a good player, that is fine. But it will be Smart's fault if he isn't, not the teams. No excuses.

Reason over emotion is always a better starting point for an argument. Just a tip for you.

I provided proof in the fact that since Crowder has been out, Smart has almost exclusively played with two other ball-handlers on the floor in Turner and IT, Turner and Rozier, or Rozier and IT. When they're all out there together, Smart handles the ball the last amount of time, and the other two ball-handlers almost exclusively do the ball-handling. These are obvious facts that can't be disputed.

So then tell me how Smart, who has always played point guard with ball-handling responsibilities his entire basketball career, is supposed to succeed in that type of system that doesn't utilize him to his strengths but forces him to do things that he's not great at? How is he supposed to flourish in a system that plays him out of position, expects him to primarily be a spot-up shooter, and hardly gives him any ball-handling responsibilities when he's shown he's a capable distributor and initiator of the offense? Go ahead - I'll wait.

It may be that the way Stevens is using Smart is indicative of how they view his skill and potential as a play maker.

In the last few games, with Evan now in the starting lineup due to Crowder's injury, Rozier has been added to the bench lineup (along with Smart) that carries the floor from the end of the 1st period into the middle of the 2nd.  It is very noticeable that Stevens seems to want Rozier to be the primary ball-handler in that configuration.

Since the beginning of March, in configurations with both Rozier and Smart on the floor, but without either Isaiah or Evan, Rozier has assisted 50% of his teammates' FGA, whereas Smart has assisted a tiny 7%.  Even Avery, who has been also on the floor in that configuration for most of the minutes, has an AST% of 22%.    In this configuration, Rozier is averaging 11.3 assists per 100 possessions, compared to just 1.4 for Smart. 

Smart _is_ being used as a finisher in this configuration, with reasonably high USG% of 24.3%.  Unfortunately, his eFG (26.3%) and TS (also 26.3%) have both been terrible in this setup.  That's despite taking 47% of his shots within 9 feet.

This is not, overall, a very large sample.  It could just be something that Stevens is trying out.   But it's something to note and keep an eye on.   

Basically, it is an open question whether the team really views Marcus as a 'point guard'.


 

[Forza Juventus]

They let him shoot too much. He would be more efficient if he took like 2 threes per game and less contested shots. His shot selection kills him.

[spikelovetheCelts]

Of course the haters are out thick during a Smart rough patch.

Yes, he's undeniably going through a rough patch right now. However, what else do you expect when he's having to play a role on this team that he's not, i.e. a 3-and-D off-ball swingman. It's no coincidence that he's going through a rough patch with Crowder out when he almost exclusively always plays with two other ball-handlers on the floor with him  - IT, Turner, and Rozier.

If we don't plan on truly developing the kid, then we might as well use him in a trade for Boogie.

I don't understand why you continue to blame the Celtics for his lack of progress. You have no evidence that the Celtics are holding him back at all. Last night for example, he was driving to the hoop and missing. I've also seen Smart run the P n R plenty of times. It is clear to me IMO that he prefers to shoot outside and it is not the coach. He doesn't have a good first step. His ball handling isn't tight enough as well to be a primary P N R ballhandler.

Like I said, if you're going to blame the Celtics, please have some proof because it feels like we are watching completely different games. For god sakes Bradley is better inside than Smart. Bradley has actually been attacking the paint these last few games. Is that because Stevens has allowed him too? Like think about what you are saying dude. Also, Rozier gets to the paint all the time as well. Stop blaming the team for Smart's development. It's seriously lame. If you think he is going to be a good player, that is fine. But it will be Smart's fault if he isn't, not the teams. No excuses.

Reason over emotion is always a better starting point for an argument. Just a tip for you.

I provided proof in the fact that since Crowder has been out, Smart has almost exclusively played with two other ball-handlers on the floor in Turner and IT, Turner and Rozier, or Rozier and IT. When they're all out there together, Smart handles the ball the last amount of time, and the other two ball-handlers almost exclusively do the ball-handling. These are obvious facts that can't be disputed.

So then tell me how Smart, who has always played point guard with ball-handling responsibilities his entire basketball career, is supposed to succeed in that type of system that doesn't utilize him to his strengths but forces him to do things that he's not great at? How is he supposed to flourish in a system that plays him out of position, expects him to primarily be a spot-up shooter, and hardly gives him any ball-handling responsibilities when he's shown he's a capable distributor and initiator of the offense? Go ahead - I'll wait.

It may be that the way Stevens is using Smart is indicative of how they view his skill and potential as a play maker.

In the last few games, with Evan now in the starting lineup due to Crowder's injury, Rozier has been added to the bench lineup (along with Smart) that carries the floor from the end of the 1st period into the middle of the 2nd.  It is very noticeable that Stevens seems to want Rozier to be the primary ball-handler in that configuration.

Since the beginning of March, in configurations with both Rozier and Smart on the floor, but without either Isaiah or Evan, Rozier has assisted 50% of his teammates' FGA, whereas Smart has assisted a tiny 7%.  Even Avery, who has been also on the floor in that configuration for most of the minutes, has an AST% of 22%.    In this configuration, Rozier is averaging 11.3 assists per 100 possessions, compared to just 1.4 for Smart. 

Smart _is_ being used as a finisher in this configuration, with reasonably high USG% of 24.3%.  Unfortunately, his eFG (26.3%) and TS (also 26.3%) have both been terrible in this setup.  That's despite taking 47% of his shots within 9 feet.

This is not, overall, a very large sample.  It could just be something that Stevens is trying out.   But it's something to note and keep an eye on.   

Basically, it is an open question whether the team really views Marcus as a 'point guard'.

Smart is a shooting guard by heart. With now three good ball handlers his future is at shooting guard. Hopefully that is all he does this summer is work on his stroke. If Jason Kidd can do it. He can too. I hope he plays SG for the rest of his career.

[guava_wrench]

People forget how down everyone was on Avery Bradley his first couple of years in the league, and he showed a lot less than Smart has up to this point. 

Smart has already proven to be a difference maker.  The team is usually far better with him on the court than it is without him, despite what the box score might say.

He's already proven he can be a good rotation player on a playoff team, which is more than a lot of 22 year olds can say (including Terry Rozier and R.J. Hunter).

AB was fine on offense early on and people knew back in hs that he could shoot. There were some on here who liked to paint him as a non-shooter, but they were talking nonsense by AB's second season where he had great percentages. AB was even a year younger than Smart is in his second season.

I like Smart and I believe he is helping the team. I also think his offense is horrible because he has always been a bad shooter. People aren't just reacting to a bad slump. They are reacting to him continuing to be inept on offense.

[mctyson]

A couple points I need to make here as I am definitely still on the board of the Marcus Smart Fan Club:

1) Since last year he has improved considerably as a playmaker, passer, ball handler, and thus as a PG.  Isn't that what we all wanted???

2) These are the most minutes/games he has played in his life.  Not saying this is an excuse but it is possible he is wearing down a bit, especially considering how hard he plays.

3) The refs TARGET him.  There is no question he earns some of that targeting but he also gets a lot of bad calls.

4) Since Crowder has gotten hurt his shot selection has soured.  I believe he is pressing in trying to fill Crowder's void. If that is true, it never is a positive.

5) He still brings it every single game, especially on defense, which is more than can be said for 75% of the league.

6) As mentioned, he is only 22.  22! He is a college senior! That means he is immature, as many of us were at that time.

7) He still has a legit chance to be an All NBA defensive player this year, certainly next year.

8 ) All he cares about is winning.  I bet Felger  would sing his praises if he was on the Patriots.

9) Worst case scenario for him:  he is a poor-man's Tony Allen or a middle-class Lance Stephenson.

10) He is in a slump.  He will come out of it. 

[Rosco917]

Of course the haters are out thick during a Smart rough patch.

Yes, he's undeniably going through a rough patch right now. However, what else do you expect when he's having to play a role on this team that he's not, i.e. a 3-and-D off-ball swingman. It's no coincidence that he's going through a rough patch with Crowder out when he almost exclusively always plays with two other ball-handlers on the floor with him  - IT, Turner, and Rozier.

If we don't plan on truly developing the kid, then we might as well use him in a trade for Boogie.

I don't understand why you continue to blame the Celtics for his lack of progress. You have no evidence that the Celtics are holding him back at all. Last night for example, he was driving to the hoop and missing. I've also seen Smart run the P n R plenty of times. It is clear to me IMO that he prefers to shoot outside and it is not the coach. He doesn't have a good first step. His ball handling isn't tight enough as well to be a primary P N R ballhandler.

Like I said, if you're going to blame the Celtics, please have some proof because it feels like we are watching completely different games. For god sakes Bradley is better inside than Smart. Bradley has actually been attacking the paint these last few games. Is that because Stevens has allowed him too? Like think about what you are saying dude. Also, Rozier gets to the paint all the time as well. Stop blaming the team for Smart's development. It's seriously lame. If you think he is going to be a good player, that is fine. But it will be Smart's fault if he isn't, not the teams. No excuses.

Reason over emotion is always a better starting point for an argument. Just a tip for you.

I provided proof in the fact that since Crowder has been out, Smart has almost exclusively played with two other ball-handlers on the floor in Turner and IT, Turner and Rozier, or Rozier and IT. When they're all out there together, Smart handles the ball the last amount of time, and the other two ball-handlers almost exclusively do the ball-handling. These are obvious facts that can't be disputed.

So then tell me how Smart, who has always played point guard with ball-handling responsibilities his entire basketball career, is supposed to succeed in that type of system that doesn't utilize him to his strengths but forces him to do things that he's not great at? How is he supposed to flourish in a system that plays him out of position, expects him to primarily be a spot-up shooter, and hardly gives him any ball-handling responsibilities when he's shown he's a capable distributor and initiator of the offense? Go ahead - I'll wait.

It may be that the way Stevens is using Smart is indicative of how they view his skill and potential as a play maker.

In the last few games, with Evan now in the starting lineup due to Crowder's injury, Rozier has been added to the bench lineup (along with Smart) that carries the floor from the end of the 1st period into the middle of the 2nd.  It is very noticeable that Stevens seems to want Rozier to be the primary ball-handler in that configuration.

Since the beginning of March, in configurations with both Rozier and Smart on the floor, but without either Isaiah or Evan, Rozier has assisted 50% of his teammates' FGA, whereas Smart has assisted a tiny 7%.  Even Avery, who has been also on the floor in that configuration for most of the minutes, has an AST% of 22%.    In this configuration, Rozier is averaging 11.3 assists per 100 possessions, compared to just 1.4 for Smart. 

Smart _is_ being used as a finisher in this configuration, with reasonably high USG% of 24.3%.  Unfortunately, his eFG (26.3%) and TS (also 26.3%) have both been terrible in this setup.  That's despite taking 47% of his shots within 9 feet.

This is not, overall, a very large sample.  It could just be something that Stevens is trying out.   But it's something to note and keep an eye on.   

Basically, it is an open question whether the team really views Marcus as a 'point guard'.

Smart is a shooting guard by heart. With now three good ball handlers his future is at shooting guard. Hopefully that is all he does this summer is work on his stroke. If Jason Kidd can do it. He can too. I hope he plays SG for the rest of his career.

If he plays shooting guard the rest of his career, he'll be a back up the rest of his career.

Jason Kidd had strong point guard skills, and a very high basketball IQ. His outside shooting improved a little, but it didn't get him any extra minutes because of it. That's for sure.

[droopdog7]

The main point is that Smart wouldn't be getting critcized as much if he wasn't the sixth pick overall. Unfortunately, the Celtics were banking on him to be an all star. However, he still has the potential to be a great role player. He just needs to improve his shot. However, I can't imagine him ever being an all star now.

Frankly, I think being the sixth pick is actually helping him but I don't think he would be playing much if he were a later pick.  I am thinking the coach and front office will give him every chance to prove his worth.

[mctyson]

The main point is that Smart wouldn't be getting critcized as much if he wasn't the sixth pick overall. Unfortunately, the Celtics were banking on him to be an all star. However, he still has the potential to be a great role player. He just needs to improve his shot. However, I can't imagine him ever being an all star now.

Frankly, I think being the sixth pick is actually helping him but I don't think he would be playing much if he were a later pick.  I am thinking the coach and front office will give him every chance to prove his worth.

Ridiculous.

[lefty12]

Foolish to think being 6th pick helps smart

If he were the 22nd pick - fans would be raving about what a "steal" it was to get

a combo defensive/energy guard that plays 25mpg in his 2nd yr

Instead we have half the fan base ignoring his shortcomings and hoping he lives up to his drafted position

[mgent]

Smart isn't the most efficient shooter at this point in his career.

On the other hand, he can make plays for others, handles the ball as well as any PG, and doesn't really turn the ball over much, which is impressive for a young guard.

I'd MUCH rather have a guy with 1 more missed shot per game than a guy with 1 more TO per game.

Hard not to love him when you factor in his defense. 

Then again, I loved Tony Allen and called him a good player when 95% of people on this board said the opposite, and he was a poor shooter, poor ball-handler, and a poor passer.

So I guess at least Boston fans are consistent?

[lefty12]

Tony Allen reference is a good comp

Only difference is draft position / expectations