[LA Times] Boston explored trading picks + Smart for Noel + 3rd, Philly declined

[Evantime34]

just my thought I would explore Smart and 28 for Noel..

Philly:  We will give you Noel for Smart and #16
Danny: Noel and #3 for Smart, #16, #28

(or something like that and conversation ends)

VermontGreen:  OK guys, lets compromise here, how about:

Smart, BKN-2016, #28
for
Noel and #3

I don't think these guys are that far apart but I am not sure Danny would be all that hot on Noel.

I think if we subbed #28 for the 2016 Brooklyn 1st, though, we'd have a done deal.

As I said, not all that far apart, I would counter with Smart, Dallas-2016 and BKN-2016 but really pretty close.  I think if discussions stalled it is because Danny didn't really want to trade Smart for Noel.  Or maybe they are still working on this.

The rumors I have read indicate that Hinkie is the one trying to move Noel, not that Ainge was looking to move Smart.

[D.o.s.]

I know I'm in the minority on this blog but I think I would rather have Smart than Noel. I see Smart with a much higher offensive ceiling, even though stellar d at Noel's position is more important than stellar d at Smart's.

I also think this leaked rumor was actually a counter offer from Danny after Philly offered us Noel for Smart and 16. A rumor which I heard a week or two ago on another Celtics forum.

I'm with you on that. I'd rather have Smart than Noel.  While Noel is a great defensive player the league is changing so rapidly into a guard oriented league, particularly at PG, that you can argue that Smart's great defensive might be more important to a team in today's game than Noel's shot blocking. Also, let's be honest about about Noel. While he's good protecting the basket and covering the P&R and in space, he's average as a rebounder and below average as a post defender.

One could feasibly argue that, as the league is transitioning into more guard-oriented play, it's more imperative than ever to have really good rim protectors and pick and roll defenders. The fact that he can defend in space is an only added bonus. To use a more recently popular analogy, he's like a more athletic, taller Draymond Green with the ability to put on weight to improve his post defense. His post defense isn't as critical in a league gradually moving away from post play.

On the other hand, his complete lack of offense/post up ability means that teams can go really small vs him without any fear whatsoever of being taken advantage of in the post. You could put a smaller player/with shooting ability at the 5 and it negates Noel's shot blocking by drawing him out to the perimeter. Green on the other hand is capable offensively and can really punish you in the post if you try to defend him with a small.

This is more of a point than I think some will realize: a complete lack of offense got Andrew Bogut, an elite rim protector, DNP-CD's in Golden State's two most important games of the season.

[LarBrd33]

Danny is a man after my own heart... offering Smart + #16 + #28 for Noel... but then having the gall to also ask for #3.   Love that dude.  HOpe he pulls something off this summer.  Keep blasting people with ridiculous offers and maybe someone will actually go for it.

Maybe, just maybe, the price tag for an inept offensive player with injury history isn't as high across the league as the Sixers contingent, including the resident Celtics blog member who masquerades as a Celtics fan, believes.

You got me Eddie... I've been participating in this forum for 11 years + another 5+ on the old ESPN forums... just pretending to be a Celtic fan... biding my time and waiting...  constantly telling myself, "There's a couple little 5 year old kids named Joel Embiid and Nerlens Noel that I adore...  can't wait so I can hype them up pre-draft... beg for the celtics to trade for them... then watch as they land on the 76ers and reveal that all-along I was actually a 76er fans... muahahahah... EEeeevviil" 

LarBrd33 isn't a 76ers fan.    Maybe Sam Hinkie is a LarBrd33 fan, though.

TP for some comic relief.

I think if we subbed #28 for the 2016 Brooklyn 1st, though, we'd have a done deal.

I don't think so.  If you had a center who projects as a perennial defensive player of the year, I don't think you give it up for "maybes" and "what ifs".   

Smart is undeniably a real asset.  He's easily the best asset on this team.  I always say that he's a "B-" asset in a sea of C's and D's.   He's the closest thing we have to quality asset.   #16 is meh, imo.  #28 is bleh.    The Brooklyn pick has hypothetical trade value, but I still project it 12-17... which puts it right back firmly in "meh" territory.

So you're talking about Smart + mehs/blehs for Noel.    Noel is significantly more valuable than Smart, imo.  At the moment they are both defensive role players.  Noel can change the dynamic of an entire team with his defense, though.   Smart can just be a troublesome pest for opposing guards.  It's just the way basketball works... a versatile defensive big can transform an entire defensive identity.

[konkmv]

Not happening

[Celtics4ever]

I do not trust this article.

[danglertx]

Danny is a man after my own heart... offering Smart + #16 + #28 for Noel... but then having the gall to also ask for #3.   Love that dude.  HOpe he pulls something off this summer.  Keep blasting people with ridiculous offers and maybe someone will actually go for it.

Maybe, just maybe, the price tag for an inept offensive player with injury history isn't as high across the league as the Sixers contingent, including the resident Celtics blog member who masquerades as a Celtics fan, believes.

You got me Eddie... I've been participating in this forum for 11 years + another 5+ on the old ESPN forums... just pretending to be a Celtic fan... biding my time and waiting...  constantly telling myself, "There's a couple little 5 year old kids named Joel Embiid and Nerlens Noel that I adore...  can't wait so I can hype them up pre-draft... beg for the celtics to trade for them... then watch as they land on the 76ers and reveal that all-along I was actually a 76er fans... muahahahah... EEeeevviil" 

LarBrd33 isn't a 76ers fan.    Maybe Sam Hinkie is a LarBrd33 fan, though.

TP for some comic relief.

I think if we subbed #28 for the 2016 Brooklyn 1st, though, we'd have a done deal.

I don't think so.  If you had a center who projects as a perennial defensive player of the year, I don't think you give it up for "maybes" and "what ifs".   

Smart is undeniably a real asset.  He's easily the best asset on this team.  I always say that he's a "B-" asset in a sea of C's and D's.   He's the closest thing we have to quality asset.   #16 is meh, imo.  #28 is bleh.    The Brooklyn pick has hypothetical trade value, but I still project it 12-17... which puts it right back firmly in "meh" territory.

So you're talking about Smart + mehs/blehs for Noel.    Noel is significantly more valuable than Smart, imo.  At the moment they are both defensive role players.  Noel can change the dynamic of an entire team with his defense, though.   Smart can just be a troublesome pest for opposing guards.  It's just the way basketball works... a versatile defensive big can transform an entire defensive identity.

Noel projects as a perennial defensive player of the year?  I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he never wins a single dpoy.  Feels pretty solid out here.  You must be watching a different Nerlens Noel than me. 

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

I know I'm in the minority on this blog but I think I would rather have Smart than Noel. I see Smart with a much higher offensive ceiling, even though stellar d at Noel's position is more important than stellar d at Smart's.

I also think this leaked rumor was actually a counter offer from Danny after Philly offered us Noel for Smart and 16. A rumor which I heard a week or two ago on another Celtics forum.

I'm with you on that. I'd rather have Smart than Noel.  While Noel is a great defensive player the league is changing so rapidly into a guard oriented league, particularly at PG, that you can argue that Smart's great defensive might be more important to a team in today's game than Noel's shot blocking. Also, let's be honest about about Noel. While he's good protecting the basket and covering the P&R and in space, he's average as a rebounder and below average as a post defender.

One could feasibly argue that, as the league is transitioning into more guard-oriented play, it's more imperative than ever to have really good rim protectors and pick and roll defenders. The fact that he can defend in space is an only added bonus. To use a more recently popular analogy, he's like a more athletic, taller Draymond Green with the ability to put on weight to improve his post defense. His post defense isn't as critical in a league gradually moving away from post play.

On the other hand, his complete lack of offense/post up ability means that teams can go really small vs him without any fear whatsoever of being taken advantage of in the post. You could put a smaller player/with shooting ability at the 5 and it negates Noel's shot blocking by drawing him out to the perimeter. Green on the other hand is capable offensively and can really punish you in the post if you try to defend him with a small.

This is more of a point than I think some will realize: a complete lack of offense got Andrew Bogut, an elite rim protector, DNP-CD's in Golden State's two most important games of the season.

I think Noel is actually a pretty good fit as a small ball 5. He can run, defend the perimeter and you can attack a size mismatch in more ways than just posting up a big guy.

Plus I'd be wary of reading too much into 1 series. Their other toughest test was Memphis who uses two bigs in their lineups quite frequently.

[Endless Paradise]

On the other hand, his complete lack of offense/post up ability means that teams can go really small vs him without any fear whatsoever of being taken advantage of in the post. You could put a smaller player/with shooting ability at the 5 and it negates Noel's shot blocking by drawing him out to the perimeter. Green on the other hand is capable offensively and can really punish you in the post if you try to defend him with a small.

This is more of a point than I think some will realize: a complete lack of offense got Andrew Bogut, an elite rim protector, DNP-CD's in Golden State's two most important games of the season.

A critical difference between Noel and Bogut, however, is that Noel is significantly more athletic and mobile while also having two fully-functioning elbows. The Clippers have managed to make DeAndre Jordan into a pretty respectable offensive threat simply with rim-runs and alley-oops. Of course Noel will have to work on the rebounding, but I don't it's beyond the pail to suggest that Noel will likely have more of an impact on offense than Bogut has ever had with the Warriors.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

Danny is a man after my own heart... offering Smart + #16 + #28 for Noel... but then having the gall to also ask for #3.   Love that dude.  HOpe he pulls something off this summer.  Keep blasting people with ridiculous offers and maybe someone will actually go for it.

Maybe, just maybe, the price tag for an inept offensive player with injury history isn't as high across the league as the Sixers contingent, including the resident Celtics blog member who masquerades as a Celtics fan, believes.

You got me Eddie... I've been participating in this forum for 11 years + another 5+ on the old ESPN forums... just pretending to be a Celtic fan... biding my time and waiting...  constantly telling myself, "There's a couple little 5 year old kids named Joel Embiid and Nerlens Noel that I adore...  can't wait so I can hype them up pre-draft... beg for the celtics to trade for them... then watch as they land on the 76ers and reveal that all-along I was actually a 76er fans... muahahahah... EEeeevviil" 

LarBrd33 isn't a 76ers fan.    Maybe Sam Hinkie is a LarBrd33 fan, though.

TP for some comic relief.

I think if we subbed #28 for the 2016 Brooklyn 1st, though, we'd have a done deal.

I don't think so.  If you had a center who projects as a perennial defensive player of the year, I don't think you give it up for "maybes" and "what ifs".   

Smart is undeniably a real asset.  He's easily the best asset on this team.  I always say that he's a "B-" asset in a sea of C's and D's.   He's the closest thing we have to quality asset.   #16 is meh, imo.  #28 is bleh.    The Brooklyn pick has hypothetical trade value, but I still project it 12-17... which puts it right back firmly in "meh" territory.

So you're talking about Smart + mehs/blehs for Noel.    Noel is significantly more valuable than Smart, imo.  At the moment they are both defensive role players.  Noel can change the dynamic of an entire team with his defense, though.   Smart can just be a troublesome pest for opposing guards.  It's just the way basketball works... a versatile defensive big can transform an entire defensive identity.

You must be watching a different Nerlens Noel than me.

I think he was watching the one that was in the top 10 of blocks and steals per game, and put up defensive stats that no rookie has had since like Robinson and Olajuwon.

[D.o.s.]

On the other hand, his complete lack of offense/post up ability means that teams can go really small vs him without any fear whatsoever of being taken advantage of in the post. You could put a smaller player/with shooting ability at the 5 and it negates Noel's shot blocking by drawing him out to the perimeter. Green on the other hand is capable offensively and can really punish you in the post if you try to defend him with a small.

This is more of a point than I think some will realize: a complete lack of offense got Andrew Bogut, an elite rim protector, DNP-CD's in Golden State's two most important games of the season.

A critical difference between Noel and Bogut, however, is that Noel is significantly more athletic and mobile while also having two fully-functioning elbows. The Clippers have managed to make DeAndre Jordan into a pretty respectable offensive threat simply with rim-runs and alley-oops. Of course Noel will have to work on the rebounding, but I don't it's beyond the pail to suggest that Noel will likely have more of an impact on offense than Bogut has ever had with the Warriors.

yeah and if you give Nerlens Noel Chris Paul and a frontcourt mate who needs to be guarded all the time (and is an adept passer) I would say it's not an unreasonable suggestion at all.

Noel with Ish Smith and Henry Sims? Not so much. and I say that as a fan of Ish Smith (who is an underrated backup)

[D.o.s.]

Danny is a man after my own heart... offering Smart + #16 + #28 for Noel... but then having the gall to also ask for #3.   Love that dude.  HOpe he pulls something off this summer.  Keep blasting people with ridiculous offers and maybe someone will actually go for it.

Maybe, just maybe, the price tag for an inept offensive player with injury history isn't as high across the league as the Sixers contingent, including the resident Celtics blog member who masquerades as a Celtics fan, believes.

You got me Eddie... I've been participating in this forum for 11 years + another 5+ on the old ESPN forums... just pretending to be a Celtic fan... biding my time and waiting...  constantly telling myself, "There's a couple little 5 year old kids named Joel Embiid and Nerlens Noel that I adore...  can't wait so I can hype them up pre-draft... beg for the celtics to trade for them... then watch as they land on the 76ers and reveal that all-along I was actually a 76er fans... muahahahah... EEeeevviil" 

LarBrd33 isn't a 76ers fan.    Maybe Sam Hinkie is a LarBrd33 fan, though.

TP for some comic relief.

I think if we subbed #28 for the 2016 Brooklyn 1st, though, we'd have a done deal.

I don't think so.  If you had a center who projects as a perennial defensive player of the year, I don't think you give it up for "maybes" and "what ifs".   

Smart is undeniably a real asset.  He's easily the best asset on this team.  I always say that he's a "B-" asset in a sea of C's and D's.   He's the closest thing we have to quality asset.   #16 is meh, imo.  #28 is bleh.    The Brooklyn pick has hypothetical trade value, but I still project it 12-17... which puts it right back firmly in "meh" territory.

So you're talking about Smart + mehs/blehs for Noel.    Noel is significantly more valuable than Smart, imo.  At the moment they are both defensive role players.  Noel can change the dynamic of an entire team with his defense, though.   Smart can just be a troublesome pest for opposing guards.  It's just the way basketball works... a versatile defensive big can transform an entire defensive identity.

You must be watching a different Nerlens Noel than me.

I think he was watching the one that was in the top 10 of blocks and steals per game, and put up defensive stats that no rookie has had since like Robinson and Olajuwon.

This is a bad comparison for Noel -- I think he's going to be good, but it's hard to measure favorably against those two. It's like saying a rookie could do XYZ since Kareem or Bird (remember McDermott's SI cover?)

[Endless Paradise]

On the other hand, his complete lack of offense/post up ability means that teams can go really small vs him without any fear whatsoever of being taken advantage of in the post. You could put a smaller player/with shooting ability at the 5 and it negates Noel's shot blocking by drawing him out to the perimeter. Green on the other hand is capable offensively and can really punish you in the post if you try to defend him with a small.

This is more of a point than I think some will realize: a complete lack of offense got Andrew Bogut, an elite rim protector, DNP-CD's in Golden State's two most important games of the season.

A critical difference between Noel and Bogut, however, is that Noel is significantly more athletic and mobile while also having two fully-functioning elbows. The Clippers have managed to make DeAndre Jordan into a pretty respectable offensive threat simply with rim-runs and alley-oops. Of course Noel will have to work on the rebounding, but I don't it's beyond the pail to suggest that Noel will likely have more of an impact on offense than Bogut has ever had with the Warriors.

yeah and if you give Nerlens Noel Chris Paul and a frontcourt mate who needs to be guarded all the time (and is an adept passer) I would say it's not an unreasonable suggestion at all.

Noel with Ish Smith and Henry Sims? Not so much. and I say that as a fan of Ish Smith (who is an underrated backup)

Well, yeah, but I'm talking about hypothetical Future Nerlens Noel with hypothetical Future Legitimate NBA Teammates, not likely next year's Sixers.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

Danny is a man after my own heart... offering Smart + #16 + #28 for Noel... but then having the gall to also ask for #3.   Love that dude.  HOpe he pulls something off this summer.  Keep blasting people with ridiculous offers and maybe someone will actually go for it.

Maybe, just maybe, the price tag for an inept offensive player with injury history isn't as high across the league as the Sixers contingent, including the resident Celtics blog member who masquerades as a Celtics fan, believes.

You got me Eddie... I've been participating in this forum for 11 years + another 5+ on the old ESPN forums... just pretending to be a Celtic fan... biding my time and waiting...  constantly telling myself, "There's a couple little 5 year old kids named Joel Embiid and Nerlens Noel that I adore...  can't wait so I can hype them up pre-draft... beg for the celtics to trade for them... then watch as they land on the 76ers and reveal that all-along I was actually a 76er fans... muahahahah... EEeeevviil" 

LarBrd33 isn't a 76ers fan.    Maybe Sam Hinkie is a LarBrd33 fan, though.

TP for some comic relief.

I think if we subbed #28 for the 2016 Brooklyn 1st, though, we'd have a done deal.

I don't think so.  If you had a center who projects as a perennial defensive player of the year, I don't think you give it up for "maybes" and "what ifs".   

Smart is undeniably a real asset.  He's easily the best asset on this team.  I always say that he's a "B-" asset in a sea of C's and D's.   He's the closest thing we have to quality asset.   #16 is meh, imo.  #28 is bleh.    The Brooklyn pick has hypothetical trade value, but I still project it 12-17... which puts it right back firmly in "meh" territory.

So you're talking about Smart + mehs/blehs for Noel.    Noel is significantly more valuable than Smart, imo.  At the moment they are both defensive role players.  Noel can change the dynamic of an entire team with his defense, though.   Smart can just be a troublesome pest for opposing guards.  It's just the way basketball works... a versatile defensive big can transform an entire defensive identity.

You must be watching a different Nerlens Noel than me.

I think he was watching the one that was in the top 10 of blocks and steals per game, and put up defensive stats that no rookie has had since like Robinson and Olajuwon.

This is a bad comparison for Noel -- I think he's going to be good, but it's hard to measure favorably against those two. It's like saying a rookie could do XYZ since Kareem or Bird (remember McDermott's SI cover?)

I think his defensive comparisons are Garnett and Camby(with a longer prime). KG obviously dwarfs anything he'll do offensively but the kid has a natural intelligence on defense, similar build and can attack the PnR on the perimeter while also offering excellent rim protection.

He looks like a baby deer on ice at times on offense, but defensively he's already a plus which is pretty rare for 20 year olds.

[D.o.s.]

On the other hand, his complete lack of offense/post up ability means that teams can go really small vs him without any fear whatsoever of being taken advantage of in the post. You could put a smaller player/with shooting ability at the 5 and it negates Noel's shot blocking by drawing him out to the perimeter. Green on the other hand is capable offensively and can really punish you in the post if you try to defend him with a small.

This is more of a point than I think some will realize: a complete lack of offense got Andrew Bogut, an elite rim protector, DNP-CD's in Golden State's two most important games of the season.

A critical difference between Noel and Bogut, however, is that Noel is significantly more athletic and mobile while also having two fully-functioning elbows. The Clippers have managed to make DeAndre Jordan into a pretty respectable offensive threat simply with rim-runs and alley-oops. Of course Noel will have to work on the rebounding, but I don't it's beyond the pail to suggest that Noel will likely have more of an impact on offense than Bogut has ever had with the Warriors.

yeah and if you give Nerlens Noel Chris Paul and a frontcourt mate who needs to be guarded all the time (and is an adept passer) I would say it's not an unreasonable suggestion at all.

Noel with Ish Smith and Henry Sims? Not so much. and I say that as a fan of Ish Smith (who is an underrated backup)

Well, yeah, but I'm talking about hypothetical Future Nerlens Noel with hypothetical Future Legitimate NBA Teammates, not likely next year's Sixers.

Which reminds me of my favorite CB post of all time -- the hypothetical alternate reality where Fab Melo returns as the next Hakeem.

[Boris Badenov]

Which reminds me of my favorite CB post of all time -- the hypothetical alternate reality where Fab Melo returns as the next Hakeem.

This one?

we have Akeem Olajuwon in the D-League and we do not even know it.

Fab Melo like Akeem is tall and athletic, he is actually taller than Akeem.

Fab Melo like Akeem comes from a soccer playing background.

Fab Melo like Akeem played just a couple of years in college and opted early for the draft. I think Akeem may have played one more year in college which means he was more developed than Fab coming out. Akeem also had played some basketball in his native Nigeria before playing NCAA ball. Akeem was definitely more experienced than Fab at this stage.

Fab Melo like Akeem showed little offensive skills in college depending more on height athelticism and superior footwork to be a monster on defense.

I believe that Akeem had a lot more swagger and confidence than Fab Melo coming into the league, and the challenge of the Celtics is to get this kid confidence. I doubt that Doc Rivers is the best coach for that. He simply does not develop players very well.

Anyway, I believe we have an Akeem in our farm system, the question is can we turn him into a HAKEEM?