If this is Sully, is it almost time to say goodbye?

[Evantime34]

Ainge isn't stupid.  Whatever his intentions are when drafting someone, that doesn't mean he gets locked onto his initial assessment.  He has an idea of what Sullinger is worth.  It's probably different from what he projected Sullinger would be worth now when he drafted him.  He's too good to salary dump for whatever you can get and not good enough to be untouchable.

Amir Johnson was a gamble that he would at least be a quality reserve worth his contract if healthy with a shot at being someone who could be as valuable as Paul Millsap if given the right role, but with more of his value coming on defense rather than offense.  If he is not used in a trade, I think there is a good chance he gets signed to three or four year deal when his current contract expires.

I think Ainge keeps Sullinger unless he gets a great offer and won't hesitate to pull the trigger if he thinks he win the proposed trade.  If Sullinger remains a Celtic and enters restricted free agency, Ainge probably lowballs him, matches a reasonable offer sheet, and lets him walk while getting nothing return if some team offers him a stupid contract.  There is a non-zero risk of the latter happening.

I'd rather get something for him now than lose him for nothing. But if a team offers him a huge contract and Ainge doesn't want to match, I'd agree with the decision.

It's really a shame he's shot so poorly this season, he's costing himself a lot of money.

[walker834]

It's probably a good thing.  If the doctors give his back the ok and we get him for  Crowder money with stipulations due to the injury concerns that's a good deal.

[Snakehead]

Ainge isn't stupid.  Whatever his intentions are when drafting someone, that doesn't mean he gets locked onto his initial assessment.  He has an idea of what Sullinger is worth.  It's probably different from what he projected Sullinger would be worth now when he drafted him.  He's too good to salary dump for whatever you can get and not good enough to be untouchable.

Amir Johnson was a gamble that he would at least be a quality reserve worth his contract if healthy with a shot at being someone who could be as valuable as Paul Millsap if given the right role, but with more of his value coming on defense rather than offense.  If he is not used in a trade, I think there is a good chance he gets signed to three or four year deal when his current contract expires.

I think Ainge keeps Sullinger unless he gets a great offer and won't hesitate to pull the trigger if he thinks he win the proposed trade.  If Sullinger remains a Celtic and enters restricted free agency, Ainge probably lowballs him, matches a reasonable offer sheet, and lets him walk while getting nothing return if some team offers him a stupid contract.  There is a non-zero risk of the latter happening.

Yup.  TP.

I would low, low ball Sully given his play this season and how much of a joke all that "in shape" talk was.  I just don't see him getting any better personally and there's a good chance he gets worse as weight takes its toll on him plus the back issues.

[walker834]

I thought all of you wanted to get rid of him? 24 to 3 in voting lol. I know i'm 1 of those 3.

[CelticPride2016]

Amir Johnson has plantar fasciitis. He is also a form of truth. People said he was the advanced stats kind of player. I agree with the person above who classifies him as a Crowder, a vital piece to this year's team, rather than say a Jordan Crawford we throw out there because the games must still be played.

Sully was not drafted with the future Celtics in mind. He was selected in a past context when we still had Pierce and KG.

One by one all the players from the old team have left except for Avery and Jared.

Bradley apparently fits in with the new team identity.

If Smart is not capable of playing pg, then there could be another logjam. But that is an unfolding story.

Sullinger is also an unfolding story. Apparently he cannot get into shape or feels having extra pounds is the only way he can make it in the NBA.

As someone mentioned above, Danny and the team are not happy with his conditioning.

You can't force someone in your life to act the way you want them to. I saw Rondo trying to incorporate Brad's style. He just wasn't very effective. Green we all know just never made the leap and he too was traded.

Bass turned it around last year. We probably didn't resign him for the same reason we let Humphries go, the power forward logjam.

Now it is Jared Sullinger's turn.

The question Danny must be pondering is, is this the final Sully we are getting?

Guys like Amir, Turner, and Lee are off the books, as is Sullinger, after this season. Maybe Amir is also on the clock for evaluation as much as Sullinger. The key question is will there be regret if Sully is moved? Will he haunt us as Chauncey Billups did? Olynyk and Smart are in that category. Look at Dallas. They lost the trade last year more because Crowder has emerged than that Rondo was a failure as a Maverick.

They currently play Dwight Powell extra minutes in a last ditch effort to save face.

I understand Danny's motivation for squeezing all he can out of various so-called assets. I also understand he'd rather we miss the playoffs than run on a treadmill. Ainge is unpredictable. The only thing he is consistent with is he doesn't throw players under the bus except for Bogans.

If Sullinger isn't traded by the deadline, then he will have the second half to show he can get into shape. If it's true he is going to stop shooting threes, that is good considering he has always shot them around 25%. It may make him a better player, but apparently Brad Stevens wants to give every player the green light for three pointers. Otherwise, how does one explain Evan Turner shooting threes?

I expect Sullinger to be traded soon. Or I could see him signing with a team like Brooklyn next year. Sacramento wanted Rondo and finally got him. Maybe the Lakers also wanted Rajon? Other than those teams, did anyone want Rajon Rondo?

It's going to be the same with Sullinger, especially if he plays the second half the same as the first with no improvement in conditioning.

It's said when looking for an apartment, never choose the first option. We are turning into a running team which plays tough defense. Sully as constituted does not fit into such a philosophy. It's not because he's short. Height is no longer such a big factor in basketball. It's just the way the league has evolved.

But that doesn't mean the new NBA center prototype is going to be an overweight six foot eight power forward.

It would be a guy like Bill Russell, a man in shape.

The debate has always been can Sully and Olynyk play together. If they can't, then having both on the roster is a dead end. Blocking shots might be overrated, but like said above somewhere if you can avoid the thread hijacking by that other person, you need guys who can rotate fast for team defense. It is annoying that Olynyk has short arms which don't allow him to block many shots, but at least he can rotate because he's not thirty pounds overweight playing a game that depends on speed and flexibility.

[spikelovetheCelts]

Ainge isn't stupid.  Whatever his intentions are when drafting someone, that doesn't mean he gets locked onto his initial assessment.  He has an idea of what Sullinger is worth.  It's probably different from what he projected Sullinger would be worth now when he drafted him.  He's too good to salary dump for whatever you can get and not good enough to be untouchable.

Amir Johnson was a gamble that he would at least be a quality reserve worth his contract if healthy with a shot at being someone who could be as valuable as Paul Millsap if given the right role, but with more of his value coming on defense rather than offense.  If he is not used in a trade, I think there is a good chance he gets signed to three or four year deal when his current contract expires.

I think Ainge keeps Sullinger unless he gets a great offer and won't hesitate to pull the trigger if he thinks he win the proposed trade.  If Sullinger remains a Celtic and enters restricted free agency, Ainge probably lowballs him, matches a reasonable offer sheet, and lets him walk while getting nothing return if some team offers him a stupid contract.  There is a non-zero risk of the latter happening.

I'd rather get something for him now than lose him for nothing. But if a team offers him a huge contract and Ainge doesn't want to match, I'd agree with the decision.

It's really a shame he's shot so poorly this season, he's costing himself a lot of money.

We can always do a sign and trade too. This is the summer almost EVERY FA will be over paid.
I see him going in a deadline deal this year Hopefully for Dano.

[walker834]

I think what's most important is what is healthy for Sullinger personally as far his career and life.   Like was said we have a winning record when Sully starts vs when he doesn't.  Against toronto we played an up tempo pace at the end and lost the game.  Amir really wasn't a factor at all. Neither was Sullinger.

We don't even know if Sully is overweight currently and how healthy he actually is. His numbers are down, but he has been playing pretty tough this year I feel.

Amir has his own health issues.  I feel like optimally we'd like to upgrade both spots and both players could play better themselves whether it's them or someone else.

Sullinger is a guy who can contribute to winning basketball with us though. He needs to take care of himself, but we don't even know what his health situation is. He could just be adjusting to the style of play right now for all we know.

I haven't shut the door on either player. I don't see either player being traded in the immediate future at all.  I think Sullinger is still a very valuable piece here.  So is Amir.

It all depends really.  I gave scenarios why too. We have a team option on Amir.  We have rights on Sullinger.  It's still very much dependant on a lot of factors.  I think optimally Sullinger would be the guy to stay and I gave reasons why, but who knows right now.

I value all our guys.  Turner quite a bit in different ways. Even  David Lee but let's be real if Lee is in that role next year over Sully that's not optimally what we want.

[Androslav]

I was cheering for him fullheartedly, i still do.
But lets be real. He is a great rebounder with adhesive hands and good touch.  He isnt a 5, can't anchor a defense nor he has the lenght or lift to finish close to the basket. His lift is unexistant and it is affecting his % even with the good touch he has. Unfortunately he isn't a 4 too. Shooting from the three or midrange is well below league avarage. And he can't guard any of the new breed 4s, perimiter d is atrocious. His performance drops as the months pass. First 15-20 games he was solid, but u need to be in tip top shape to be a productive player in the nba.
I think many guys got emotionaly attached to him (thats why we are fans ) and cant see that he is a out of shape bench player.
He is our best post defender, but what is the worth of that when in every article we post we keep talking about the upgrade at his position.
I still love his hands. Those lovely hands that never drop the once caught ball.

[walker834]

I don't understand why so many people want to get rid of him. If you like why not keep him? Kelly is coming on.  Sully is still a good guy to have. With Mickey.  I think we need a legit center. Why wouldn't you want to have KO,  Sully, Mickey and a really good center. I don't get it.  People are too focused on stats with certain players that are there to do other things.  Perk never would have been a celtic either if it was about stats.

Kelly to me is going to be a beast.  Sully and Mickey would be great as our 2 other bigs with a better version of Amir at center.  Zeller could even hang on as our 5th big.  That's my dream.

Still rooting for Sully. All this stuff about he's overweight or he's going to cost too much is all speculation.

Doesnt Sully compliment Mickey, KO, and a better version of Amir well?  I dont get why people are in such a hurry to get rid of him.

[walker834]

Sully is in a different position than Al j. He's more like perk which presents us with something else.  It's like people expect us to have 4 superstar bigs.  You can't play them all. You need guys who fit and do different things. Kelly is going to be a stud imo. We need another guy to start.  Al j needed to start and once we got KG he was expendable because we had Perk.

I'm more concerned about Sully's health.  He seems like a guy who would fit here.

No Sully isn't a shot blocker. He's a physical defender and rebounder though.  Mickey is a shotblocker.  KO is an offensive juggernaut with length. Amir is here for now and pretty good.

[walker834]

Besides KO, Sully, Mickey and a  better version of Amir at all optimal levels is 4 superstar bigs who do different things. More like underrated superstars who do different things.  But elite in their own way.  Amir isn't really elite at anything.  He's a really good pick setter.  He's pretty solid all around. What we really need is an elite center like him who is like an elite version of him.

AL j was an elite post player who was going to demand starter minutes and a max deal.  KG was much more worth that.   Sully is an elite rebounder if healthy and completely overlooked that way where he isn't.  He's a pf. perk was a center but was an elite post defender and did not demand max money or minutes.

All he does is rebound... We need rebounding so I don't know. We also need post defense and Sully is good at that too.  Not sold on David Lee lol.

Sully to me is doing what we need from him.  He isn't Rondo either.  People are too concerned with numbers when it comes to Sully.

[JSD]

After this season the Celtics should try to retain Sully at a reasonable rate but let every other free agent walk.

[walker834]

I agree!  Good. lol.

It depends on Sully's health and long term outlook though. I really like Turner the persona nd player too and what he's done here but we need to give his minutes to smart. Smart can do so many more things.  Amir is a good interm fit and i like him too but he isnt a long term solution. He's too similar to mickey. Mickey has the potential to be a better version of him. I'm not saying Mickey is it though. 

We need to target a big man I feel.  And a wing scorer behind Crowder. We could even try to package Crowder and Amir for someone really good but I dont know on that. Even Sully. 

All this is dependant on Sully's health and what we can sign him for. If it's crowder money with stipulations and the doctors give Sully the thumbs up etc.

We don't want to be stuck with David lee past this year. 

[walker834]

We might be able to do better than Sully in free agency or the draft too but I'm not really seeing it.  It depends on Sully's health. Taj Gibson. We could try to get a different kind of player etc.  It's not set in stone either way. I think Sully is a better fit than Taj. Taj is a different kind of player but I could be wrong. Taj is more like Mickey to me.

Sully is kind of a rare player.

I'm overcomplicating it anyways trying to explain, when we drafted Sully for a reason.  The goal should be to keep him. We have bird rights on him. It's not complicated. you don't lose your own player and then try to replace him. That's the whole point.

Bradley was the same thing.  Sully has injury concerns but he's been healthy so.  Ainge is smart and drafts players with purpose. Sometimes that changes.  But in Sully's case it hasn't to my knowledge unless something has changed as far as his long term outlook as far as his health.

[jambr380]

The main problem with Sullinger has always been his weight which has led to reduced playing time and injuries. If he is not going to correct that, then he cannot be an integral part of the C's future. It's not like he is only 10-15 lbs overweight; he is probably playing 40-50 lbs over what he should be.

Also, it doesn't seem like a particularly urgent matter to him as he said being born with his mom's derrière is why he is effective at basketball. I like Sully - he has great hands and positions himself well, but he is just way too overweight to commit to long term.