Author Topic: Markieff Morris Wants Out  (Read 38711 times)

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Re: Markieff Morris Wants Out
« Reply #90 on: August 12, 2015, 09:17:12 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Secondly, does it not bother you at all that was kicking a man on the ground until he was unconscious with 4 other people? That is not even a little troubling? You sound, not sure how to phrase this on celtics blog,  like a something, trying to compare the two.

I'm aware of what aggravated assault is.  It sounds to me like I probably wouldn't like to be friends with Markieff.

My question, though, is will it keep him off the court?  I'm rather skeptical that it will.  This sort of thing doesn't tend to keep professional athletes from playing.

I'll say again, if Brad Stevens is half the coach we make  him out to be, integrating one guy who isn't a role model shouldn't be a problem for the team's "culture."
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Re: Markieff Morris Wants Out
« Reply #91 on: August 12, 2015, 09:32:31 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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We traded Marcus Thornton and a Cleveland 1st round pick for Isaiah. Why would we offer more to Phoenix for Markief? Turner, Jones and a pick or 2 is fair. Markief demanded a trade. Phoenix screwed up. We should lowball them

Evan Turner and Jared Sullinger IS a low-ball offer.

Markieff is cost-controlled for even longer than IT, and he's a proven starter, whereas IT is a sixth man.


Remember that even if Sullinger plays well this year and stays healthy -- not a small "if" -- the Celts will probably have to pay him WAY more than the $8 million per year that Markieff makes for the next 4 seasons.

i'm not the biggest fan of Sully, but I'm not the biggest fan of either of the Morris twins either.

Honestly I feel that Sully is a better player than right now than either of the twins, and I feel he has higher upside too.

Ultimately I think Sully has the Potential to be an All-Star (I have serious question marks as to whether he'll ever get there, but I think the potential is there) but I don't see that with Markieff.  I see him being a good starter, and that's about it.

Similar deal with Olynyk, who I feel has at least as much upside as Morris.

Morris is an undersized PF (not physically, but in terms of play style) who doesn't rebound the ball, and is only a moderate upgrade over Sully as a three point shooter. 

Plus he seems to have even more mental/emotional question marks than Sully, and that's saying a lot...

We have a team full of Power Forwards, and I feel every one of those Power Forwards (bar Mickey) is better than Morris.

i don't think $8M a year is really that huge a bargain.  At this year's cap it's fair game, at next years cap I would consider it "cap friendly".  I'm not a fan of payning Sully $15M but to be honest I'd probably rather do that than to take Morris (another stretch four who doesn't rebound) for $8M.

Basically I see Morris as a Amir Johnson without the heart/character/toughness.   

Re: Markieff Morris Wants Out
« Reply #92 on: August 12, 2015, 09:39:57 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Also I'm sorry, but i don't care how talented a player is - if I'm a GM or a Coach I don't want a person with that character on my team.

By giving that guy a contact (or accepting his contact on your payroll) you are basically sending a message to the world that you are basically advocating violence and assaut by saying "I don't care if you're a violent thug who gang bashes old men, as long as you can play I'll have you on my team". 

i didn't advocate all the stuff going around about Sully and the domestic violence case - neither did the Celtics, hence why they punished him for it.  What the Morris brothers did (based on the information out there) seems to have been far, far worse.

Re: Markieff Morris Wants Out
« Reply #93 on: August 12, 2015, 09:53:07 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

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7 pages in and no one has asked what the old guy did to Markieff and co.?
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Re: Markieff Morris Wants Out
« Reply #94 on: August 12, 2015, 10:07:59 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Also I'm sorry, but i don't care how talented a player is - if I'm a GM or a Coach I don't want a person with that character on my team.

By giving that guy a contact (or accepting his contact on your payroll) you are basically sending a message to the world that you are basically advocating violence and assaut by saying "I don't care if you're a violent thug who gang bashes old men, as long as you can play I'll have you on my team". 

i didn't advocate all the stuff going around about Sully and the domestic violence case - neither did the Celtics, hence why they punished him for it.  What the Morris brothers did (based on the information out there) seems to have been far, far worse.
While I'm in the camp of passing on him for character reasons, I think it's going too far to say that any team that takes him on is advocating violence. It's also not fair to Morris to think that this wasn't an isolated incident or something he wants to learn from and change his behavior.

That said, it worries me that he's had these behavioral issues both on and off the court and he's just not enough of an upgarde on what we already have to take the risk.
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Re: Markieff Morris Wants Out
« Reply #95 on: August 12, 2015, 10:09:26 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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While I'm in the camp of passing on him for character reasons, I think it's going too far to say that any team that takes him on is advocating violence. It's also not fair to Morris to think that this wasn't an isolated incident or something he wants to learn from and change his behavior.

That said, it worries me that he's had these behavioral issues both on and off the court and he's just not enough of an upgarde on what we already have to take the risk.

Of course everybody will have their own view on the subject of criminal punishments, but I'm personally not one of those who believes everybody deserves a second chance - I think it depends on the nature of the crime you commit, and some things just aren't forgivable.

I don't necessarily feel this crime is unforgivable (because I don't know the full nature of the scenario, nor exactly how much damage they did to the man and how permanent that damage is) but even if I DID conclude that he deserved a second chance, I wouldn't give him a free ticket.  He deserves to be put in prison for his crimes and to serve a suitable sentence, just like any other non-celebrity out there would if they committed the same crime.

I absolutely hate seeing situations where celebrities (or high profile people) are given special treatment as a result of who they are - if you kill a man (for arguments sake) then the fact that you're famous and wealthy doesn't make that person any less dead.  Of course that's an exaggeration of the current situation, but the principle remains - if you commit a crime, you deserve to face justice...no matter who you are. 

If he wants a second chance, let him get that after X years of prison time.

Also I really do believe that taking on a guy like this reflects heavily on your team.  I think people need to realise that the NBA is a business, and being an NBA player is a job.  You know how hard it is to get a job out there if you have a criminal record for aggravated assault after committing this type of crime?  It's not easy.  You know why?  Because no company wants somebody like that on their payroll, and nobody wants a name like that associated with their organisation.

Whether it's for ethical reasons (you feel strongly against violence, and so you don't want them) or for business reasons (impact on the reputation of your company) - either way you don't want it.

I don't see why a professional sports team any different.  If anything you are even more in the spotlight (and hence in a position for public scrutiny) then most other organisations.

I might be old school, but I feel pretty strongly about things like this - criminals like this are a danger to society and need to be behind bars so they don't hurt somebody else.  The system is in place to protect the people from monsters like this.   
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 10:20:15 PM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Markieff Morris Wants Out
« Reply #96 on: August 12, 2015, 10:25:12 PM »

Offline Forza Juventus

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The guy was inappropriate with their mother and knew them as kids so he might have tried to rip them off when they went pro. It's not some random old guy. It's not like they killed him or anything, he'll be alright. I think it overblown, a lot of us would have beat the guy up too
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Re: Markieff Morris Wants Out
« Reply #97 on: August 12, 2015, 10:42:03 PM »

Offline DarkAzcura

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We traded Marcus Thornton and a Cleveland 1st round pick for Isaiah. Why would we offer more to Phoenix for Markief? Turner, Jones and a pick or 2 is fair. Markief demanded a trade. Phoenix screwed up. We should lowball them

Evan Turner and Jared Sullinger IS a low-ball offer.

Markieff is cost-controlled for even longer than IT, and he's a proven starter, whereas IT is a sixth man.


Remember that even if Sullinger plays well this year and stays healthy -- not a small "if" -- the Celts will probably have to pay him WAY more than the $8 million per year that Markieff makes for the next 4 seasons.

The bolded doesn't really matter, though. Isaiah Thomas is a far more impactful player than Morris is regardless of whatever his labeled role is. IT also didn't demand a trade and didn't have sunk trade value because of it. The second a player demands a trade, their trade value falls apart expect for in special circumstances (Kevin Love, Lebron going back to Cleveland perfect storm). Can't imagine a role player's trade value will be that high after demanding a trade. Talent for talent, Sullinger is too much to give up in a trade, but there are other circumstances you have to think about which you highlighted at the end.

Anyway, I do agree that it'd be nice to have a cost controlled contract over Sully, but that's only because I am scared Sully won't keep the weight off after he signs his new contract. I'm not the biggest fan of Sullinger, but he is a more talented player than Morris. He's also a much better rebounder. The only issue with him is his conditioning and willpower to stay in shape, and that may be reason enough for me to sell low and pick up a guy like Morris. Maybe.

Re: Markieff Morris Wants Out
« Reply #98 on: August 12, 2015, 11:23:28 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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The guy was inappropriate with their mother and knew them as kids so he might have tried to rip them off when they went pro. It's not some random old guy. It's not like they killed him or anything, he'll be alright. I think it overblown, a lot of us would have beat the guy up too

What on earth kind of justification is that?!

A man you know says he wants to date your mother, so that makes it OK for you to:

1) Form a group of 5 men and seek him out
2) Distract the man while another of your gang sneaks up behind him and knocks him down
3) Have four guys grab him while he's down and hold him, defenseless, while you beat him to a pulp and leave him hospitalised

That is the absolute definition of cowardly and despicable behavior and there is no way anybody can even TRY to argue that it's justifiable.

Anybody who handles that kind of situation in that the manner I just described is a menace to society, a disgrace to mankind.  Such kids (I say kids, because that's not how a man behaves) absolutely deserve to be punished very seriously for their crimes. 

It's one think to have a fair 1-on-1 fist fight with a man to settle your differences.  It's an entirely different thing to ambush a guy and give him a 5-on-1 beating while he's on the floor defenseless.

Re: Markieff Morris Wants Out
« Reply #99 on: August 12, 2015, 11:26:30 PM »

Offline Forza Juventus

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The guy was inappropriate with their mother and knew them as kids so he might have tried to rip them off when they went pro. It's not some random old guy. It's not like they killed him or anything, he'll be alright. I think it overblown, a lot of us would have beat the guy up too

What on earth kind of justification is that?!

A man you know says he wants to date your mother, so that makes it OK for you to:

1) Form a group of 5 men and seek him out
2) Distract the man while another of your gang sneaks up behind him and knocks him down
3) Have four guys grab him while he's down and hold him, defenseless, while you beat him to a pulp and leave him hospitalised

That is the absolute definition of cowardly and despicable behavior and there is no way anybody can even TRY to argue that it's justifiable.

Anybody who handles that kind of situation in that the manner I just described is a menace to society, a disgrace to mankind.  Such kids (I say kids, because that's not how a man behaves) absolutely deserve to be punished very seriously for their crimes. 

It's one think to have a fair 1-on-1 fist fight with a man to settle your differences.  It's an entirely different thing to ambush a guy and give him a 5-on-1 beating while he's on the floor defenseless.

Be careful you might fall of your high horse
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Re: Markieff Morris Wants Out
« Reply #100 on: August 12, 2015, 11:29:13 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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The bolded doesn't really matter, though. Isaiah Thomas is a far more impactful player than Morris is regardless of whatever his labeled role is. IT also didn't demand a trade and didn't have sunk trade value because of it. The second a player demands a trade, their trade value falls apart expect for in special circumstances (Kevin Love, Lebron going back to Cleveland perfect storm). Can't imagine a role player's trade value will be that high after demanding a trade. Talent for talent, Sullinger is too much to give up in a trade, but there are other circumstances you have to think about which you highlighted at the end.

This.

Isaiah Thomas is a far bigger impact player than either of the Morris twins. Thomas is an ELITE scorer - his per minute scoring numbers and scoring inefficiencies put him up there as one of the top 5-10 scorers in the entire NBA.

He might have other limitations to his game, but the thing he does well (scoring) he does very, very well.  Well enough to allow him to be an absolute game changer, especially come playoff time. 

Morris give us nothing really above any other player we currently have at the PF spot.  He's average-to-slightly-above-average pretty much across the board. I'd rather trade Sully for a 1st round pick and give those extra minutes to Lee/Johnson/Mickey/Olynyk/Zeller rather than make a trade to bring in an average starter at a position where we are already far too over-saturated.

Re: Markieff Morris Wants Out
« Reply #101 on: August 12, 2015, 11:33:10 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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The guy was inappropriate with their mother and knew them as kids so he might have tried to rip them off when they went pro. It's not some random old guy. It's not like they killed him or anything, he'll be alright. I think it overblown, a lot of us would have beat the guy up too

What on earth kind of justification is that?!

A man you know says he wants to date your mother, so that makes it OK for you to:

1) Form a group of 5 men and seek him out
2) Distract the man while another of your gang sneaks up behind him and knocks him down
3) Have four guys grab him while he's down and hold him, defenseless, while you beat him to a pulp and leave him hospitalised

That is the absolute definition of cowardly and despicable behavior and there is no way anybody can even TRY to argue that it's justifiable.

Anybody who handles that kind of situation in that the manner I just described is a menace to society, a disgrace to mankind.  Such kids (I say kids, because that's not how a man behaves) absolutely deserve to be punished very seriously for their crimes. 

It's one think to have a fair 1-on-1 fist fight with a man to settle your differences.  It's an entirely different thing to ambush a guy and give him a 5-on-1 beating while he's on the floor defenseless.

Be careful you might fall of your high horse

Yeah, because saying that the above scenario is criminal / wrong is the same as being on a "high horse". 

Right.

Because orchestrating a premeditated 5-on-1 ambush beating on a 60 year old man is completely legal, ethical and honorable. 

Re: Markieff Morris Wants Out
« Reply #102 on: August 12, 2015, 11:37:43 PM »

Offline Forza Juventus

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The guy was inappropriate with their mother and knew them as kids so he might have tried to rip them off when they went pro. It's not some random old guy. It's not like they killed him or anything, he'll be alright. I think it overblown, a lot of us would have beat the guy up too

What on earth kind of justification is that?!

A man you know says he wants to date your mother, so that makes it OK for you to:

1) Form a group of 5 men and seek him out
2) Distract the man while another of your gang sneaks up behind him and knocks him down
3) Have four guys grab him while he's down and hold him, defenseless, while you beat him to a pulp and leave him hospitalised

That is the absolute definition of cowardly and despicable behavior and there is no way anybody can even TRY to argue that it's justifiable.

Anybody who handles that kind of situation in that the manner I just described is a menace to society, a disgrace to mankind.  Such kids (I say kids, because that's not how a man behaves) absolutely deserve to be punished very seriously for their crimes. 

It's one think to have a fair 1-on-1 fist fight with a man to settle your differences.  It's an entirely different thing to ambush a guy and give him a 5-on-1 beating while he's on the floor defenseless.

Be careful you might fall of your high horse

Yeah, because saying that the above scenario is criminal / wrong is the same as being on a "high horse". 

Right.

Because orchestrating a premeditated 5-on-1 ambush beating on a 60 year old man is completely legal, ethical and honorable.

None of us were there. And they weren't trying to be tough or fight a fair fight, they were trying to hurt/punish the guy. Like I said none of us were there, I think judging him and his brother is unfair. People get so emotional about people they don't know, I just don't understand what the point is. People gotta chill
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Re: Markieff Morris Wants Out
« Reply #103 on: August 13, 2015, 12:29:47 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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The guy was inappropriate with their mother and knew them as kids so he might have tried to rip them off when they went pro. It's not some random old guy. It's not like they killed him or anything, he'll be alright. I think it overblown, a lot of us would have beat the guy up too

What on earth kind of justification is that?!

A man you know says he wants to date your mother, so that makes it OK for you to:

1) Form a group of 5 men and seek him out
2) Distract the man while another of your gang sneaks up behind him and knocks him down
3) Have four guys grab him while he's down and hold him, defenseless, while you beat him to a pulp and leave him hospitalised

That is the absolute definition of cowardly and despicable behavior and there is no way anybody can even TRY to argue that it's justifiable.

Anybody who handles that kind of situation in that the manner I just described is a menace to society, a disgrace to mankind.  Such kids (I say kids, because that's not how a man behaves) absolutely deserve to be punished very seriously for their crimes. 

It's one think to have a fair 1-on-1 fist fight with a man to settle your differences.  It's an entirely different thing to ambush a guy and give him a 5-on-1 beating while he's on the floor defenseless.

Be careful you might fall of your high horse

Yeah, because saying that the above scenario is criminal / wrong is the same as being on a "high horse". 

Right.

Because orchestrating a premeditated 5-on-1 ambush beating on a 60 year old man is completely legal, ethical and honorable.

None of us were there. And they weren't trying to be tough or fight a fair fight, they were trying to hurt/punish the guy. Like I said none of us were there, I think judging him and his brother is unfair. People get so emotional about people they don't know, I just don't understand what the point is. People gotta chill
fj, to be honest, i am at a loss as to why you would wish us all to not be concerned over what may have been a heinous and despicable act. yes, we may not know the details, but as portrayed it is a horrific act of violence. we should express disgust with at least that scenario.

and to object to potential violence against other human beings is hardly being on a high horse.
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Re: Markieff Morris Wants Out
« Reply #104 on: August 13, 2015, 12:37:12 AM »

Offline green_bballers13

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I like a Markieff Morris trade only if he is willing to play out this current contract, obv with the hope that you'll have him around if you need to trade for him. Decent salary, Brandon Bass type who hasn't reached his potential. Sully is starting to look more like an NBA big and less like me, so I'm curious to see if he's actually going to take the next step. I would hesitate to include him, but would do so w/ a pick or 2 (2nd rounders most likely) and whatever filler. I would def trade Olynyk. I think the Celtics' flexibility may be their greatest asset, which would be preserved while adding Morris as a decent PF with length on a good salary to couple with Amir Johnson, David Lee, and Tyler Zeller. Definitely an improvement from last year.
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