[LA Times] Boston explored trading picks + Smart for Noel + 3rd, Philly declined

[TheFlex]

Danny is a man after my own heart... offering Smart + #16 + #28 for Noel... but then having the gall to also ask for #3.   Love that dude.  HOpe he pulls something off this summer.  Keep blasting people with ridiculous offers and maybe someone will actually go for it.

Maybe, just maybe, the price tag for an inept offensive player with injury history isn't as high across the league as the Sixers contingent, including the resident Celtics blog member who masquerades as a Celtics fan, believes.

You got me Eddie... I've been participating in this forum for 11 years + another 5+ on the old ESPN forums... just pretending to be a Celtic fan... biding my time and waiting...  constantly telling myself, "There's a couple little 5 year old kids named Joel Embiid and Nerlens Noel that I adore...  can't wait so I can hype them up pre-draft... beg for the celtics to trade for them... then watch as they land on the 76ers and reveal that all-along I was actually a 76er fans... muahahahah... EEeeevviil" 

LarBrd33 isn't a 76ers fan.    Maybe Sam Hinkie is a LarBrd33 fan, though.

TP for some comic relief.

I think if we subbed #28 for the 2016 Brooklyn 1st, though, we'd have a done deal.

[Eddie20]

Danny is a man after my own heart... offering Smart + #16 + #28 for Noel... but then having the gall to also ask for #3.   Love that dude.  HOpe he pulls something off this summer.  Keep blasting people with ridiculous offers and maybe someone will actually go for it.

Maybe, just maybe, the price tag for an inept offensive player with injury history isn't as high across the league as the Sixers contingent, including the resident Celtics blog member who masquerades as a Celtics fan, believes.

You got me Eddie... I've been participating in this forum for 11 years + another 5+ on the old ESPN forums... just pretending to be a Celtic fan... biding my time and waiting...  constantly telling myself, "There's a couple little 5 year old kids named Joel Embiid and Nerlens Noel that I adore...  can't wait so I can hype them up pre-draft... beg for the celtics to trade for them... then watch as they land on the 76ers and reveal that all-along I was actually a 76er fans... muahahahah... EEeeevviil" 

LarBrd33 isn't a 76ers fan.    Maybe Sam Hinkie is a LarBrd33 fan, though.

I never said I was referring to you. Probably your guilty mind at work.

[Evantime34]

I know I'm in the minority on this blog but I think I would rather have Smart than Noel. I see Smart with a much higher offensive ceiling, even though stellar d at Noel's position is more important than stellar d at Smart's.

I also think this leaked rumor was actually a counter offer from Danny after Philly offered us Noel for Smart and 16. A rumor which I heard a week or two ago on another Celtics forum.

[Endless Paradise]

LarBrd isn't a fake Celtics fan. He just doesn't take this forum all that seriously and doesn't mind showcasing his flair for the theatrics in the name of entertainment. I personally appreciate his posts, they add a different element to the site.

[Smokeeye123]

That offer is a joke.

If you offer both picks AND smart for just Noel it's still a joke.

[Eddie20]

I know I'm in the minority on this blog but I think I would rather have Smart than Noel. I see Smart with a much higher offensive ceiling, even though stellar d at Noel's position is more important than stellar d at Smart's.

I also think this leaked rumor was actually a counter offer from Danny after Philly offered us Noel for Smart and 16. A rumor which I heard a week or two ago on another Celtics forum.

I'm with you on that. I'd rather have Smart than Noel.  While Noel is a great defensive player the league is changing so rapidly into a guard oriented league, particularly at PG, that you can argue that Smart's great defensive might be more important to a team in today's game than Noel's shot blocking. Also, let's be honest about about Noel. While he's good protecting the basket and covering the P&R and in space, he's average as a rebounder and below average as a post defender.

[Geo123]

There is some sense in swapping Smart for Noel for both teams. Philly has a glut of frontcourt players, and we could use a defensive big. I'd say both are about as good as each other in terms of being prospects.

Obviously the deal stops making sense for Philly once we start asking for the #3 pick.

To me this trade wouldn't make sense for the 76ers at all.  Where is the front court glut you talk about?  Embiid is a HUGE question mark to play at all this year and can't be counted on and Saric can't come over for at least another year.  If they trade Noel they are really lacking quality bigs.  They can stay at 3 and grab Russell who by most people is thought to be better than Smart.  So why make the trade?  The answer is the 76ers wouldn't do it...

Who can play this year is irrelevant for the 76ers. They are looking to set up a team for the future and they currently have two players to potentially man the starting center role, plus Saric who would play PF. Cashing in one of them in for a guard allows them the flexibility to draft either Okafor or the Latvian big should they fall to them instead of being torn between BPA and need.

It is relevant when you're talking Embiid because you don't know IF he can ever play and if he does at what level.  So no they don't have a glut of bigs.  Trading Noel gives them no bigs to speak of and even looking forward many thought of Saric as a SF although it could be argued he's a PF going forward.  Okafor isn't falling to them.  Why would you trade Noel when you can just draft Russell and not lose Noel? 

[Eddie20]

That offer is a joke.

If you offer both picks AND smart for just Noel it's still a joke.

Noel has turned into a fictional story of dominance, where the name has become greater than the actual game. Imagine if his stats were better than:

PPG 9.9
RPG 9.5
FG% 46.2
FT% 60.9

PER 15

FG% (3-10 feet) 28.8
FG% (10-16 feet) 30.9
FG% (16-3PT) 27.3

[byennie]

Smart and Noel are very much the point guard / center versions of each other, being extremely gifted defensively and questionable on offense. Historically the center wins that comparison hands down, but we're in an era where the world champions were trotting out Draymond Green at center and a shutdown wing defender won MVP. With Smart you are also getting 3 years of control, instead of 2, and no major injury history. That matters.

That said, it's going to take much more to get the #3 pick included. Maybe something more like:

Smart, KO, #16, Dallas 1st rounder, Brooklyn 1st rounder (their choice)
Noel, #3

[byennie]

That offer is a joke.

If you offer both picks AND smart for just Noel it's still a joke.

Noel has turned into a fictional story of dominance, where the name has become greater than the actual game. Imagine if his stats were better than:

PPG 9.9
RPG 9.5
FG% 46.2
FT% 60.9

PER 15

FG% (3-10 feet) 28.8
FG% (10-16 feet) 30.9
FG% (16-3PT) 27.3

I see his upside as a rich man's Tyson Chandler. Which is a very valuable piece, but never will be above average offensively. Something like 14 & 10 with ok efficiency and DPOY consideration.

[Endless Paradise]

I know I'm in the minority on this blog but I think I would rather have Smart than Noel. I see Smart with a much higher offensive ceiling, even though stellar d at Noel's position is more important than stellar d at Smart's.

I also think this leaked rumor was actually a counter offer from Danny after Philly offered us Noel for Smart and 16. A rumor which I heard a week or two ago on another Celtics forum.

I'm with you on that. I'd rather have Smart than Noel.  While Noel is a great defensive player the league is changing so rapidly into a guard oriented league, particularly at PG, that you can argue that Smart's great defensive might be more important to a team in today's game than Noel's shot blocking. Also, let's be honest about about Noel. While he's good protecting the basket and covering the P&R and in space, he's average as a rebounder and below average as a post defender.

One could feasibly argue that, as the league is transitioning into more guard-oriented play, it's more imperative than ever to have really good rim protectors and pick and roll defenders. The fact that he can defend in space is an only added bonus. To use a more recently popular analogy, he's like a more athletic, taller Draymond Green with the ability to put on weight to improve his post defense. His post defense isn't as critical in a league gradually moving away from post play.

[byennie]

Supposing we upped our offer (KO, picks, etc), I'd draft Porzingis.

Thomas
Bradley
Crowder / Turner
Porzingis / Sully
Noel / Zeller

+ FA market

Or try to flip the pick for Boogie and make a sneaky push for Dragic:

#3 pick, 2x future 1sts, Sully, Zeller for Cousins

Dragic / Thomas
Bradley
Crowder / Turner
Cousins
Noel / KO

A Cousins / Noel front line would certainly be balanced and interesting, as would a Dragic / Bradley backcourt with Thomas as the 6th man.

[Eddie20]

I know I'm in the minority on this blog but I think I would rather have Smart than Noel. I see Smart with a much higher offensive ceiling, even though stellar d at Noel's position is more important than stellar d at Smart's.

I also think this leaked rumor was actually a counter offer from Danny after Philly offered us Noel for Smart and 16. A rumor which I heard a week or two ago on another Celtics forum.

I'm with you on that. I'd rather have Smart than Noel.  While Noel is a great defensive player the league is changing so rapidly into a guard oriented league, particularly at PG, that you can argue that Smart's great defensive might be more important to a team in today's game than Noel's shot blocking. Also, let's be honest about about Noel. While he's good protecting the basket and covering the P&R and in space, he's average as a rebounder and below average as a post defender.

One could feasibly argue that, as the league is transitioning into more guard-oriented play, it's more imperative than ever to have really good rim protectors and pick and roll defenders. The fact that he can defend in space is an only added bonus. To use a more recently popular analogy, he's like a more athletic, taller Draymond Green with the ability to put on weight to improve his post defense. His post defense isn't as critical in a league gradually moving away from post play.

On the other hand, his complete lack of offense/post up ability means that teams can go really small vs him without any fear whatsoever of being taken advantage of in the post. You could put a smaller player/with shooting ability at the 5 and it negates Noel's shot blocking by drawing him out to the perimeter. Green on the other hand is capable offensively and can really punish you in the post if you try to defend him with a small.

[Evantime34]

I know I'm in the minority on this blog but I think I would rather have Smart than Noel. I see Smart with a much higher offensive ceiling, even though stellar d at Noel's position is more important than stellar d at Smart's.

I also think this leaked rumor was actually a counter offer from Danny after Philly offered us Noel for Smart and 16. A rumor which I heard a week or two ago on another Celtics forum.

I'm with you on that. I'd rather have Smart than Noel.  While Noel is a great defensive player the league is changing so rapidly into a guard oriented league, particularly at PG, that you can argue that Smart's great defensive might be more important to a team in today's game than Noel's shot blocking. Also, let's be honest about about Noel. While he's good protecting the basket and covering the P&R and in space, he's average as a rebounder and below average as a post defender.

One could feasibly argue that, as the league is transitioning into more guard-oriented play, it's more imperative than ever to have really good rim protectors and pick and roll defenders. The fact that he can defend in space is an only added bonus. To use a more recently popular analogy, he's like a more athletic, taller Draymond Green with the ability to put on weight to improve his post defense. His post defense isn't as critical in a league gradually moving away from post play.

I'm not sure about the Draymond comparison. I think he's more like a smaller quicker, DeAndre Jordan than Draymond.

I'm not sure he will be able to put on the weight that you are talking about and I don't think he will ever be as good offensively as Green is now.

Again, though I think Noel is absolutely more valuable on defense, even if I think both will end up being elite at their position. To me the difference is I think Smart will be able to produce at a much higher rate offensively.

[Vermont Green]

just my thought I would explore Smart and 28 for Noel..

Philly:  We will give you Noel for Smart and #16
Danny: Noel and #3 for Smart, #16, #28

(or something like that and conversation ends)

VermontGreen:  OK guys, lets compromise here, how about:

Smart, BKN-2016, #28
for
Noel and #3

I don't think these guys are that far apart but I am not sure Danny would be all that hot on Noel.

I think if we subbed #28 for the 2016 Brooklyn 1st, though, we'd have a done deal.

As I said, not all that far apart, I would counter with Smart, Dallas-2016 and BKN-2016 but really pretty close.  I think if discussions stalled it is because Danny didn't really want to trade Smart for Noel.  Or maybe they are still working on this.