That Rondo Thread

[GreenFaith1819]

Any player that continuously shoots in the 50-60% range on their free throws isn't playing their heart out, IMO.  They are not working on a glaring weakness in their game.  I've always had the same issue with Antoine Walker apologists.  If he loved playing for the Celtics so much, why did he let his game continue to deteriorate?

During the height of the Paul-KG-Ray era, numerous posters here seemed to note deficiencies in each player's game.

KG was criticized on here for his lack of post play.

Ray was criticized for his streakiness and defense.

Paul, while being perhaps the most well-rounded, was probably the least criticized on here from what I've seen.

My point is this - Yeah Rondo had deficiencies in his game. It seems that for his deficiencies, he always seemed to make up for it in other areas, like being a superb passer, floor general, defender (in his prime, and while team was contending).

At times, those deficiencies showed themselves. But TBH all I remember from Rajon Rondo is the good times.

For the most part, though - I believe Doc Rivers did a GREAT job managing those deficiencies - not only in Rondo, but in KG, Ray and our other players. Doc Rivers truly maximized this squad.

Glenn "Doc" Rivers will one day be a HOF Coach.

But IMO the singular thing that kept us from winning more banners was this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVu41PubfZ4

"NOT" whether or not Rajon Rondo could hit the broad side of a barn at the free throw line.

[jambr380]

Any player that continuously shoots in the 50-60% range on their free throws isn't playing their heart out, IMO.  They are not working on a glaring weakness in their game.  I've always had the same issue with Antoine Walker apologists.  If he loved playing for the Celtics so much, why did he let his game continue to deteriorate?

Antoine averaged 20.1PPG, 7.2RPG, 4.8APG, and 1.5SPG and had a semi-successful playoff run in his last season before getting traded to Dallas. I wouldn't exactly call that "deteriorating." If you mean the 24 games he played when he returned back for the 04-05 season, he actually had set his career high in field goal percentage and put 16.3/8.3 in fewer MPG than he was receiving in previous years.

And, yes, I am totally an Antoine apologist.

I would also welcome back Rondo.

[Surferdad]

I saddened by the lack of respect for Rondo.

I don't think respect is something you earn and then put it up on the wall like a trophy, never to be taken away.  You have to continue to maintain your credibility and integrity, no matter who your are.

I loved Rondo when he was with the Celtics and he helped us get a banner.  He is a champion.

BUT, what he did to his teammates in Dallas is inexcusable.  JMO.

You mean, "what Cuban, Carlylse AND Rondo did to each other."

It takes two (or three) to tango.

DAL is a mess right now. If they could've gotten the Rondo thing to work, I'm guessing that DeAndre would've had a better shot at staying.

IMO, DAL deserves everything that's happening to them, now.

Look, I admit I don't know the details.  But I know two things that are public information:
1) Rondo quit on his team during the playoffs. What could Cuban and Carlisle possibly have said to him to cause that kind of response?  His teammates apparently had nothing to do with it yet they suffered.
2) Right after the incident, Carlisle said publicly that Rondo would never play for the team again, without explaining why. It must have been REAL BAD for him to say that, in public.

I am no Cuban fan, that's for sure but Rondo already had a nice resume locker room stuff.  The point is, no thanks to a Rondo return.

The bolded part is quite important.

Additionally, I've never said on here that Rondo was a saint.

With that being said, I'm in Rondo's corner to the fact that SOMETHING happened to have that meltdown. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Ideally, whatever Carlysle said to him for that to happen, Rondo would've took it in stride. I accept this.

But why in tarnation would you bring a PG of his caliber to DAL and not let him do his job?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I chuckled to myself as DeAndre left DAL.

Karma is quite a thing.

So you are saying Rondo was justified in quitting on his teammates because of the way Carlisle used him?  That is what I get from your reply.  Carlisle is widely recognized as one of the top 5 current coaches in the league.

[GreenFaith1819]

I saddened by the lack of respect for Rondo.

I don't think respect is something you earn and then put it up on the wall like a trophy, never to be taken away.  You have to continue to maintain your credibility and integrity, no matter who your are.

I loved Rondo when he was with the Celtics and he helped us get a banner.  He is a champion.

BUT, what he did to his teammates in Dallas is inexcusable.  JMO.

You mean, "what Cuban, Carlylse AND Rondo did to each other."

It takes two (or three) to tango.

DAL is a mess right now. If they could've gotten the Rondo thing to work, I'm guessing that DeAndre would've had a better shot at staying.

IMO, DAL deserves everything that's happening to them, now.

Look, I admit I don't know the details.  But I know two things that are public information:
1) Rondo quit on his team during the playoffs. What could Cuban and Carlisle possibly have said to him to cause that kind of response?  His teammates apparently had nothing to do with it yet they suffered.
2) Right after the incident, Carlisle said publicly that Rondo would never play for the team again, without explaining why. It must have been REAL BAD for him to say that, in public.

I am no Cuban fan, that's for sure but Rondo already had a nice resume locker room stuff.  The point is, no thanks to a Rondo return.

The bolded part is quite important.

Additionally, I've never said on here that Rondo was a saint.

With that being said, I'm in Rondo's corner to the fact that SOMETHING happened to have that meltdown. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Ideally, whatever Carlysle said to him for that to happen, Rondo would've took it in stride. I accept this.

But why in tarnation would you bring a PG of his caliber to DAL and not let him do his job?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I chuckled to myself as DeAndre left DAL.

Karma is quite a thing.

So you are saying Rondo was justified in quitting on his teammates because of the way Carlisle used him?  That is what I get from your reply.  Carlisle is widely recognized as one of the top 5 current coaches in the league.

Top 5 coach? In the NBA?

Sure he gets some love from me and fans here due to his BOS ties, but top 5 coach?

Let's be real. Dirk got hot and carried DAL to the championship in 2011. Tyson dipped into the fountain of youth and defended and rebounded well. Additionally, LeBron James and Co could not pull off what WE did in 2007-08 - during their first year together.

Once LeBron got himself going he (and MIA) ran roughshod over DAL and the league the next few years.

Again - as I posted AND as YOU stated - we don't know all the details as to what happened.

[GreenFaith1819]

I'll reiterate to my fellow C's fans.

I'll always love Rajon Rondo and what he did in BOS. He followed a line for great Celtics PGs -

Cousy. Tiny. DJ. KC Jones. JoJo White. Rondo.

Rajon Rondo left it on the floor - IN BOS. He played perhaps his best years - IN BOS. He got injured - IN BOS. Several times.

He deserves better than the ridiculous scrutiny he gets on here. Quote me on that.

I'm so sorry that Hemingway started this thread. Must be slow time in BOS right now. Shocked that there aren't 50 Brady threads on here.

[Hemingway]

Any player that continuously shoots in the 50-60% range on their free throws isn't playing their heart out, IMO.  They are not working on a glaring weakness in their game.  I've always had the same issue with Antoine Walker apologists.  If he loved playing for the Celtics so much, why did he let his game continue to deteriorate?

How are these things related? hint: they are not.

[jayk009]

I loved Rondo when he was in Boston but once he got traded away the beer goggle effect went away and realized just how glaring his weaknesses are. I would rather see Smart and Isaiah Thomas do their things then see Rondo come back.

Rondo got lazy and his once elite D was becoming way overrated, and his regressing offense makes him a severely limited player. I remember when he would pass up easy scoring chances just to pad his assist numbers..he's the most selfish un-selfish players I've ever seen. If he actually defended properly and stopped padding his assist numbers and kept trying to improve offensively he would be great..but somewhere along the way he lost perspective..I used to be the biggest Rondo supporter but now I don't really care about him...

[Hemingway]

I never understood how someone could stat pad with assists. Isn't the job of the point guard to make it as easy for his teammates to score? "stat padding" is just anti rondo nonsense that gets repeated over and over on these boards.

Really how can anyone stat pad in the NBA? I guess missing a shot to get a rebound or demanding to go back in a game that is already essentially over. I remember Rondo doing this one time back when he had that streak of 10+ assist games going. 1 times, years ago when we were good and Doc put him back in the game to do it and the whole team was cheering him on. But now people act like he was doing it all the time or that is was a bad thing.

Don't get me wrong, I think Rondo was very aware of his assist numbers and one of his main goals was to get as many assists as possible. But how on earth is this a bad thing? It's only a bad thing to people who already made up their mind they hate Rondo and go looking for reasons to justify their position. 

Passing up shots is actually a good thing for a point guard. The PG should be trying to get his teammates going. Even passing on a 2 on 0 breakaway is a good thing if its the PG passing up the ball. maybe the other guy really needed that layup to build his confidence and start hitting shots.

[Hemingway]

I guess if LBJ scores 30 points in a game he is just padding his scoring numbers right?

[jayk009]

https://youtu.be/r4fuSieh2ro

I'll.just leave this here...

[Celtics4ever]

People tend to hate or look down upon what they do not do well.   It is a coping mechanism that many have .

[jambr380]

https://youtu.be/r4fuSieh2ro

I'll.just leave this here...

But that was Hemingway's entire point. If Rondo had just taken it all the way, he would have been able to add two points to his box score. Instead, Ray Allen was able to score and Rondo got the assist. Who knows, Allen may have been having a difficult game and that is exactly what he needed.

Either way, passing up a shot for another guy to get a lay-up is not 'selfish'. Now, if you provide some videos of Rondo passing up clearly open lay-ups for other guys to take worse shots, you may have a point.

[Rosco917]

I never understood how someone could stat pad with assists. Isn't the job of the point guard to make it as easy for his teammates to score? "stat padding" is just anti rondo nonsense that gets repeated over and over on these boards.

Really how can anyone stat pad in the NBA? I guess missing a shot to get a rebound or demanding to go back in a game that is already essentially over. I remember Rondo doing this one time back when he had that streak of 10+ assist games going. 1 times, years ago when we were good and Doc put him back in the game to do it and the whole team was cheering him on. But now people act like he was doing it all the time or that is was a bad thing.

Don't get me wrong, I think Rondo was very aware of his assist numbers and one of his main goals was to get as many assists as possible. But how on earth is this a bad thing? It's only a bad thing to people who already made up their mind they hate Rondo and go looking for reasons to justify their position. 

Passing up shots is actually a good thing for a point guard. The PG should be trying to get his teammates going. Even passing on a 2 on 0 breakaway is a good thing if its the PG passing up the ball. maybe the other guy really needed that layup to build his confidence and start hitting shots.

You pad your assists by not allowing the ball to be moved around in the half court, once it's in your hands. If your an advocate of ball movement, this the kiss of death. Rather than allow someone else to assist in a basket, Rondo would rather pound the ball, watch players desperately attempting to get open, waisting energy, so he could be the deliverer of the assist, because he was incapable of scoring the ball. When he began shooting free throws at 30% he then stopped going to the basket. He then becomes a player that is easily defended against. (we won't talk about the comment about not playing defense)   

Granted, a lack of targets was a factor on the 2014 Celtics. Not so in Dallas, that was a talent rich atmosphere. When the coach wanted a different approach from Rondo, he became defensive, arrogant and finally quit on his team mates. Not a pretty picture.

In Sacramento he gets another chance to re-estabilish himself. If he, George Karl, and Cousins can get on the same page, it may actually work. I'm not gonna bet my house on it.

[jayk009]

Meh..I'm not going to go digging for more youtube videos..the one I posted is enough...If that doesn't show he's assist padding then nothing else will.

Don't tell me that him passing up a guaranteed wide open layup is a good play..where there's a chance that a defender could have caught up to Rondo or Allen in that play...it's not an assist in the flow of the offense..he wanted an assist more then 2 points for his box score.he passed up literally the highest % scoring opportunity in the game and risked(although a small risk but still a risk) a turnover..that is the definition of trying to pad his assist number.

I was a huge rondo fan and still appreciate everything he did but I'm not a homer and am willing to acknowledge his negative attributes too.

[Hemingway]

I never understood how someone could stat pad with assists. Isn't the job of the point guard to make it as easy for his teammates to score? "stat padding" is just anti rondo nonsense that gets repeated over and over on these boards.

Really how can anyone stat pad in the NBA? I guess missing a shot to get a rebound or demanding to go back in a game that is already essentially over. I remember Rondo doing this one time back when he had that streak of 10+ assist games going. 1 times, years ago when we were good and Doc put him back in the game to do it and the whole team was cheering him on. But now people act like he was doing it all the time or that is was a bad thing.

Don't get me wrong, I think Rondo was very aware of his assist numbers and one of his main goals was to get as many assists as possible. But how on earth is this a bad thing? It's only a bad thing to people who already made up their mind they hate Rondo and go looking for reasons to justify their position. 

Passing up shots is actually a good thing for a point guard. The PG should be trying to get his teammates going. Even passing on a 2 on 0 breakaway is a good thing if its the PG passing up the ball. maybe the other guy really needed that layup to build his confidence and start hitting shots.

You pad your assists by not allowing the ball to be moved around in the half court, once it's in your hands. If your an advocate of ball movement, this the kiss of death. Rather than allow someone else to assist in a basket, Rondo would rather pound the ball, watch players desperately attempting to get open, waisting energy, so he could be the deliverer of the assist, because he was incapable of scoring the ball. When he began shooting free throws at 30% he then stopped going to the basket. He then becomes a player that is easily defended against. (we won't talk about the comment about not playing defense)   

Granted, a lack of targets was a factor on the 2014 Celtics. Not so in Dallas, that was a talent rich atmosphere. When the coach wanted a different approach from Rondo, he became defensive, arrogant and finally quit on his team mates. Not a pretty picture.

In Sacramento he gets another chance to re-estabilish himself. If he, George Karl, and Cousins can get on the same page, it may actually work. I'm not gonna bet my house on it.

Why don't you read what you type before you hit the "post" button. Do you really think that Rondo was physically unable to score? Or do you just hate Rondo because he didn't want to resign here?

When I said we have the worst fans, you are the kind of person I was referring to.