It is not set in stone that sully is gone. The whole point i'm making is that longterm Sully is a better option than Amir. The game is played at different speeds anyways and Sully is more versatile. Having SUlly in the starting lineup and KO off the bench or KO starting and Sully and Mickey off the bench etc. What we need is a better starting center than Amir ultimately.
See, I really don't understand your argument here.
How is Sully more versatile than Amir Johnson? How is Sully better than Amir Johnson? You keep saying it, but have have not once given an actual reason/justification to back it up.
How can you
possibly argue that Sully is more versatile than Amir Johnson when Amir can defend the paint, defend the perimeter and protect the basket - while all Sully can do is defend the paint one on one.
Sully cannot defend the perimeter, and he is useless as a rim protector. Offensively, there is nothing Sully can do that Amir cannot. Sully is a better rebounder, but Amir is still a good rebounder in his own right.
So WHY do you insist that Sully is better (and more versatile) than Amir?
Maybe Amir will resign cheap and he'll be our back up center but I don't know. I think he is too similar to Mickey who is more versatile and cheaper ultimately.
There you go with this 'versatile' argument again. I don't get it. Amir Johnson is averaging Per-36 numbers of 12.3 points, 9.3 rebounds, 2.5 assists, 1 steal and 1.8 blocks. He's shooting 71% inside three feet, 55% from 3-10 feet and 46% from 10-16 feet and 28% from three. He can defend three different positions on the court when he needs to, he makes great decisions on both ends of the court, and he's a veteran leader in the locker room.
Aside from three point shooting, what exactly is there that Amir Johnson does not do?
The answer is, he does everything.
Sully cannot provide the defensive versatility, smart decision making, or veteran leadership that Amir Johnson does.
Jordan Mickey cannot provide the passing, inside scoring or experience that Amir Johnson does.
You keep trying to argue that everybody is more versatile than Amir Johnson, yet you completely refuse to give a reason to justify this claim.
Lets play a game.
From now on every time you reply with a point, you have to add "because" followed by a reason. Can you do that, please?
We also need a better wing scorer than Crowder. Signing Sully to a deal like Crowder depending on stipulations is what I'd expect. I'd expect Sully to be like Crowder for us. He can start. He can come off the bench depending on the young guys.
Crowder got his deal because he just finished the season averaging 7.7 points, 3.6 rebounds and 1.1 assists in 20 minutes a night after spending the previous two seasons as a sub-20 minute a night role player.
The deal worked for Boston and it worked for Jae. Ainge took gamble on the hope that Crowder would become much more of a player than he was last year. Crowder took the deal because he hadn't shown enough, and he knew no other team out there was going to offer that type of long term security.
It made sense for both teams, and in the end Ainge won because if Crowder were a free agent after this season, he'd be getting $10M+ (see Demarre Carol as an example).
The distinct difference here is that Sully has been playing borderline-starter minutes for three straight years now, and over that stretch he's been consistently averaging 15/10/3 Per 36. He's not an unknown quantity like Crowder - everybody in the league knows who Sully is, what he does well, what he does poorly, etc. He's gotten enough exposure to ensure everybody knows him by now.
On the free agent market, 23 year old big men with double-double potential ALWAYS get stupidly overpaid with double figure salaries. It's stupid, but it's the reality. Even last year, with the lower cap, Sully probably would have gotten $8m-$10m from somebody. This year with the cap rising, it's certain that he will get that.
The only way Sully could possibly not get $10M a year is if every single team has a major concern about his conditioning and injury risk.
We need a starting caliber center and a wing scorer to go with what we have.
I agree - but we need a starting caliber center and we also need a starting caliber power forward. Right now we really don't have either.
Sully is not a starting caliber Power Forward, nor is he a starting caliber Center. He is not good enough or consistent enough to be a starting player on a championship contender. He's barely good enough to be a starter on a fringe playoff team.
His only value to us is as a bench player, an even then he is of limited use because he is a high injury risk, has a bad attitude, and tends to lose us games with his horrible decision making.
Right now the closest thing we have to a starting caliber PF / C are Amir Johnson and Kelly Olynyk.
We need to weed out the Lee's and Turners of the world. Sully is like Perkins in ways. But Sully still has a chance to be a player for us.
Being a versatile team is what we want. We don't want to be a team that can just play at one speed.
As long as Sully is on the team, we can only play at one speed - slow, tanker truck speed.
If being able to play at varying speeds is what you are looking for, then having Sully as your starting Center / PF does not help your cause.
I'd rather have Sully over Amir depending on the price.
Ok - what price tag is this based upon?
Because for me to consider taking Sully over Amir Johnson, he'd need to be at least
half Amir's price - and even then I would lean towards Amir.
But for you, personally, what would be the absolute maximum you would be willing to pay for Sully?
I don't understand why so many people want to get rid of him. If you like why not keep him? Kelly is coming on. Sully is still a good guy to have. With Mickey. I think we need a legit center. Why wouldn't you want to have KO, Sully, Mickey and a really good center. I don't get it. People are too focused on stats with certain players that are there to do other things. Perk never would have been a celtic either if it was about stats.
We have Sully, Zeller, Johnson, Olynyk, Mickey, Lee and Jerebko.
That's seven bigs.
You said yourself that we need a better starting center - add one of those, and it makes it 8 bigs.
Realistically, we can make room for four or five at the most (for regular guys, one emergency backup). That means if we are going to sign a better center, at least three bigs have to go.
* The obvious first choice is Lee - he's expiring and doesn't fit the team, so easy to let him go.
* The second choice is probably Zeller - he's also expiring, and hasn't played much this year.
The third choice gets harder. You have Olynyk, Johnson, Sully and Jerebko (plus lets assume, a new starting center too).
Out of those guys:
* Olynyk still has a year on his contract
* Amir still has a year on his contract
* Jerebko still has a year on his contract
* Sully is expiring
Who is the easiest one to get rid of? Answer is Sully. Why? Because his contract is expiring, so we can just let him walk.
Why else might we get rid of Sully?
Because he's a free agent after this season, which means there is absolutely no way for us to know that he will WANT to re-sign with Boston. What if we hold off on all trades, cut Amir, then wait until the end of the season - only to see Sully decide to sign with some other team in free agency? Then we've lost a good big man (Amir) and lost Sully for nothing. Lose-lose situation.
Or maybe Boston offers him say, $8M, and Sully wants to come back...but then another team offers him $12M. Then lets say Boston refuses to match, and Sully leaves.
We don't need to worry about any of that with Amir, Olynyk or Jerebko for next year - they are all still under contract. So why throw away a sure thing, to gamble on a guy who might turn his back on us and walk away?
Why gamble everything on the very slim chance that we MIGHT be able to get sully to re-sign on a Crowder like deal? It's just not worth the gamble.
Still rooting for Sully. All this stuff about he's overweight or he's going to cost too much is all speculation.
The salary stuff is speculation (granted, it's deeply thought out and well supported speculation), but the overweight thing is not.
It is a
fact that Sully is overweight. There is no speculation about it.
When Sullinger comes off the bench, we are 2-6.
When Sullinger starts, we are 19-14.
And Sullinger said that he is no longer going to try to shoot threes, which are a big part of his shooting woes. He said when he pops out, he will shoot a long two, rather than going for a three.
Sully says a lot of things.
Sully has said three years in a row that he was getting in shape during the off season, and would be in shape when the season starts. He lied each time.
At the start of the season he said he was going to shoot less threes and play more around the basket. He's still taking something like 30% of his shots from three and some 20% around the basket.
Sully saying he's going to stop shooting threes is like Dwight Howard trying to tell the world that Stan Van Gundy was his best buddy...about 15 seconds after Stan told the world that Dwight asked to have him fired.
Sully makes up stories like it's going out of fashion. You can't believe a word he says.
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Topic: If this is Sully, is it almost time to say goodbye? (Read 19911 times)