Brad Stevens just exposes how overrated Doc Rivers is

[Ilikesports17]

DISCLAIMER - I absolutely LOVE Coach Brad Stevens and what he HAS done, IS doing, and WILL do for this team in the coming years.

With THAT being said, I absolutely LOVE the REVISIONIST HISTORIANS on here who NOW give Coach Tibs the credit for BOS's past successes.

Just brilliant.

This. I even feel bad that I replied to this thread and bumped it up.

Thibs getting credit for team success is not revisionist history. He got a lot of credit at the time. Why do you think he was hired by Chicago? Thibs was a well known name in a position that you usually do not even know the name of the coach.

Agreed I remember being pretty concerned when he left. He then went on to prove his worth as an elite defensive coach.

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, we can't blame tonight's loss at ORL on Doc Rivers.

Ironically enough - it was Doc's ORLANDO team and his work there that evidently impressed Danny Ainge enough to even hire him.

Go figure.

[crimson_stallion]

Brad Stevens has done an unbelievable job using the sum of his part to create something amazing. He's literally a genius and I think his skill set is better than Popovich. Our 08 champignonship was solely due to the big 3. But Stevens could lead a dynasty if the Celtics had a few Superstars

You really need to give Doc Rivers more credit and respect. 

Ainge assembled that team and they won the championship their first season together with Doc at the helm.  You are crazy if you think it's that easy to do with three egotistical superstars who are all used to being the #1 on their team. 

Miami tried the same thing when Lebron/Bosh came to town, and they failed - didn't come back and win it until the following year.  You could argue Lebron was more talented at that time than anybody on the Celtics 08 roster.  I'd argue the Celtics had a tougher road as well, becauause that Lakers team in 08 was TOUGH.

You also need to consider that Boston took the Lebron/Wade/Bosh led Miami Heat to 7 games in the Eastern Conference finals when we had a 35 year old KG, an injured Paul Pierce, an injured Ray Allen, no Avery Bradley, and bench filled with complete scrubs. 

Doc deserves a lot of credit man - that guy is a hell of a coach. 

[hpantazo]

Brad Stevens has done an unbelievable job using the sum of his part to create something amazing. He's literally a genius and I think his skill set is better than Popovich. Our 08 champignonship was solely due to the big 3. But Stevens could lead a dynasty if the Celtics had a few Superstars

You really need to give Doc Rivers more credit and respect. 

Ainge assembled that team and they won the championship their first season together with Doc at the helm.  You are crazy if you think it's that easy to take three egotistical hall of famers and make them all work together seamlessly instantly - Miami tried the same thing when Lebron/Bosh came to town, and they did not get the same result.

You also need to consider that Boston took the Lebron/Wade/Bosh led Miami Heat to 7 games in the Eastern Conference finals with an injured Pierce, an injured Ray, no Avery Bradley, and a horrendously bad bench. 

IMHO, the Celtics had tougher competition in 08 than the Heat did too, because that Lakers team was TOUGH.

I have to disagree. That point is totally wrong imo. KG, Paul, and Ray were not at all 'egotistical'. Nowhere near Lebron, Wade, and Bosh. That's why it worked.  KG, Paul, and Ray were much, much more mature at that stage, and looking to win and ready to let go of individual glory.

[Moranis]

My disdain for Doc is well known on this board (mostly personality based), but Doc is a good coach.  He isn't a great coach, but he is certainly in the top half of the league.  I just can't stand Doc on a personal level.  He is far too two-faced for me.  Smiles and says one thing, but does something else entirely.  Just a sneaky two-faced liar.  But again that takes nothing away from his basketball coaching ability (which again is good but not great).

[crimson_stallion]

Brad Stevens has done an unbelievable job using the sum of his part to create something amazing. He's literally a genius and I think his skill set is better than Popovich. Our 08 champignonship was solely due to the big 3. But Stevens could lead a dynasty if the Celtics had a few Superstars

You really need to give Doc Rivers more credit and respect. 

Ainge assembled that team and they won the championship their first season together with Doc at the helm.  You are crazy if you think it's that easy to take three egotistical hall of famers and make them all work together seamlessly instantly - Miami tried the same thing when Lebron/Bosh came to town, and they did not get the same result.

You also need to consider that Boston took the Lebron/Wade/Bosh led Miami Heat to 7 games in the Eastern Conference finals with an injured Pierce, an injured Ray, no Avery Bradley, and a horrendously bad bench. 

IMHO, the Celtics had tougher competition in 08 than the Heat did too, because that Lakers team was TOUGH.

I have to disagree. That point is totally wrong imo. KG, Paul, and Ray were not at all 'egotistical'. Nowhere near Lebron, Wade, and Bosh. That's why it worked.  KG, Paul, and Ray were much, much more mature at that stage, and looking to win and ready to let go of individual glory.

That may be true, but they were still superstars who were used to being treated as the gods of their teams - and you can be sure that there were moments where those ego's clashed.

We've already heard stories about arguments between Ray and KG, between Ray and Rondo, etc.  When you are a star you hold the keys to your team, and when you have to go to another team and give up those keys, I can assure you it wouldn't be easy - no matter how unselfish you are.

Don't forget, also, the sheer amount of injuries that team suffered beyond 2008.  The whole way Doc found ways to keep the team competitive. 

The whole "Brad Stevens just exposes how overrated Doc Rivers is" statement in general makes absolutely no rational sense.  If Brad had achieved what Doc has then it would, but he hasn't. Doc coached a team to one NBA championship, one NBA Finals series, and a number of deep playoff runs. 

Brad so far has coached this team to a first round sweep.

Brad Stevens is a great coach is his own right, and his potential as a coach is off the charts and he obviously hasn't had as much talent to work with as Doc ever did...but that doesn't change the fact that he is still a long way from achieving what Doc ever did. 

In all the time Doc was coach we made the playoffs every year but one, despite constantly dealing with things like injuries, lack of bench depth, and an ageing roster.  He deserves a ton of credit.

Why can't we appreciate Brad's achievements on their own, without having to try and use it as an excuse to throw dirt on Doc?  Why so bitter? 

Doc left and went to another team - the team he went to has been very competitive ever since, and now we are competitive with a great coach of our own.  Good luck to Doc and good luck to us. 

The bitterness is unnecessary.

[Evantime34]

Doc is great at managing the big personalities of stars.

Stevens is a better x/o's coach and his offense is more visually pleasing. I also think he is better at developing young talent.

Stevens is a perfect coach for where we are in the rebuild and Doc was the worst possible coach for this stage of the rebuild. That we were able to upgrade our coach in terms of what the team needed and get a first round pick is amazing.

[crimson_stallion]

My disdain for Doc is well known on this board (mostly personality based), but Doc is a good coach.  He isn't a great coach, but he is certainly in the top half of the league.  I just can't stand Doc on a personal level.  He is far too two-faced for me.  Smiles and says one thing, but does something else entirely.  Just a sneaky two-faced liar.  But again that takes nothing away from his basketball coaching ability (which again is good but not great).

I don't see that.

Far as I can see Doc just spent a number of years playing coaching championship caliber basketball.  He built a strong bond/relationship with guys like Pierce, KG and Rondo - guys who he would have no doubt become like family with.

Then at some point along the way, he would have obviously been brought up to speed with Danny's plan to trade away Pierce and KG for picks and assets, and then tear down the Celtics for a complete rebuild.

Suddenly Doc has the guys he's fought with every night sent away, and on top of that he gets stuck having to coach a group full of nobodies who looked like they would suck for years on end. 

I completely understand why he might not want to be a part of that.  Trading Pierce and KG probably hurt enough, but to also have to go back to coaching a lottery team would have been the final straw.

Doc saw an opportunity to move to another team where he had a contending roster and the level of control to be able to try and reunite with Pierce and/or KG (which he eventually did).  Ainge saw an opportunity to pick up a hotshot coach with great potential, and also steal assets off the Clippers in the process. 

It was a win-win situation that benefited both sides, which is why I don't understand why people feel the need to whine and moan about it. 

[GreenFaith1819]

Doc is great at managing the big personalities of stars.

Stevens is a better x/o's coach and his offense is more visually pleasing. I also think he is better at developing young talent.

Stevens is a perfect coach for where we are in the rebuild and Doc was the worst possible coach for this stage of the rebuild. That we were able to upgrade our coach in terms of what the team needed and get a first round pick is amazing.

But didn't Glenn Doc Rivers earn his chops coaching that ORL team? He did basically the same thing then, with a similar roster - as CBS is doing now.

For all of the wrangling and word-play going on in this thread, I truly wonder what would happen "IF" CBS actually got a STAR on this team.

How would CBS respond to DMC second-guessing a play? Even IF DMC was right?

What about Marc Gasol?

What about Russell Westbrook?

My true HOPE and expectation is that CBS has indeed earned the respect of some of these STARS around the league.

I believe he HAS, to some degree.

But that has yet to be proven.

[crimson_stallion]

Doc is great at managing the big personalities of stars.

Stevens is a better x/o's coach and his offense is more visually pleasing. I also think he is better at developing young talent.

Stevens is a perfect coach for where we are in the rebuild and Doc was the worst possible coach for this stage of the rebuild. That we were able to upgrade our coach in terms of what the team needed and get a first round pick is amazing.

I think this is a good summary

[Moranis]

My disdain for Doc is well known on this board (mostly personality based), but Doc is a good coach.  He isn't a great coach, but he is certainly in the top half of the league.  I just can't stand Doc on a personal level.  He is far too two-faced for me.  Smiles and says one thing, but does something else entirely.  Just a sneaky two-faced liar.  But again that takes nothing away from his basketball coaching ability (which again is good but not great).

I don't see that.

Far as I can see Doc just spent a number of years playing coaching championship caliber basketball.  He built a strong bond/relationship with guys like Pierce, KG and Rondo - guys who he would have no doubt become like family with.

Then at some point along the way, he would have obviously been brought up to speed with Danny's plan to trade away Pierce and KG for picks and assets, and then tear down the Celtics for a complete rebuild.

Suddenly Doc has the guys he's fought with every night sent away, and on top of that he gets stuck having to coach a group full of nobodies who looked like they would suck for years on end. 

I completely understand why he might not want to be a part of that.  Trading Pierce and KG probably hurt enough, but to also have to go back to coaching a lottery team would have been the final straw.

Doc saw an opportunity to move to another team where he had a contending roster and the level of control to be able to try and reunite with Pierce and/or KG (which he eventually did).  Ainge saw an opportunity to pick up a hotshot coach with great potential, and also steal assets off the Clippers in the process. 

It was a win-win situation that benefited both sides, which is why I don't understand why people feel the need to whine and moan about it.

my disdain and calling him two-faced developed long before he left Boston for Los Angeles.  I felt that way when he was the coach here and had numerous posts on the topic on the prior blog and early on on this site.  I was happy he left for L.A.  I couldn't stand him.

[manl_lui]

I agree and disagree. Explain in what way did BS expose Doc...because he took a couple of underrated players and took them to the playoffs?

I mean Doc has his flaws but he's still an excellent coach in my opinion. Though I do agree with most of you where we could've squeezed an extra championship or two. I didn't like his time management and his over relying on vets. But he did bring an underrated team to the playoffs once with Tracy McGrady with the Orlando Magics.

I LOVE Stevens and believe he is a better coach than Doc, but I cannot judge him until we do give him a couple of superstars. But just the fact that he helped IT become an all-star and a team full of role players to the playoffs and currently 5th seed makes me optimistic that we are very close to being contender status...we're probably 2-3 years away from that

[kozlodoev]

Stevens is a better x/o's coach and his offense is more visually pleasing. I also think he is better at developing young talent.

There's nothing visually pleasing about chucking jumpers, which is what Brad S's offence reduces to half of the time.

Also, this season is pretty much the first time I saw an actual play that they managed to run with any consistency... so there's that. Most of the last two seasons consisted of one pick and roll and running around like headless chickens for 20 seconds.

[Evantime34]

Stevens is a better x/o's coach and his offense is more visually pleasing. I also think he is better at developing young talent.

There's nothing visually pleasing about chucking jumpers, which is what Brad S's offence reduces to half of the time.

Also, this season is pretty much the first time I saw an actual play that they managed to run with any consistency... so there's that. Most of the last two seasons consisted of one pick and roll and running around like headless chickens for 20 seconds.

I guess the visually pleasing part is a matter of opinion. I prefer the constant screening/dribble hand offs and side to side ball movement of Brad Stevens to forcing opponents to switch in order to attack in the ISO of Doc Rivers.

Brad Stevens offense is more free flowing, where Doc's is more set plays. I prefer free flowing to set plays. Considering we really only have one (maybe two) guys currently on the team that can create their own offense I think when you see what you refer to as a "headless chicken offense" it is due to the personnel a lot more than the coaching. Doc's offensive style simply wouldn't work for the current C's.

In terms of out of time out plays both are among the two best in the NBA. In terms of end of game plays, I'd give Brad Stevens the edge because I got tired of seeing Doc waste the clock and end up with a contested midrange jumper almost every time with the game on the line.

[moiso]

I agree and disagree. Explain in what way did BS expose Doc...because he took a couple of underrated players and took them to the playoffs?

I mean Doc has his flaws but he's still an excellent coach in my opinion. Though I do agree with most of you where we could've squeezed an extra championship or two. I didn't like his time management and his over relying on vets. But he did bring an underrated team to the playoffs once with Tracy McGrady with the Orlando Magics.

I LOVE Stevens and believe he is a better coach than Doc, but I cannot judge him until we do give him a couple of superstars. But just the fact that he helped IT become an all-star and a team full of role players to the playoffs and currently 5th seed makes me optimistic that we are very close to being contender status...we're probably 2-3 years away from that

Plus people seem to forget that Doc won coach of the year with the Magic before he came to the Celtics.  He really developed the players on that team, much like Stevens is doing now.