Nerlens Noel Available

[kozlodoev]

Are you really comparing Noel to Drummond? Not only does Drummond have great hands, but he operates with both strength (unlike Noel) and athleticism.

Yes, and he also makes Noel look like Mark Price from the charity stripe (.390 for his career, in case you wondered ). So I'm guessing you don't find him that hot of a commodity, because you have to sit him in the end of games.

[wiley]

How many people who gripe about Tyler Zeller's offensive game have given serious thought to what Nerlens Noel would look operating in the Celts offense?  What exactly would he do out there? 

Exciting talent defensively, but it's hard to see him thriving in a system that prizes versatility, skill, and range on offense.

On this I claim ignorance.  I have no idea how Brad would use Noel.  But I certainly get the
Diverse skill set issue.  And counterbalancing the homerism argument of spence is how easy it is to brush off the weaknesses of players in other teams.  I have a lot of trust in Danny.  If Ainge traded Smart straight up for Noel I'd jump on the Noel bandwagon.  Meanwhile I hope he doesn't.  Time is going to solve this debate..

[kozlodoev]

According to:  http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2601349-nba-rumors-latest-trade-buzz-on-nerlens-noel-ty-lawson-and-caron-butler

Smart, Dallas 1st, and Philly's 2nd back to them for Noel.  Money wise, it's a push and they appear to be in need of a PG.

Yea/Nay?

I'm a Yea.

That is "sourced" by BleacherReport by via Philly beat writer who points to a random Twitter user who says the Celtics "like" Noel. I'd go out on a limb here and call bull.

If there are any conversations, they probably start with Smart and one of the Nets picks. Which I doubt.

My goodness you are hilarious. Smart and a Brooklyn pick to start? For Noel? Noel may well be a defensive force, but he is no game changer. I don't see him dragging Philly's defensive rating to a respectable level, something you expect from a TRUE defensive game changer like Howard, KG or Davis. Smart on the other hand has shown that capability..

Furthermore you wish to add a Nets pick, which seems a lock for top 8. In that back range you have Jaylen Brown, Ellinson, Murray.. all good to great prospects. And you'd give that up TO START??

Well, it's a good job Danny sees things differently to you. That kind of trade would be the undoing of him

Why are you assuming I want to trade the Nets pick for Noel? Reading comprehension much? Guess I have to quote Pho, as he seems easier to digest here:

I believe Philly hangs up if the Celts aren't willing to include, as a starting point, Marcus Smart and one of the Brooklyn picks.

[ssspence]

Agree this is a pretty thin 'rumor', but i like it anyway.

This deal:

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=81686.0

I don't think they'll give us Covington. But swap him with Canaan, and I'm sure they'll talk.

You're probably right -- I'm being greedy asking for Covington here, considering he's a legitimate rotation player on a team with few. I'd probably swap in Thompson, if possible -- guy who can play the 3 with a touch go upside.

[Eddie20]

Are you really comparing Noel to Drummond? Not only does Drummond have great hands, but he operates with both strength (unlike Noel) and athleticism.

Yes, and he also makes Noel look like Mark Price from the charity stripe (.390 for his career, in case you wondered ). So I'm guessing you don't find him that hot of a commodity, because you have to sit him in the end of games.

And Noel is shooting 55% this season. If you want to think that the 1 1/2 more FT's Noel hits out of every 10 offsets the balance of EVERYTHING else Drummond does over Noel than that's on you.

You missed my point of him having to sit. It's not the FT's it's that teams can play all smalls against a Noel team forcing him to defend perimeter players and he literally has nothing offensively to take advantage of the said player on the other end. For example, we can put Crowder on him and Noel won't be able to anything against him. Drummond is a different story. He can punish small ball.

[kozlodoev]

Are you really comparing Noel to Drummond? Not only does Drummond have great hands, but he operates with both strength (unlike Noel) and athleticism.

Yes, and he also makes Noel look like Mark Price from the charity stripe (.390 for his career, in case you wondered ). So I'm guessing you don't find him that hot of a commodity, because you have to sit him in the end of games.

And Noel is shooting 55% this season. If you want to think that the 1 1/2 more FT's Noel hits out of every 10 offsets the balance of EVERYTHING else Drummond does over Noel than that's on you.

What I want to think is that your argument about defensive bigs in general is pretty hollow

[TheSundanceKid]

According to:  http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2601349-nba-rumors-latest-trade-buzz-on-nerlens-noel-ty-lawson-and-caron-butler

Smart, Dallas 1st, and Philly's 2nd back to them for Noel.  Money wise, it's a push and they appear to be in need of a PG.

Yea/Nay?

I'm a Yea.

That is "sourced" by BleacherReport by via Philly beat writer who points to a random Twitter user who says the Celtics "like" Noel. I'd go out on a limb here and call bull.

If there are any conversations, they probably start with Smart and one of the Nets picks. Which I doubt.

My goodness you are hilarious. Smart and a Brooklyn pick to start? For Noel? Noel may well be a defensive force, but he is no game changer. I don't see him dragging Philly's defensive rating to a respectable level, something you expect from a TRUE defensive game changer like Howard, KG or Davis. Smart on the other hand has shown that capability..

Furthermore you wish to add a Nets pick, which seems a lock for top 8. In that back range you have Jaylen Brown, Ellinson, Murray.. all good to great prospects. And you'd give that up TO START??

Well, it's a good job Danny sees things differently to you. That kind of trade would be the undoing of him

Why are you assuming I want to trade the Nets pick for Noel? Reading comprehension much? Guess I have to quote Pho, as he seems easier to digest here:

I believe Philly hangs up if the Celts aren't willing to include, as a starting point, Marcus Smart and one of the Brooklyn picks.

Fair enough, would you? From the way this thread is going you seem to think Smart is without value and Noel can be a double double threat without hindering the rest of the offense. So I presume you think we'd need to give up more than Smart?

I saw PhoSita's quote, it says the same thing and is still as laughable to me...

[PhoSita]

My goodness you are hilarious. Smart and a Brooklyn pick to start? For Noel? Noel may well be a defensive force, but he is no game changer. I don't see him dragging Philly's defensive rating to a respectable level, something you expect from a TRUE defensive game changer like Howard, KG or Davis. Smart on the other hand has shown that capability..

Noel had that Philly team in the top 10 in defensive efficiency last year.  He's been moved to power forward this year and has had to try and cover up Okafor's mistakes, which are many. 

You can bet that Philly will expect a return on Noel commensurate with what he's done at his best, not how he's played this year.  They have no reason to rush to trade him if the market for him is depressed by their current situation. 

They will look at Noel as one of their building block pieces, a guy they got with a top 10 pick and who has shown the talent to be one of the best young defensive bigs in the league.  If they don't get a really tantalizing offer for him, they'll keep him.

[Eddie20]

Are you really comparing Noel to Drummond? Not only does Drummond have great hands, but he operates with both strength (unlike Noel) and athleticism.

Yes, and he also makes Noel look like Mark Price from the charity stripe (.390 for his career, in case you wondered ). So I'm guessing you don't find him that hot of a commodity, because you have to sit him in the end of games.

And Noel is shooting 55% this season. If you want to think that the 1 1/2 more FT's Noel hits out of every 10 offsets the balance of EVERYTHING else Drummond does over Noel than that's on you.

What I want to think is that your argument about defensive bigs in general is pretty hollow

Posted above:
You missed my point of him having to sit. It's not the FT's it's that teams can play all smalls against a Noel team forcing him to defend perimeter players and he literally has nothing offensively to take advantage of the said player on the other end. For example, we can put Crowder on him and Noel won't be able to anything against him. Drummond is a different story. He can punish small ball.

Enlighten me then. Please create substance to my hollowness. Give me a breakdown of Noel's game. The good, the bad, and the plenty of ugly. I mean I heard you say you haven't been able to watch many C's game this year, so I really have to question how many Sixers game you've enjoyed. That kind of puts an asterisk on your Noel opinion. So please preface your response with how many times you've actually seen him play this year.

[wiley]

According to:  http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2601349-nba-rumors-latest-trade-buzz-on-nerlens-noel-ty-lawson-and-caron-butler

Smart, Dallas 1st, and Philly's 2nd back to them for Noel.  Money wise, it's a push and they appear to be in need of a PG.

Yea/Nay?

I'm a Yea.

That is "sourced" by BleacherReport by via Philly beat writer who points to a random Twitter user who says the Celtics "like" Noel. I'd go out on a limb here and call bull.

If there are any conversations, they probably start with Smart and one of the Nets picks. Which I doubt.

My goodness you are hilarious. Smart and a Brooklyn pick to start? For Noel? Noel may well be a defensive force, but he is no game changer. I don't see him dragging Philly's defensive rating to a respectable level, something you expect from a TRUE defensive game changer like Howard, KG or Davis. Smart on the other hand has shown that capability..

Furthermore you wish to add a Nets pick, which seems a lock for top 8. In that back range you have Jaylen Brown, Ellinson, Murray.. all good to great prospects. And you'd give that up TO START??

Well, it's a good job Danny sees things differently to you. That kind of trade would be the undoing of him

It's called anti-homerism bias and it leads to just as many awful trade
Ideas as homerism. 

[kozlodoev]

Fair enough, would you? From the way this thread is going you seem to think Smart is without value and Noel can be a double double threat without hindering the rest of the offense. So I presume you think we'd need to give up more than Smart?

I think they're pretty much a wash in terms of talent and potential. And I certainly think that you have to pay premium for the fact you're trading small for big, and that your player has, so far, been the more injury prone of the two. I don't think anyone will offer this year's (or probably any year's) Nets pick for Noel, and that's why I doubt any serious talks will ever take place.

[Eddie20]

It seems that the ones that really want Noel haven't seen him play much and just go off of his defensive stats, height, and athleticism. The other camp that feels he's overrated understands the holes in his game by watching him closely.

[TheSundanceKid]

My goodness you are hilarious. Smart and a Brooklyn pick to start? For Noel? Noel may well be a defensive force, but he is no game changer. I don't see him dragging Philly's defensive rating to a respectable level, something you expect from a TRUE defensive game changer like Howard, KG or Davis. Smart on the other hand has shown that capability..

Noel had that Philly team in the top 10 in defensive efficiency last year.  He's been moved to power forward this year and has had to try and cover up Okafor's mistakes, which are many. 

You can bet that Philly will expect a return on Noel commensurate with what he's done at his best, not how he's played this year.  They have no reason to rush to trade him if the market for him is depressed by their current situation. 

They will look at Noel as one of their building block pieces, a guy they got with a top 10 pick and who has shown the talent to be one of the best young defensive bigs in the league.  If they don't get a really tantalizing offer for him, they'll keep him.

I agree, they'll keep him. Just as we will keep Smart if that is the kind of trade offer that appears. Sure, Smart is not a great offensive player, but he is already there defensively. I don't know the stats as I'm not great at researching them but do you know what the defensive stats with Noel/No Okafor, Okafor/No Noel and Okafor/Noel are?

[pearljammer10]

Wow.  Smart and Sully for Noel.  Wow!
It's as if intangibles don't exist.  It's as if Sully
were David Lee!

I'd take great talent and average intangibles over average talent and great intangibles any day.

Smart is a great talent.  He'll figure out how to be more efficient on offense.
Danny would move him in the right deal but this ain't it
By miles...

Yes, I got the point. Everyone here thinks Smart will "figure it out", and Noel will be the same player for the balance of his career. Or at least that's what it looks like.

Smart's played 76 NBA games and he's only 21. People around this board praise the offense AB has developed. There's no reason to believe Smart can't improve along the same trajectory. Once he's played at least two full NBA season I'll start judging a little more.

With that being said, Noel in my eyes has been extremely overrated, but I guess a big package is what it will take to get him. I see him as a Chandler-lite when all is said and done. I'd gladly give one of our many future firsts in a package for him, maybe even a late round first as well, but wouldn't want to give up a smart, sully, or KO for him.

[TheSundanceKid]

Fair enough, would you? From the way this thread is going you seem to think Smart is without value and Noel can be a double double threat without hindering the rest of the offense. So I presume you think we'd need to give up more than Smart?

I think they're pretty much a wash in terms of talent and potential. And I certainly think that you have to pay premium for the fact you're trading small for big, and that your player has, so far, been the more injury prone of the two. I don't think anyone will offer this year's (or probably any year's) Nets pick for Noel, and that's why I doubt any serious talks will ever take place.

Yeah, I think it would end up one of those cases where both teams would rather the devil you know. Both are limited on offense and equidistant from being a sure thing so keep the one you got. Next year will show a lot in regards to their futures. If either can make the step up on offense then their trade value increases dramatically