If Smart is the sticking point

[CoachBo]

I'd give up any three players on the team and a handful of draft picks for Cousins.  He's the best center in the league, he's 24 years old, and he's on a reasonable contract.  He is much, much better than any asset we have on our squad.

This x1000

I guess Smart is next up in the "Celticsblog Over-Hyped Competition" for the Rajon Rondo Memorial Trophy.

[FreddieJ]

This might be a case of fans liking their own players

I don't think Vlade is licking chops at getting Smart for Cousins, who can be top 5

I think Karl will be fired and the franchise will move forward, but in an unusual event someone would give up the goods. He still has three years left, and the entire league would bid

[shrinkage36]

Smart was a big disappointment, imo.   I thought he'd have an offensive game. 

Randle is still an unknown.  I say they have about even trade value.  Both were more valuable a year ago.

You've hated Smart from day one, so let's look at this closely. Trying to find the logic here.

Size doesn't equate to wins. That's been proven.
Defense wins championships, team play with clutch scoring wins, along with superior coaching.
Cousins has been in the league 5 years and hasn't made a difference on his team at all.

1st year - 24 wins
2nd year - 22 wins
3rd year - 28 wins
4th year - 28 wins
5th year - 29 wins.

He's had 5 years to make his team competitive or be a difference maker, he hasn't done squat in the win column. Plus, I don't know if you can build around a guy with his type of bad attitude. IMO, he's not a team player. You can wiki him if you'd like.

With Smart - 1 year he's gone from 25 to 40 wins. BTW, he's a rookie who was out several games with a VERY serious ankle injury that plagued him all year.

You want an offensive scorer. You're not getting that in the playoffs.
All offensive numbers went down in the finals except LeBron, which was a beneficiary of the Warriors game plan to let him score.

What wins in the playoffs, is individual defense (Iggy) and team defense first. You have to be able to stop players like Lebron and or Curry.

I don't know why we're so quick to get rid of a guy who's not had a chance to prove anything. And thinking that getting a tall guy is going to make a difference when you, on the other hand, get rid of a guy who could work with him. The best center in the league or most gifted couldn't get past a small team. Yeah, Houston. What difference has Dwight Howard made with regards to Championships? None

Instead of finding ways to get rid of Smart, pair him with a guy like Cousins(skill wise, not necessarily him) You put yourself in the same boat when you get rid of difference making players.and swap them out for other difference making players.  And if you can truly say he's not a difference maker with the ability to significantly improve, then you're being negative purposely.

[FreddieJ]

Smart was a big disappointment, imo.   I thought he'd have an offensive game. 

Randle is still an unknown.  I say they have about even trade value.  Both were more valuable a year ago.

You've hated Smart from day one, so let's look at this closely. Trying to find the logic here.

Size doesn't equate to wins. That's been proven.
Defense wins championships, team play with clutch scoring wins, along with superior coaching.
Cousins has been in the league 5 years and hasn't made a difference on his team at all.

1st year - 24 wins
2nd year - 22 wins
3rd year - 28 wins
4th year - 28 wins
5th year - 29 wins.

He's had 5 years to make his team competitive or be a difference maker, he hasn't done squat in the win column. Plus, I don't know if you can build around a guy with his type of bad attitude. IMO, he's not a team player. You can wiki him if you'd like.

With Smart - 1 year he's gone from 25 to 40 wins. BTW, he's a rookie who was out several games with a VERY serious ankle injury that plagued him all year.

You want an offensive scorer. You're not getting that in the playoffs.
All offensive numbers went down in the finals except LeBron, which was a beneficiary of the Warriors game plan to let him score.

What wins in the playoffs, is individual defense (Iggy) and team defense first. You have to be able to stop players like Lebron and or Curry.

I don't know why we're so quick to get rid of a guy who's not had a chance to prove anything. And thinking that getting a tall guy is going to make a difference when you, on the other hand, get rid of a guy who could work with him. The best center in the league or most gifted couldn't get past a small team. Yeah, Houston. What difference has Dwight Howard made with regards to Championships? None

Instead of finding ways to get rid of Smart, pair him with a guy like Cousins(skill wise, not necessarily him) You put yourself in the same boat when you get rid of difference making players.and swap them out for other difference making players.  And if you can truly say he's not a difference maker with the ability to significantly improve, then you're being negative purposely.

You measure impact by advanced metrics and how the team fares without a player, not the overall teams win loss record which is composed of many things

Is it Cousins fault the team had statistically one of the worst benches, lost its third best player mid season, had three coaches and FO turmoil?

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Smart and anyone else is on the table for Cousins but it doesn't mean everything together is on the table. Smart should pair with less assets to acquire him but he is definitely not a sticking point.

[Roy H.]

Cousins has been in the league 5 years and hasn't made a difference on his team at all.

Despite the dumpster fire surrounding him, with Cousins the Kings actually outscored opponents last year.  In terms of ESPN's RPM ("Real Plus Minus) stat, Cousins was in the top-10 in terms of impact.

[blink]

Smart was a big disappointment, imo.   I thought he'd have an offensive game. 

Randle is still an unknown.  I say they have about even trade value.  Both were more valuable a year ago.

You've hated Smart from day one, so let's look at this closely. Trying to find the logic here.

Size doesn't equate to wins. That's been proven.
Defense wins championships, team play with clutch scoring wins, along with superior coaching.
Cousins has been in the league 5 years and hasn't made a difference on his team at all.

1st year - 24 wins
2nd year - 22 wins
3rd year - 28 wins
4th year - 28 wins
5th year - 29 wins.

He's had 5 years to make his team competitive or be a difference maker, he hasn't done squat in the win column. Plus, I don't know if you can build around a guy with his type of bad attitude. IMO, he's not a team player. You can wiki him if you'd like.

With Smart - 1 year he's gone from 25 to 40 wins. BTW, he's a rookie who was out several games with a VERY serious ankle injury that plagued him all year.

You want an offensive scorer. You're not getting that in the playoffs.
All offensive numbers went down in the finals except LeBron, which was a beneficiary of the Warriors game plan to let him score.

What wins in the playoffs, is individual defense (Iggy) and team defense first. You have to be able to stop players like Lebron and or Curry.

I don't know why we're so quick to get rid of a guy who's not had a chance to prove anything. And thinking that getting a tall guy is going to make a difference when you, on the other hand, get rid of a guy who could work with him. The best center in the league or most gifted couldn't get past a small team. Yeah, Houston. What difference has Dwight Howard made with regards to Championships? None

Instead of finding ways to get rid of Smart, pair him with a guy like Cousins(skill wise, not necessarily him) You put yourself in the same boat when you get rid of difference making players.and swap them out for other difference making players.  And if you can truly say he's not a difference maker with the ability to significantly improve, then you're being negative purposely.

So let me get this straight.  You are claiming that the Celtic's increase in wins from last year to this year is only due to Smart?  I just want to make sure I understand this nonsense before I really comment on it.  I mean basketball is a team sport right, so yeah none of the rest of the team would have anything to do with winning more games, right. 

flipside to Cousins.. So all the losing in Sac town comes down to his inability to make the team better?  umm yeah right.

umm, Wow, this has been an interesting day on the forums...

[CM0]

I'd give up any three players on the team and a handful of draft picks for Cousins.  He's the best center in the league, he's 24 years old, and he's on a reasonable contract.  He is much, much better than any asset we have on our squad.

This x1000

Davis is easily the best center in the league but your point is still taken.

[Roy H.]

I'd give up any three players on the team and a handful of draft picks for Cousins.  He's the best center in the league, he's 24 years old, and he's on a reasonable contract.  He is much, much better than any asset we have on our squad.

This x1000

Davis is easily the best center in the league but your point is still taken.

Davis starts at PF.

[CM0]

I'd give up any three players on the team and a handful of draft picks for Cousins.  He's the best center in the league, he's 24 years old, and he's on a reasonable contract.  He is much, much better than any asset we have on our squad.

This x1000

Davis is easily the best center in the league but your point is still taken.

Davis starts at PF.

When he plays center, he's the best at it.

[crimson_stallion]

Would you trade Smart and picks for Cousins? Isiaih, Bradley, Crowder/Young, Sully/KO, Cousins.  I wouldn't.  Smart would be the sticking point.

Our team is set up to bring in a guy like Cousins but we can't really give up any of those guys to do it. Our team would have to be

Oh we absloutely can, and I absolutely would..in a heartbeat.

In terms of wins added, a guy like cousins is worth about three of the guys on that list on his own...at least.

[crimson_stallion]

Davis is easily the best center in the league but your point is still taken.

In what possible way can you justify the claim that Davis is "easilly" better than Cousins?

You can say Davis is on par with Cousins, right up there with Cousins...you could even argue that he's better than cousins.

But to argue that Davis is EASILY better than Cousins is like arguing that Michael Jordan was EASILY better than Lebron - it's just not true.

Statistically the two are completely on-par.

Davis of course has the advantage in terms of his intangibles (age, upside, personality) but in terms of their actual skill/talent level and their ability to dominate games right now...they are absolutely comparable.

Oh, and Davis is not a center.

[crimson_stallion]

Smart was a big disappointment, imo.   I thought he'd have an offensive game. 

Randle is still an unknown.  I say they have about even trade value.  Both were more valuable a year ago.

You've hated Smart from day one, so let's look at this closely. Trying to find the logic here.

Size doesn't equate to wins. That's been proven.
Defense wins championships, team play with clutch scoring wins, along with superior coaching.
Cousins has been in the league 5 years and hasn't made a difference on his team at all.

1st year - 24 wins
2nd year - 22 wins
3rd year - 28 wins
4th year - 28 wins
5th year - 29 wins.

He's had 5 years to make his team competitive or be a difference maker, he hasn't done squat in the win column. Plus, I don't know if you can build around a guy with his type of bad attitude. IMO, he's not a team player. You can wiki him if you'd like.

With Smart - 1 year he's gone from 25 to 40 wins. BTW, he's a rookie who was out several games with a VERY serious ankle injury that plagued him all year.

You want an offensive scorer. You're not getting that in the playoffs.
All offensive numbers went down in the finals except LeBron, which was a beneficiary of the Warriors game plan to let him score.

What wins in the playoffs, is individual defense (Iggy) and team defense first. You have to be able to stop players like Lebron and or Curry.

I don't know why we're so quick to get rid of a guy who's not had a chance to prove anything. And thinking that getting a tall guy is going to make a difference when you, on the other hand, get rid of a guy who could work with him. The best center in the league or most gifted couldn't get past a small team. Yeah, Houston. What difference has Dwight Howard made with regards to Championships? None

Instead of finding ways to get rid of Smart, pair him with a guy like Cousins(skill wise, not necessarily him) You put yourself in the same boat when you get rid of difference making players.and swap them out for other difference making players.  And if you can truly say he's not a difference maker with the ability to significantly improve, then you're being negative purposely.

So let me get this straight.  You are claiming that the Celtic's increase in wins from last year to this year is only due to Smart?  I just want to make sure I understand this nonsense before I really comment on it.  I mean basketball is a team sport right, so yeah none of the rest of the team would have anything to do with winning more games, right. 

flipside to Cousins.. So all the losing in Sac town comes down to his inability to make the team better?  umm yeah right.

umm, Wow, this has been an interesting day on the forums...

Actually our success this year did have a LOT to do with Marcus Smart, but it wan't ENTIRELY due to Smart.

However I do believe that without Smart we would not have made the playoffs.

As for Cousins not making Sacramento better, that's a lie.  Without Cousins Sacramento would be significantly worse than they already are.  His Real Plus Minus of +6.12 (9th overall) indicates that there were no more than 8 players (out of 475) in the entire NBA who had more positive impact when on the floor than Cousins did for the Kings. 

Without him they would be bad...real bad.

[walker834]

We can trade up and offer Kristaps or whoever we take plus a couple guys and picks.  I wouldn't trade Marcus or Isiaiah though.  Sac might want Hezonja, Marcus and picks for Boogie.  I would part with Bradley, Mudiay, KO and picks.  Maybe we can move up with both our picks.  Select Mudiay and someone else for  Cousins.

I'm listening to Felger and Mazz and they are talking about Marcus reaching his ceiling as a rookie.  Come on now.

[D.o.s.]

Smart was a big disappointment, imo.   I thought he'd have an offensive game. 

Randle is still an unknown.  I say they have about even trade value.  Both were more valuable a year ago.

You've hated Smart from day one, so let's look at this closely. Trying to find the logic here.

Size doesn't equate to wins. That's been proven.
Defense wins championships, team play with clutch scoring wins, along with superior coaching.
Cousins has been in the league 5 years and hasn't made a difference on his team at all.

1st year - 24 wins
2nd year - 22 wins
3rd year - 28 wins
4th year - 28 wins
5th year - 29 wins.

He's had 5 years to make his team competitive or be a difference maker, he hasn't done squat in the win column. Plus, I don't know if you can build around a guy with his type of bad attitude. IMO, he's not a team player. You can wiki him if you'd like.

With Smart - 1 year he's gone from 25 to 40 wins. BTW, he's a rookie who was out several games with a VERY serious ankle injury that plagued him all year.

You want an offensive scorer. You're not getting that in the playoffs.
All offensive numbers went down in the finals except LeBron, which was a beneficiary of the Warriors game plan to let him score.

What wins in the playoffs, is individual defense (Iggy) and team defense first. You have to be able to stop players like Lebron and or Curry.

I don't know why we're so quick to get rid of a guy who's not had a chance to prove anything. And thinking that getting a tall guy is going to make a difference when you, on the other hand, get rid of a guy who could work with him. The best center in the league or most gifted couldn't get past a small team. Yeah, Houston. What difference has Dwight Howard made with regards to Championships? None

Instead of finding ways to get rid of Smart, pair him with a guy like Cousins(skill wise, not necessarily him) You put yourself in the same boat when you get rid of difference making players.and swap them out for other difference making players.  And if you can truly say he's not a difference maker with the ability to significantly improve, then you're being negative purposely.

I don't necessarily disagree with your feelings on Smart, but your assessment on Cousins is wrong, your assessment of Howard ignores the fact that he was the best player on a championship team (something Smart will never be. Full stop.), and the idea that we can just find someone skill wise who replicates what Cousins is doing is completely wrong.

I get that you and walker don't want to trade smart. I'm with you, for the most part: I think of our roster we trade smart last. But you 110% trade him  for Cousins on every day that ends in Y and twice a day on the weekends.