Yet another dissapointment in Marcus Smart thread (Bob Ryan comments)

[MJohnnyboy]

I believe in Smart's potential, but if he turns out to be just a smaller Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (and hopefully not as injury-prone), then I'm fine with it. Guys like Smart and MKG may not be offensive juggernauts, but they do so many other good things for their teams.

MKG has a good mid range game, can finish, and is taller. He also makes more of an impact on D, and rebounds better. Look at MKG's FG% and compare it to Smart's. I wish people would research before making comps.

Hey genius, why don't you read it again? At no time did I say that the two right now are the same player. Nope not once. I'll try to bring this up slowly since you are so smart. I brought up the potential of Smart becoming a smaller Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. So, of course there are things MKG can do that Smart can't due to the obvious size difference. Hence the word "smaller". The point of the comp is that both are defensive sieves with limited offensive capabilities no matter how their stats compare.

I apologize if my comment made you butthurt. Can you forgive me?

Haha, what are you talking about? Look at MKG's rookie season and compare it to Smart's....I don't see where or how you can compare the two potentially. I actually thought you would be smart enough to compare their rookie seasons since MKG was younger entering the league.

Yet again, you're not listening. I'm comparing them because defensively the two of them are similar in that they are very good, heck, even elite, on that end. Heck, the two of them play a very physical brand of basketball on defense that very much impacts that end. I think we both can agree on that. Offensively though, they are very limited. Clearly MKG has higher percentages offensively, but neither can shoot threes all that well and are not guys you go to for offense, at least not now.

Let me spell this out for you. I'm saying Smart could be a SMALLER Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. You see the emphasis on smaller? The point is, one is a guard and the other is a wing. You're right when you say that position wise, they are vastly different, and hence MKG can do things better at certain things than Smart can, like rebound. Kidd-Gilchrist may have better FG numbers, but is he that much more integral on offense to the Hornets than Smart is to the Celtics? Nope, or not by much.

And again, it's all based on potential, and that's the main point you're missing. I'm not saying that Smart is or will be MKG. I'm saying if he does turn out that way, then I'll be happy. This is what I'm rooting for. Not what I'm expecting. I can clearly tell you are not a Smart fan, and I'm not here to try to convince you otherwise. We all have our preferences. This is simply a best case scenario. If you're so offended by this, well then I guess it sucks to be you.

Dude, I get that you think they are similar on defense, but MKG IS A BETTER OFFENSIVE PLAYER. That is my point. He is not as bad as you make him claim on offense. He is a way better finisher and a great mid-range shooter.

I'm not taking any offense to what you are saying. But to me, they seem like different players because Smart is a better ball handler. MKG is also very athletic, can't say the same thing for Smart.

I liked Smart his rookie year cause I thought his offense would improve. I thought he would be a good leader as well. His shooting has gotten worse and I haven't really seen any leadership, but I'm not in the practices. Only time will tell I guess. I really hope Smart turns out to be good because the Celtics need him. But at this point, he has been a disappointment and I think it is disrespectful to compare him to MKG, who did not look this offensively challenged IMO.

See I get that, and where you are not understanding me is, I hope that potentially Smart can be as offensively sound as MKG is and even if they are relatively different as players offensively, they can make the same impact for their teams on that end. I have not once said that I think Smart will be or is currently MKG on offense. You're responding as if as though that is what I said. Really, I just hope Smart could be that effective because as you and I agree, right now he isn't. And, MKG is fine offensively, but no star on offense, so me making that comparison isn't setting the bar that high.

[LarBrd33]

The positive:  He's a high intangibles guy.   I was desperate for us to tank in 2013 on the basis that there were 8 quality guys available.  Smart was one of those 8 guys I wanted.  I have no regrets on how that played out.  He's still really young and things might click for him eventually.   

Clearly, a lot has been written about him defensively.  He has uncanny timing picking off passes.  I would, however, like someone to share some more advanced statistics that show his defensive impact.  Last I checked, the stats didn't really back up the narrative that he was an otherworldly defender.

That said...  I got flack for saying this months ago, but I've been pretty massively disappointed in Marcus Smart since he joined the league.  Let's put aside the defense for a second.  Maybe he's an elite defender.  Fine.   I'm talking about the rest of his game.  I've been really disappointed.  Coming into the league, I was lead to believe on the offensive end this guy was Tyreke Evans at worst. 

Originally I thought he had a ceiling of D-Wade and a floor of Tyreke Evans.

That quickly changed to thinking he had a ceiling of Rodney Stuckey with a floor of Tony Allen.

At this point?  I mean... let's not make fanboy excuses here.  There's still time for him to figure it out, but at this point it's not looking good.  Two years in he should be showing a bit more development than this.  He shot 36%/32%/63% over the second half of last season.  He shot 36%/29%/75% over the first half of this season.  He's shot 31%/19%/76% over the second half of this season.  That's regression.  At this point what is he... Ricky Rubio/Rajon Rondo without the passing instinct?

Actually, earlier this season when folks like Bill Simmon and Zach Lowe asked if Smart would some day develop into a player similar to Tony Allen, there was pretty significant backlash from fans here who pointed to Smart's sub-par three point shooting as proof that Smart was a superior offensive player to Tony Allen.   Might be time to revisit that.  Allen has career shooting percentages of 48%/28%/72%... Allen is shooting 38% from three this year.    Smart has career shooting of 36%/30%/70%... shooting 26% from three this year.  Just because he takes more and bricks more doesn't necessarily make him a better shooter.  Allen has pretty consistently been able to score at the hole more efficiently.  People love to take "True shooting percentage" out of context in defense of bad shooters.  Smart has a career TS% of .477.   Tony Allen has a career TS% of .534. 

Guys from his class are coming on strong since the all-star break:

Aaron Gordon has looked sensational. Averaging 12 points, 7.7 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 1.2 steals with 50%/33%/62% shooting in 27.7mpg

I got buried for saying I'd trade the Brooklyn pick for Jabari Parker.  Luckily the Brooklyn pick is keeping delicious pace, but I'd sure as heck still trade it for Jabari.  19.1 points, 6.4 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 1.1 steals, 50%/39%/82% since the all-star break.

Julius Randle is still in the midst of his rookie season, but it's fair to point out he's averaging 13.3 points, 10.7 rebounds, 1.2 assists with 47%/25%/70% shooting since the break.

Yeah I get it... it's not all about stats.  But let's not just gloss over the stats.  Statistically, Smart has been pretty terrible.  In-fact, if you just look at the EFF rating since the all-star break (points + rebounds + assists + steals + blocks... subtract missed shots and turnovers), SMart's ranking 19th among Sophomores. 

Puts him behind Parker, Randle, Wiggins, Lavine, Clarkson, Payton, McDermot, Nukic...

... Even Nik Stauskas:  9.3 points, 2.6 rebounds, 1.7 assists, with 44%/36%/79% shooting in just 23.2 mpg.   

Ouch. 

There's still time.  But yeah... I'm disappointed.

Luckily, it doesn't matter.  We're getting another binkie in the top 6 this year and our team is set up to have potentially the greatest Summer in 20+ years.  Smart having a destiny as a defensive role player off the bench has been a possibility I've been prepared for for well over a year.  I'm still rooting for him to be much more. 

[CelticsJG]

Smart not going to be effective on the offensive end because his skill sets and shooting mechanics terrible.

[tomrod]

Right now it's more Tony Allen than DWade. That's still ok.

He just makes an impact beyond stats though, as Forsberg argues.

Whatever, still on the fence with Smart, I like him, but wish he was better, and maybe he will be. Its curious but in this stretch I've seen him more comfortable handling the ball, I think it's just an anxiety thing where he goes like a bull to the basket or launches a three without much of a shooting notion. If he can fix that and get smarter he will get better.

[Diggles]

He is worth every penny of that rookie contract.   There is VALUE...right now that is all we need.   Hes not even starting. 

If I could get a Big or package him with a pick for a proven all star I would.   

[LilRip]

I'm a huge Smart supporter but even I'm a little disappointed with how this year has turned out for him. I was expecting a bigger leap, particularly on the offensive end.

[Celtics18]

What's so earth shattering about being disappointed?  I mean, is there a Celtics fan anywhere that isn't disappointed with the way Marcus Smart is playing right now?

Is someone going "woo hoo!!! 2 for his last 22.  Exactly what I'd hoped for at this stage!!"

It seems to me that the only folks who wouldn't be disappointed are the true Haters-yes, with a capital H-the ones who have wanted him to fail from the beginning.  They can now revel in the fact that he hasn't lived up to expectations.  They can probably even take great pride in the fact that they "told us all so (tongue wagging)!!!!"

I'm disappointed, but I expect him to fight through where he is right now, and be a better player than this.  The dreams of perennial all stardom are fading, but when I squint, among the glow of the green light, I can still make out a faint glimmer . . .

[JSD]

Smart is virtually useless on the offensive end and seems to be getting worse. Celtics missed on the 6th pick in the draft. It's a tough break but not the end of the world. Ainge has more than made up for it by trading for and locking up Thomas and Crowder.

[Snakehead]

He's still a net positive to the team and that say a lot about everything he is doing besides shooting.  I think he will keep working at his shot.

[tankcity!]

The main point is that Smart wouldn't be getting critcized as much if he wasn't the sixth pick overall. Unfortunately, the Celtics were banking on him to be an all star. However, he still has the potential to be a great role player. He just needs to improve his shot. However, I can't imagine him ever being an all star now.

[alldaboston]

His pre game comments tho. Something along the lines of "they go in during practice but I can't get anything during games". Poor guy. I feel so bad for him. If he would just limit himself to like 2 threes per game and instead drove just once more per game, it'd certainly be enough to please me for now.

[mrceltics2013]

He is worth every penny of that rookie contract.   There is VALUE...right now that is all we need.   Hes not even starting. 

If I could get a Big or package him with a pick for a proven all star I would.

No team who has a proven star wants this guy, cut it out. Like asking for a proven star for perry ellis 3. Smart has no value and no team could use him.

[mrceltics2013]

Its interesting how I got so much backlash on Smart when I spoke negative about him a few weeks ago, now there is an entire thread of everyone saying everything I was saying about him....

[jpotter33]

Of course the haters are out thick during a Smart rough patch.

Yes, he's undeniably going through a rough patch right now. However, what else do you expect when he's having to play a role on this team that he's not, i.e. a 3-and-D off-ball swingman. It's no coincidence that he's going through a rough patch with Crowder out when he almost exclusively always plays with two other ball-handlers on the floor with him  - IT, Turner, and Rozier.

If we don't plan on truly developing the kid, then we might as well use him in a trade for Boogie.

[jpotter33]

Its interesting how I got so much backlash on Smart when I spoke negative about him a few weeks ago, now there is an entire thread of everyone saying everything I was saying about him....

We already have several pessimistic, self-glorifying posters on here. Can we please not add another one right before the playoffs?