Markieff Morris Wants Out

[crimson_stallion]

The guy was inappropriate with their mother and knew them as kids so he might have tried to rip them off when they went pro. It's not some random old guy. It's not like they killed him or anything, he'll be alright. I think it overblown, a lot of us would have beat the guy up too

What on earth kind of justification is that?!

A man you know says he wants to date your mother, so that makes it OK for you to:

1) Form a group of 5 men and seek him out
2) Distract the man while another of your gang sneaks up behind him and knocks him down
3) Have four guys grab him while he's down and hold him, defenseless, while you beat him to a pulp and leave him hospitalised

That is the absolute definition of cowardly and despicable behavior and there is no way anybody can even TRY to argue that it's justifiable.

Anybody who handles that kind of situation in that the manner I just described is a menace to society, a disgrace to mankind.  Such kids (I say kids, because that's not how a man behaves) absolutely deserve to be punished very seriously for their crimes. 

It's one think to have a fair 1-on-1 fist fight with a man to settle your differences.  It's an entirely different thing to ambush a guy and give him a 5-on-1 beating while he's on the floor defenseless.

Be careful you might fall of your high horse

Yeah, because saying that the above scenario is criminal / wrong is the same as being on a "high horse". 

Right.

Because orchestrating a premeditated 5-on-1 ambush beating on a 60 year old man is completely legal, ethical and honorable.

None of us were there. And they weren't trying to be tough or fight a fair fight, they were trying to hurt/punish the guy. Like I said none of us were there, I think judging him and his brother is unfair. People get so emotional about people they don't know, I just don't understand what the point is. People gotta chill

You aren't really doing much here to strengthen your argument as to why this situation wasn't completely messed up. 

The argument you are trying to make is like having a scenario where a man beats his wife and gives her a broken nose and a black eye...and then defending that with "well we don't know the scenario, maybe she told him she was going to sleep with his best friend". 

The fact of the matter is there is no scenario where beating a defenseless person is justifiable, just like there is no scenario where beating your wife is justifiable.

The closest you can come to justifying that is to say that it's a mental illness and out of your control, and that argument loses all weight when it is a premeditated attack from a gang of people.

Also the whole "mental illness" argument doesn't hold any weight with me anyway.   The way I see it if you have a mental illness that leads to you breaking into uncontrollable fits of rage / violence then you are a danger and should be locked up to protect society - regardless of whether it's within your control or not. But then that's another argument for another day...

Either way I honestly find it extremely disturbing and completely unfathomable that somebody could defend an act like this and even try to argue that it's acceptable or tolerable.

Even more disturbing is the comments suggesting that if we don't know the person or weren't there, we shouldn't care.  That's like saying we shouldn't care about the mass atrocities that are committed all over the world, or that we shouldn't care about the people starving in other countries, simply because we don't know the people and we aren't there.

You don't need to know a person to feel compassion.  An act doesn't need to be personal to be criminal.   

If we all felt that way then police would say "I'm not locking up that murderer - i don't know the person he killed.  Why should I care.  Maybe the guy provoked him".

Anyway this is going pretty strongly off topic here so I'm gonna back off this subject and return to the "basketball" side of the debate - and even if you disregard all of the above I still believe (for basketball reasons) acquiring Morris is of no benefit to us given the current makeup of our roster and goals of our team.

[Beat LA]

I've never looked at their stats or anything else related to them, aside from a story where they were both suspended for doing something at a nightclub last year

So, you know nothing about them aside from a vague impression you've got of the position you think they play, yet you're registering an opinion nonetheless.

Got it.   

No, I remember the scouting reports coming out of college and the questions that were raised about what position(s) they would play, in addition to their serious, and recent, off court antics that ultimately resulted in a suspension, iirc, but nice try (sarcasm) .

What's so great about them?  Enlighten me .

[Beat LA]

Will it keep Markieff off the court?  Because Sully's issues have tended to keep him off the court.

So, according to you, the central issue here isn't that he beat someone up, it's that the only thing that matters is which off court issue is more likely to keep either of these guys off the court?

Got it .

[Beat LA]

I like how everyone is glossing over the part where he and his brother beat up an older man at a basketball game as part of a group of 5 that attacked the same guy multiple times until he was unconscious

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2015/05/07/suns-morris-twins-arraigned-assault-charges-markieff-marcus/70943508/

We want this dude? This is less of an issue than Sully's weight?

Thank you, TP.

[Beat LA]

The guy was inappropriate with their mother and knew them as kids so he might have tried to rip them off when they went pro. It's not some random old guy. It's not like they killed him or anything, he'll be alright. I think it overblown, a lot of us would have beat the guy up too

What on earth kind of justification is that?!

A man you know says he wants to date your mother, so that makes it OK for you to:

1) Form a group of 5 men and seek him out
2) Distract the man while another of your gang sneaks up behind him and knocks him down
3) Have four guys grab him while he's down and hold him, defenseless, while you beat him to a pulp and leave him hospitalised

That is the absolute definition of cowardly and despicable behavior and there is no way anybody can even TRY to argue that it's justifiable.

Anybody who handles that kind of situation in that the manner I just described is a menace to society, a disgrace to mankind.  Such kids (I say kids, because that's not how a man behaves) absolutely deserve to be punished very seriously for their crimes. 

It's one think to have a fair 1-on-1 fist fight with a man to settle your differences.  It's an entirely different thing to ambush a guy and give him a 5-on-1 beating while he's on the floor defenseless.

Be careful you might fall of your high horse

Yeah, because saying that the above scenario is criminal / wrong is the same as being on a "high horse". 

Right.

Because orchestrating a premeditated 5-on-1 ambush beating on a 60 year old man is completely legal, ethical and honorable.

None of us were there. And they weren't trying to be tough or fight a fair fight, they were trying to hurt/punish the guy. Like I said none of us were there, I think judging him and his brother is unfair. People get so emotional about people they don't know, I just don't understand what the point is. People gotta chill

fj, to be honest, i am at a loss as to why you would wish us all to not be concerned over what may have been a heinous and despicable act. yes, we may not know the details, but as portrayed it is a horrific act of violence. we should express disgust with at least that scenario.

and to object to potential violence against other human beings is hardly being on a high horse.

Well said, TP.

[PhoSita]

Anyway, I do agree that it'd be nice to have a cost controlled contract over Sully, but that's only because I am scared Sully won't keep the weight off after he signs his new contract. I'm not the biggest fan of Sullinger, but he is a more talented player than Morris. He's also a much better rebounder. The only issue with him is his conditioning and willpower to stay in shape, and that may be reason enough for me to sell low and pick up a guy like Morris. Maybe.

Yeah, that's mostly where I'm at.  I do think Markieff is probably a better fit due to his mobility and versatility.  Still, I'd agree that the ideal version of Sullinger is better than the ideal version of Markieff Morris. 

I'm just not very confident we'll ever see that ideal version of Sullinger.  I'm not even sure how often we'll see the current, non-ideal version of Sullinger capable of actually playing, let alone playing 30+ minutes.

Markieff is the better bet, and he's a better deal over the next four years.  He's only available at all because of his off-court questions.  So let's take advantage.

[Forza Juventus]

Jeez.... Chill out, stop making this a personal attack on me. They jumped a guy that creeped on his mom, a guy that possibly is sketchy and tried to take advantage of them when they went pro. All I said was it was overblown. Stop with the dramatic talk saying I'm disturbing and stuff. When people are making this guy into a scumbag when he's protecting his family. He made a mistake, he did a bad thing, get over it. You even compared it to defending someone that beats their wife, gtf0 that's not what I said at all

[tarheelsxxiii]

The guy was inappropriate with their mother and knew them as kids so he might have tried to rip them off when they went pro. It's not some random old guy. It's not like they killed him or anything, he'll be alright. I think it overblown, a lot of us would have beat the guy up too

What on earth kind of justification is that?!

A man you know says he wants to date your mother, so that makes it OK for you to:

1) Form a group of 5 men and seek him out
2) Distract the man while another of your gang sneaks up behind him and knocks him down
3) Have four guys grab him while he's down and hold him, defenseless, while you beat him to a pulp and leave him hospitalised

That is the absolute definition of cowardly and despicable behavior and there is no way anybody can even TRY to argue that it's justifiable.

Anybody who handles that kind of situation in that the manner I just described is a menace to society, a disgrace to mankind.  Such kids (I say kids, because that's not how a man behaves) absolutely deserve to be punished very seriously for their crimes. 

It's one think to have a fair 1-on-1 fist fight with a man to settle your differences.  It's an entirely different thing to ambush a guy and give him a 5-on-1 beating while he's on the floor defenseless.

Be careful you might fall of your high horse

Yeah, because saying that the above scenario is criminal / wrong is the same as being on a "high horse". 

Right.

Because orchestrating a premeditated 5-on-1 ambush beating on a 60 year old man is completely legal, ethical and honorable.

None of us were there. And they weren't trying to be tough or fight a fair fight, they were trying to hurt/punish the guy. Like I said none of us were there, I think judging him and his brother is unfair. People get so emotional about people they don't know, I just don't understand what the point is. People gotta chill

You aren't really doing much here to strengthen your argument as to why this situation wasn't completely messed up. 

The argument you are trying to make is like having a scenario where a man beats his wife and gives her a broken nose and a black eye...and then defending that with "well we don't know the scenario, maybe she told him she was going to sleep with his best friend". 

The fact of the matter is there is no scenario where beating a defenseless person is justifiable, just like there is no scenario where beating your wife is justifiable.

The closest you can come to justifying that is to say that it's a mental illness and out of your control, and that argument loses all weight when it is a premeditated attack from a gang of people.

Also the whole "mental illness" argument doesn't hold any weight with me anyway.   The way I see it if you have a mental illness that leads to you breaking into uncontrollable fits of rage / violence then you are a danger and should be locked up to protect society - regardless of whether it's within your control or not. But then that's another argument for another day...

Either way I honestly find it extremely disturbing and completely unfathomable that somebody could defend an act like this and even try to argue that it's acceptable or tolerable.

Even more disturbing is the comments suggesting that if we don't know the person or weren't there, we shouldn't care.  That's like saying we shouldn't care about the mass atrocities that are committed all over the world, or that we shouldn't care about the people starving in other countries, simply because we don't know the people and we aren't there.

You don't need to know a person to feel compassion.  An act doesn't need to be personal to be criminal.   

If we all felt that way then police would say "I'm not locking up that murderer - i don't know the person he killed.  Why should I care.  Maybe the guy provoked him".

Anyway this is going pretty strongly off topic here so I'm gonna back off this subject and return to the "basketball" side of the debate - and even if you disregard all of the above I still believe (for basketball reasons) acquiring Morris is of no benefit to us given the current makeup of our roster and goals of our team.

You're likening their situation to "beat[ing one's] wife and [giving her] a broken nose and a black eye," yet you have no idea of the actual circumstances, evidence against, etc. If you do, I stand corrected... otherwise, that's crazy to me.

Re: mental illness, are you honestly suggesting someone is "mentally ill" because of a violent action, reported in the media, that you have no details of? Beating someone up, in and of itself, does not necessarily qualify as an "uncontrollable fit of rage."

This has nothing to do with compassion. Do you know if his father is alive? His status with his mother? There are so many details to be considered here that making a snap judgement is very reckless. From what I read, you do not seem to want to go down this route... but if that is the case, it would've been more effective to avoid immediate speculation...

[Big333223]

Lots of conjecture and assumptions and making-stuff-up going on in this thread.

[ahonui06]

This thread is turning into a philosophical and legal debate haha.

[number_n9ne]

I'd trade for him, but it would have to be a package around Turner and Sully, no picks. I think the assault charges are being blown out of proportion. Let's not forget Sully was sitting in a court room a year or so back. And if he's upset with the Suns for trading his brother, he has the right to be. He took less money on a handshake agreement so that he could play with his brother. And then the Suns used his brother to clear cap space for Aldridge, who they didn't even get. All for nothing in his eyes. If anything we have a larger, cost controlled contract for a young productive player that we can flip later.

[truthhurts34]

Let's not conveniently disregard sullingers domestic violence dispute last year with his girlfriend.

If we are going to bring up Morris' case let's put everything on the table to make it fair.


At the end of the day, both players bring immense baggage. As I've said before, if I'm picking between the two it really comes down to durability. On top of that, Morris' contract is really the icing on the cake.

Even if sullinger magically gets in real shape, his back issues long term are still a red flag. Morris has a great contract, I really don't see how you could pick sullinger over morris after taking everything into consideration.

[celticsclay]

Let's not conveniently disregard sullingers domestic violence dispute last year with his girlfriend.

If we are going to bring up Morris' case let's put everything on the table to make it fair.


At the end of the day, both players bring immense baggage. As I've said before, if I'm picking between the two it really comes down to durability. On top of that, Morris' contract is really the icing on the cake.

Even if sullinger magically gets in real shape, his back issues long term are still a red flag. Morris has a great contract, I really don't see how you could pick sullinger over morris after taking everything into consideration.

Their legal situations are not at all similar. Morris is currently facing pending charges and jail time. Sullinger obviously is not.

[hwangjini_1]

Let's not conveniently disregard sullingers domestic violence dispute last year with his girlfriend.

If we are going to bring up Morris' case let's put everything on the table to make it fair.


At the end of the day, both players bring immense baggage. As I've said before, if I'm picking between the two it really comes down to durability. On top of that, Morris' contract is really the icing on the cake.

Even if sullinger magically gets in real shape, his back issues long term are still a red flag. Morris has a great contract, I really don't see how you could pick sullinger over morris after taking everything into consideration.

assuming we disapprove of each action, which we should, you seem to be saying that what sully did is comparable/similar/equivalent to the act supposedly committed by morris. if so, i disagree. i can see a world of difference between two actions, even when both are wrong.

[Smartacus]

You know for all of the people claiming he's a monster because him and a large group attacked a defenseless man, I hope you all have the same criticisms for Kevin Garnett.

KG moved to Chicago from South Carolina in his last year of high school because he was facing lynching (Legally defined in SC as attacking a person with more than 2 people) charges for participating in a group that beat another kid to a pulp.

Now the Morris' clearly orchestrated this case, and KG was only proven to be at most a participant but it's a lot more common a tactic for dishing out "justice" than some here are giving it credit for.