If this is Sully, is it almost time to say goodbye?

[walker834]

you seem to want to take what I said out of context while ignoring everything else I said.

I told you I was making a comparison and you missed the point of what I'm saying in regards to Sully. That it is not set in stone that Sully should be gone.

I just made a whole post about Crowder and Amir explaining my rational and why that doesn't make much sense either right now. You weren't listening.

I also said we don't ahve a starting center as it stands and really need Amir that way.

Yes i value Amir more than David Lee or Turner. I don't value him more than crowder.  I also don't value Amir more than Sully long term.  But even that is dependant. It depends on a lot of things like Sully's health. How much he wants. Stipulations. Trade options etc.

Amir to me is not a great long term option no. He has value now to us. Maybe to other teams. But he is our only  starting center currently on our roster and he is far from legit as a championship  caliber starting player.

[Evantime34]

After thinking about it some more I don't think it's time to say goodbye to Sullinger on the C's. I do however, think it's time to say bye to Sully as our starting center.

[walker834]

After thinking about it some more I don't think it's time to say goodbye to Sullinger on the C's. I do however, think it's time to say bye to Sully as our starting center.

This is true. He's not our starting center though. He's our starting PF. Amir is our starting center and he is not a championship caliber starting center more than likely.  Maybe he is. Maybe we'll surprise this year. But long term no.  If you think that is funny it is.

[Evantime34]

After thinking about it some more I don't think it's time to say goodbye to Sullinger on the C's. I do however, think it's time to say bye to Sully as our starting center.

This is true. He's not our starting center though. He's our starting PF. Amir is our starting center and he is not a championship caliber starting center more than likely.  Maybe he is. Maybe we'll surprise this year. But long term no.

Disagree, Sullinger guards the other team's opposing center 99% of the time, that makes him our center.

[walker834]

He's our starting pf who can guard multiple positons and back up our center.  He isn't our starting center.

[walker834]

I wrote that to start this whole thing off that Sully is our most physical defender right now and people laughed at me.  He's valuable! I think I explained that in a variety of ways and other reasons too.

I also explained why Sully is more valuable long term over Amir as a backup.   ebcause he can shift to center.  Amir is too much like Mickey.

[Evantime34]

He's our starting pf who can guard multiple positons and back up our center.  He isn't our starting center.

How do you judge what position a player is playing? I judge it by who that player guards and Sullinger at this point and time almost exclusively guards centers. Sullinger always defends the other team's biggest player.

Please explain your position instead of stating it as fact, when it is clearly not a fact since we disagree on it.

[walker834]

You are debating me but proving my point. Sully is valuable! I explained why he is different and more versatiile than the other players we have and how he compliments them and that was the whole point. Read the thread because it's all there.

[loco_91]

The fact is that PF is a really deep position in the NBA, maybe second to PG but it's close. Sully is clearly above replacement level due to his rebounding ability and well-rounded game, but not by much. I think we should give him a slightly lowball offer next year ($10-12m) and if he takes it, great. If he can find more money elsewhere, so be it. We can always just pick up our option on JJ and Amir, and we won't miss him.

[Evantime34]

You are debating me but proving my point. Sully is valuable! I explained why he is different and more versatiile than the other players we have and how he compliments them and that was the whole point. Read the thread because it's all there.

He is absolutely valuable right now, because we don't have a guy who can do a good job defending NBA 5's other than him.

To me this indicates that we need to upgrade the position and move him to the bench. It is not an indication that he is a long term piece on this team, only that we have no one better at his position right now.

[LooseCannon]

Yes i value Amir more than David Lee or Turner. I don't value him more than crowder.  I also don't value Amir more than Sully long term.  But even that is dependant. It depends on a lot of things like Sully's health. How much he wants. Stipulations. Trade options etc.

Amir to me is not a great long term option no. He has value now to us. Maybe to other teams. But he is our only  starting center currently on our roster and he is far from legit as a championship  caliber starting player.

Amir Johnson is a legitimate starter on a championship caliber team if that team needs a productive role player at center and doesn't need a star center.  He provides above-average production for a big man, but seems better in limited minutes because of health concerns.

I think he is closer in value to Crowder than Turner.  To clarify, that means that I believe that I Johnson is more valuable than the average of the value of those two players.

[walker834]

The fact is most of you are clueless. If you asked Ainge he'd tell you this.  He drafted Sully and KO as the core of our team because he liked them both and they complimented each other well.  KO off the bench and Sully starting.  Both are still  young and have room for improvement. KO could eventually be a starter but his defense and rebounding have a ways to go.  He also will never be a physical defender like Sully is. I'm more concerned about Sully's back and conditionng for that reason.  Not because he sucks.

It was so Sully could be our starter at PF and KO could come off the bench.  Both players have the ability to start. Both players can also backup the center spot and move around. Neither is a legit starting center. What we need is a legit starting center to go with them.  Mickey is a backup pf and c and more a bench guy and insurance if Sully's back is a problem. He still is not the load Sully is. Amir is more a short term solution.

Sully is still young and improving himself. So is KO.  You don't just move that on a whim. It was never either KO or Sully. Ainge drafted them to pair them together as part of a core to a championship team.

KO could maybe eventually be the starter but he is still a ways off as far as parts of his game. Sully is there to compliment him that way and be a more physical defender and rebounder.

Ainge would never say this to the media because  he has to negotiate with these guys and isn't stupid and doesn't want to price himself out. Plus these players need to develop.

[walker834]

Sully was never supposed to be our starting center nor is he. He is our starting PF.  Amir is a fill in and insurance if Sully's back is a problem for the interm.  Plus we don't have a legit starting championship caliber center. Amir is that for now.

People say Sully is 6'9 and undersized. So what. KO is 7 feet. They compliment each other. Ainge drafted Sully and then KO because KO had more length and to pair them together as a champonship caliber pf duo.

[LooseCannon]

Ainge isn't stupid.  Whatever his intentions are when drafting someone, that doesn't mean he gets locked onto his initial assessment.  He has an idea of what Sullinger is worth.  It's probably different from what he projected Sullinger would be worth now when he drafted him.  He's too good to salary dump for whatever you can get and not good enough to be untouchable.

Amir Johnson was a gamble that he would at least be a quality reserve worth his contract if healthy with a shot at being someone who could be as valuable as Paul Millsap if given the right role, but with more of his value coming on defense rather than offense.  If he is not used in a trade, I think there is a good chance he gets signed to three or four year deal when his current contract expires.

I think Ainge keeps Sullinger unless he gets a great offer and won't hesitate to pull the trigger if he thinks he win the proposed trade.  If Sullinger remains a Celtic and enters restricted free agency, Ainge probably lowballs him, matches a reasonable offer sheet, and lets him walk while getting nothing return if some team offers him a stupid contract.  There is a non-zero risk of the latter happening.

[walker834]

Turner is here for the same reasons Amir is.  We traded Rondo and drafted Smart and Smart is not fully developed yet.  Plus we don't have a legit scoring wing to go with Crowder.  Amir is more valuable beacuse he starts and we have no other center on our roster. We have James young and smart and RJ so Turner is really more expendable than Amir is right now. Plus we don't know about Sully's back. We have David Lee for that reason too as insurance. We also have Mickey developing.

Guys like Turner, Lee and Amir are not our plan A though. They are here to supplant players and as insurance. 

No Ainge is not stupid. But that's the point.