Brad Stevens just exposes how overrated Doc Rivers is

[KeepRondo]

Tp! Doc is not a good basketball coach. I argued it almost his whole tenure here. Imo, he cost us one or two championships.

Maybe but KG was hurt one year and the Lakers were no scrubs.

I wish we got two championships also but it's not like it was a surprise we only got one.

Maybe Tony Allen rotted on our bench while Kobe went nuts.

And maybe Mr. Personality Manager refused to bench Ray Allen when he was ice cold.

Kobe went nuts in game 6. No way we had a chance there. Sheed played great in game 7 and it looked like we had that game. Maybe I'm sour because we lost but it felt like we got a bad run of fouls called on us in the fourth.

You don't think Tony could have slowed Kobe?

not in game 6. That was one of the greatest finals appearances ever. But game 7 we had them. I blame the officials way more then the rotations. Rivers also is the type of coach who is going to ride the guys who got him there. It's part of the reason he gets the most out of his veterans. It's a mutual respect between coach and player.

In the end he helped get us to game 7. Officials took that game from us.

that is not mutual respect. That is a lack of judgment and ability to adjust.

What move would you have gone to?

You want to put Tony Allen in and run a play for him in game 7 of the NBA championship?

Or Nate Robinson? In what world do you take Ray Allen out for Nate Robinson or Tony Allen in game 7?

Maybe if Doc had Olynyk or Smart or Jerebko on the bench. Let's face it. Stevens has a less talented but deeper team then Rivers. Don't get things twisted.

PLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE!!! Don't even dare compare CBS to Glenn Rivers in coaching. Rivers accepts his inability to coach when he hightailed it out of town at the slightest hint of 'trouble'. He ran to a team a loaded team only to do no better than the fired coach.

How dare you talk about CBS having deeper talent. You want to know why we are enjoying our team now? Its because we have a coach. The reason we look deep is we have a real coach that actually coaches his team up and plays the players he has. Rivers rides his stars. He can never do the job CBS has done with this Boston team.

Further evidence of Rivers' acceptance of his ineptness is the amount of NBA HEAD COACHES he has on the bench next to him. He has about 2 or three former head coaches on his bench. The guy cannot coach. Whatever coaching the 2008 team got was Thibs.

If you aren't capable of seeing that we have more depth on this team then the one Rivers coached, then it's not worth debating with you.

The current Celtics roster is deep? Don't you understand that depth is relative? Your depth is as much a function of quality of starters as it is quality of reserves. Now tell me again just how deep we are when most of the players that Brad as turned into the envy of the league were said not to be quality starters at the beginning of the season.

Every team would want Smart and Olynyk on their team. And for all the hate he gets, most teams could use ET also. Also, teams over the cap would have wanted Jerebko, who is a nice 3 and D guy. You must be a bad judge of talent.

[greece66]

Doc is no good at building a team.  He ran away from the Celtics .  He never was much good with a normal average team trying to make it to the next level.  He is not much for making people better.

Doc has to have THE best talent to susceed . 

Doc is great at orchestrate a team of all stars and divas...he tells them what they want to hear. Keeps the locker room running smooth.   He is sort of a groupie himself loving the limelight and prestige of hanging with the stars .

He is a fantastic Wizzard at calming and getting huge egos to behave and making them THINK they are more important than the next guy .......so he maybe a great bs artist

He would be awful in college ....wher you actually have to WORK and TEACh ...LOL

What's success? Making the playoffs?

Clippers have a ton of talent and they are the 4th best team in that conference.

This.

And they also have one of the best owners + one of the best markets.

Doc's coaching at LAL is rather mediocre.

[guava_wrench]

Tp! Doc is not a good basketball coach. I argued it almost his whole tenure here. Imo, he cost us one or two championships.

Maybe but KG was hurt one year and the Lakers were no scrubs.

I wish we got two championships also but it's not like it was a surprise we only got one.

Maybe Tony Allen rotted on our bench while Kobe went nuts.

And maybe Mr. Personality Manager refused to bench Ray Allen when he was ice cold.

Kobe went nuts in game 6. No way we had a chance there. Sheed played great in game 7 and it looked like we had that game. Maybe I'm sour because we lost but it felt like we got a bad run of fouls called on us in the fourth.

Sheed's back gave out. That is what cost us the most. That is the danger of filling a roster with old guys. Sheed carried the team the first half and then was toast in the second half of the final game.

[Ogaju]

Tp! Doc is not a good basketball coach. I argued it almost his whole tenure here. Imo, he cost us one or two championships.

Maybe but KG was hurt one year and the Lakers were no scrubs.

I wish we got two championships also but it's not like it was a surprise we only got one.

Maybe Tony Allen rotted on our bench while Kobe went nuts.

And maybe Mr. Personality Manager refused to bench Ray Allen when he was ice cold.

Kobe went nuts in game 6. No way we had a chance there. Sheed played great in game 7 and it looked like we had that game. Maybe I'm sour because we lost but it felt like we got a bad run of fouls called on us in the fourth.

You don't think Tony could have slowed Kobe?

not in game 6. That was one of the greatest finals appearances ever. But game 7 we had them. I blame the officials way more then the rotations. Rivers also is the type of coach who is going to ride the guys who got him there. It's part of the reason he gets the most out of his veterans. It's a mutual respect between coach and player.

In the end he helped get us to game 7. Officials took that game from us.

that is not mutual respect. That is a lack of judgment and ability to adjust.

What move would you have gone to?

You want to put Tony Allen in and run a play for him in game 7 of the NBA championship?

Or Nate Robinson? In what world do you take Ray Allen out for Nate Robinson or Tony Allen in game 7?

Maybe if Doc had Olynyk or Smart or Jerebko on the bench. Let's face it. Stevens has a less talented but deeper team then Rivers. Don't get things twisted.

PLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE!!! Don't even dare compare CBS to Glenn Rivers in coaching. Rivers accepts his inability to coach when he hightailed it out of town at the slightest hint of 'trouble'. He ran to a team a loaded team only to do no better than the fired coach.

How dare you talk about CBS having deeper talent. You want to know why we are enjoying our team now? Its because we have a coach. The reason we look deep is we have a real coach that actually coaches his team up and plays the players he has. Rivers rides his stars. He can never do the job CBS has done with this Boston team.

Further evidence of Rivers' acceptance of his ineptness is the amount of NBA HEAD COACHES he has on the bench next to him. He has about 2 or three former head coaches on his bench. The guy cannot coach. Whatever coaching the 2008 team got was Thibs.

If you aren't capable of seeing that we have more depth on this team then the one Rivers coached, then it's not worth debating with you.

The current Celtics roster is deep? Don't you understand that depth is relative? Your depth is as much a function of quality of starters as it is quality of reserves. Now tell me again just how deep we are when most of the players that Brad as turned into the envy of the league were said not to be quality starters at the beginning of the season.

Every team would want Smart and Olynyk on their team. And for all the hate he gets, most teams could use ET also. Also, teams over the cap would have wanted Jerebko, who is a nice 3 and D guy. You must be a bad judge of talent.

of course they would, after CBS has coached em up. Who wouldn't.

[Lucky17]

Say what you will, I really hope our next champignonship comes avec fromage.

[SparzWizard]

I just think Tom Thibs, who was our assistant coach, should get half the credit for pushing this team in our championship runs.

[GreenFaith1819]

I think that you underrate how far Doc took some untalented teams.

which untalented teams did Doc take far??

the team that had Dhoward/Torkulu?  The team that had the big three? The team that had Griffin/Paul?

Rivers has a place in the league and so does CBS.  Rivers is better for managing big personalities/star players. CBS better at developing/managing underrated blue coller workers like Crowder/Smart/KO

Rivers never coached Dwight Howard... O.o

OK. Tracy mcgrady then

Yay! He had one good player in Tracy McGrady, a 21 year-old at that. And practically no one else of note making worthwhile contributions. Yet, he had those teams with winning records and got them into the playoffs.

Prior to that he led a team whose best player was Darrel Armstrong to a .500 record. It does seem like you have no notion on how bad the talent Rivers was working with, and how hard he had them playing.

To discount the accomplishments with those teams, just to accentuate your love for Stevens, is absurd.

A young Mike Miller was on that team also right?

He was pretty good.

We can also say that Bradley is pretty good, that Turner is pretty good, that Crowder is pretty good, that Amir is pretty good, etc., etc..

They're decent players who play a role, that's it. They aren't super stars or anything.

But yeah, pretty much a rookie and a sophomore Mike Miller. That's what he was counting on.

I agree with you. But Mike Miller was better than AB or Crowder. Your post just got me remembering that Mcgrady/Miller combo. To bad they were never able to surround them with better players.

I'd say he was more on par with what Bradley offers us right now, but Crowder this particular season is a head above them.

We also have to account for Miller being a rookie and a sophomore, and the learning curve that comes with it. Surely Doc deserves some credit there, I mean he had to count on 30 minutes or so a night from Miller to get that team to the playoffs.

The main point in all of this is that people are here trying to argue that "look at Stevens what he's accomplished with THIS level of talent, Doc can't hold a candle to him", but forget that Doc had similar teams in the past, one can argue even worse than this (and I'd argue that easily), and had similar success. But more importantly, he had those teams over-performing. It's why he won Coach of the Year back then, one of those rare years in which the award was actually earned.

Would've loved to see those teams with a healthy Grant Hill.

I think you guys are a bit mixed up on the history.

The year that Doc won Coach of the Year, he didn't have any of those guys. No McGrady, no Miller, no Hill.

His best player was Darrell Armstrong. The rest of the rotation consisted of Bo Outlaw, Ben Wallace (before Wallace blossomed), John Amaechi, Chucky Atkins, Pat Garrity etc...basically one NBA starter and a bunch of bench players.

A few years back I did a comparison to try to find a team with less talent that ended up .500 and couldn't find anything even close.

This team Stevens has is worlds better in terms of talent. David Lee and Tyler Zeller are better than almost anyone Doc had, and we don't even play them.

The "Doc only wins with talent" trope is completely absurd. Just like the "Doc doesn't play rookies" trope. And the "Doc doesn't develop young players" trope.

Anyone with a rudimentary grasp of the history can see this. But hey, it's the internet, why let facts get in the way of a ridiculous narrative or three.

What Boris said.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I think that you underrate how far Doc took some untalented teams.

which untalented teams did Doc take far??

the team that had Dhoward/Torkulu?  The team that had the big three? The team that had Griffin/Paul?

Rivers has a place in the league and so does CBS.  Rivers is better for managing big personalities/star players. CBS better at developing/managing underrated blue coller workers like Crowder/Smart/KO

Rivers never coached Dwight Howard... O.o

OK. Tracy mcgrady then

Yay! He had one good player in Tracy McGrady, a 21 year-old at that. And practically no one else of note making worthwhile contributions. Yet, he had those teams with winning records and got them into the playoffs.

Prior to that he led a team whose best player was Darrel Armstrong to a .500 record. It does seem like you have no notion on how bad the talent Rivers was working with, and how hard he had them playing.

To discount the accomplishments with those teams, just to accentuate your love for Stevens, is absurd.

A young Mike Miller was on that team also right?

He was pretty good.

We can also say that Bradley is pretty good, that Turner is pretty good, that Crowder is pretty good, that Amir is pretty good, etc., etc..

They're decent players who play a role, that's it. They aren't super stars or anything.

But yeah, pretty much a rookie and a sophomore Mike Miller. That's what he was counting on.

I agree with you. But Mike Miller was better than AB or Crowder. Your post just got me remembering that Mcgrady/Miller combo. To bad they were never able to surround them with better players.

I'd say he was more on par with what Bradley offers us right now, but Crowder this particular season is a head above them.

We also have to account for Miller being a rookie and a sophomore, and the learning curve that comes with it. Surely Doc deserves some credit there, I mean he had to count on 30 minutes or so a night from Miller to get that team to the playoffs.

The main point in all of this is that people are here trying to argue that "look at Stevens what he's accomplished with THIS level of talent, Doc can't hold a candle to him", but forget that Doc had similar teams in the past, one can argue even worse than this (and I'd argue that easily), and had similar success. But more importantly, he had those teams over-performing. It's why he won Coach of the Year back then, one of those rare years in which the award was actually earned.

Would've loved to see those teams with a healthy Grant Hill.

I think you guys are a bit mixed up on the history.

The year that Doc won Coach of the Year, he didn't have any of those guys. No McGrady, no Miller, no Hill.

His best player was Darrell Armstrong. The rest of the rotation consisted of Bo Outlaw, Ben Wallace (before Wallace blossomed), John Amaechi, Chucky Atkins, Pat Garrity etc...basically one NBA starter and a bunch of bench players.

A few years back I did a comparison to try to find a team with less talent that ended up .500 and couldn't find anything even close.

This team Stevens has is worlds better in terms of talent. David Lee and Tyler Zeller are better than almost anyone Doc had, and we don't even play them.

The "Doc only wins with talent" trope is completely absurd. Just like the "Doc doesn't play rookies" trope. And the "Doc doesn't develop young players" trope.

Anyone with a rudimentary grasp of the history can see this. But hey, it's the internet, why let facts get in the way of a ridiculous narrative or three.

Not confused here, I've already addressed the team where Doc's best player was Armstrong prior to that post. But that was only one year, his whole stay with Orlando was filled with teams that lack much talent and consistently outperformed.

But yeah I agree with pretty much all you said.

[Evantime34]

That we were compensated with RJ Hunter for upgrading our coach is amazing.

[LilRip]

DISCLAIMER - I absolutely LOVE Coach Brad Stevens and what he HAS done, IS doing, and WILL do for this team in the coming years.

With THAT being said, I absolutely LOVE the REVISIONIST HISTORIANS on here who NOW give Coach Tibs the credit for BOS's past successes.

Just brilliant.

This. I even feel bad that I replied to this thread and bumped it up.

[Ogaju]

DISCLAIMER - I absolutely LOVE Coach Brad Stevens and what he HAS done, IS doing, and WILL do for this team in the coming years.

With THAT being said, I absolutely LOVE the REVISIONIST HISTORIANS on here who NOW give Coach Tibs the credit for BOS's past successes.

Just brilliant.

This. I even feel bad that I replied to this thread and bumped it up.

Thibs getting credit for team success is not revisionist history. He got a lot of credit at the time. Why do you think he was hired by Chicago? Thibs was a well known name in a position that you usually do not even know the name of the coach.

[KeepRondo]

Tp! Doc is not a good basketball coach. I argued it almost his whole tenure here. Imo, he cost us one or two championships.

Maybe but KG was hurt one year and the Lakers were no scrubs.

I wish we got two championships also but it's not like it was a surprise we only got one.

Maybe Tony Allen rotted on our bench while Kobe went nuts.

And maybe Mr. Personality Manager refused to bench Ray Allen when he was ice cold.

Kobe went nuts in game 6. No way we had a chance there. Sheed played great in game 7 and it looked like we had that game. Maybe I'm sour because we lost but it felt like we got a bad run of fouls called on us in the fourth.

You don't think Tony could have slowed Kobe?

not in game 6. That was one of the greatest finals appearances ever. But game 7 we had them. I blame the officials way more then the rotations. Rivers also is the type of coach who is going to ride the guys who got him there. It's part of the reason he gets the most out of his veterans. It's a mutual respect between coach and player.

In the end he helped get us to game 7. Officials took that game from us.

that is not mutual respect. That is a lack of judgment and ability to adjust.

What move would you have gone to?

You want to put Tony Allen in and run a play for him in game 7 of the NBA championship?

Or Nate Robinson? In what world do you take Ray Allen out for Nate Robinson or Tony Allen in game 7?

Maybe if Doc had Olynyk or Smart or Jerebko on the bench. Let's face it. Stevens has a less talented but deeper team then Rivers. Don't get things twisted.

PLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE!!! Don't even dare compare CBS to Glenn Rivers in coaching. Rivers accepts his inability to coach when he hightailed it out of town at the slightest hint of 'trouble'. He ran to a team a loaded team only to do no better than the fired coach.

How dare you talk about CBS having deeper talent. You want to know why we are enjoying our team now? Its because we have a coach. The reason we look deep is we have a real coach that actually coaches his team up and plays the players he has. Rivers rides his stars. He can never do the job CBS has done with this Boston team.

Further evidence of Rivers' acceptance of his ineptness is the amount of NBA HEAD COACHES he has on the bench next to him. He has about 2 or three former head coaches on his bench. The guy cannot coach. Whatever coaching the 2008 team got was Thibs.

If you aren't capable of seeing that we have more depth on this team then the one Rivers coached, then it's not worth debating with you.

The current Celtics roster is deep? Don't you understand that depth is relative? Your depth is as much a function of quality of starters as it is quality of reserves. Now tell me again just how deep we are when most of the players that Brad as turned into the envy of the league were said not to be quality starters at the beginning of the season.

Every team would want Smart and Olynyk on their team. And for all the hate he gets, most teams could use ET also. Also, teams over the cap would have wanted Jerebko, who is a nice 3 and D guy. You must be a bad judge of talent.

of course they would, after CBS has coached em up. Who wouldn't.

I guess Zeller, Lee, Young, RJ and Rozier must not be coached by Stevens because according to you, they should be solid players under Stevens.

If Doc was coaching the team you would probably have a fit that Young can't get any minutes.

[Ogaju]

The kids have got a lot of run under CBS. Don't you watch the games?

[KeepRondo]

The kids have got a lot of run under CBS. Don't you watch the games?

you keep making ridiculous statements man.

Unless there is an injury this rotation is set.

Young Gerald Green saw more floor time then James Young.

[GC003332]

Doc put in the hard yards the early years with Orlando and the Celtics, he knows the system, used the Championship on his resume to get that dual role with the Clippers and a pay upgrade, I don't blame him for not wanting to go through another rebuild.
Once you have had that level of success why take a step back, There is a reason that some coaches take a year off or two and wait for a better opportunity to come their way.Just happens that his happened while still under contract.It all worked out for the best in the end.
It is a good strategy to follow.
He gets guys to play hard for him for the most part and doesn't appear to lose many locker rooms.

My only issue with the guy is that he is a talker.