We are in an unfortunate situation

[D.o.s.]

Sullinger was a top 5 draft prospect before he hurt his back.

Anyway I feel like we just went over this in the last couple of pages and you can probably read those to see what a likely response would be, but I don't think it's particularly controversial to say that most NBA teams and fans saw more potential in James Harden than they did in Kyle Korver when he was drafted. See the difference?

[Ilikesports17]

Sullinger was a top 5 draft prospect before he hurt his back.

Anyway I feel like we just went over this in the last couple of pages and you can probably read those to see what a likely response would be, but I don't think it's particularly controversial to say that most NBA teams and fans saw more potential in James Harden than they did in Kyle Korver when he was drafted. See the difference?

What is your point?

Kyle Korver should have never been an all-star and Harden is an MVP candidate. Coming into the league I dont remember Korver and I remember Harden. I dont know about you but I thought he was a tremendous weapon. Thought hed be a really good scorer in the league. However, he made a largely unexpected leap from IT4 type to KD type. Im not saying Smart will do this nor that Sully or KO will, but if they make a leap they could all 3 be all stars.

[D.o.s.]

My point is best expressed in previous posts. I usually like to read the entire thread before replying if I have the time. Maybe I am the exception to the rule.

Rookies struggle,  sure. but [...] there are pretty clear delineations between who was going to/had the capacity to be great and players that could fairly obviously pan out as role players.

[Ilikesports17]

If Sully comes back in the best shape of his life. What is preventing him from putting up 18 and 10 numbers and being selected to the all-star game. Its not entirely likely but its possible.

KO requires a huge mental adjustment but if he somehow kicks it in gear ( I dont expect this in the least) we will all be able to look back and say oh yeah he did have a special skillset buried in there.

Smart is the most likely to make the leap. Do you really not believe he can do it?

[Ilikesports17]

My point is best expressed in previous posts. I usually like to read the entire thread before replying if I have the time. Maybe I am the exception to the rule.

Rookies struggle,  sure. but [...] there are pretty clear delineations between who was going to/had the capacity to be great and players that could fairly obviously pan out as role players.

fair enough Im scrolling through this blog during commercials so I didnt quite get the full context.

I think the root of the argument is can you predict a players ceiling based on the first few years in the league.

Many of the players I listed are not condusive to my point but I just figured it to be the easiest way to organize "all-star level players"

That being said, outside of the 4 or 5 top 5 picks on that list, none of these guys came out of the gates looking like all stars and they all became them.

The root of the problem here is that while Smart Sully and KO and even Young and hell why not throw AB in too, could become top 10 guys at their positions. I dont think any can be top 10 NBA players which you need to win a championship.

actualy let me edit that:

I think Smart will be a top 10 pg Sully has an outside shot at being a top 10 PF and Young and Kelly are facing bery uphill batlles.

[Celtics18]

The post he made. You can read it, I assume.

To wit, what he said was:

I think if you actually started looking at the starters on true legit contenders and then looked at their rookie years, I think you would be surprised at how much potential they showed.  Obviously they aren't nearly as good or as consistent as rookies, but you saw it.

I could totally see Smart, Sullinger and Olynyk as being a 4th or 5th starter on a real contender.  I've seen enough to know they have that sort of potential, but none of them have shown me enough for me to believe they could be all star level or better players.

And I agree with that. I then detailed how rare it was for a player to completely defy expectations and blossom into one of the 10 best players at his position (which is, nominally, what an All Star level player is) without anyone seeing anything before hand.

So far, we have listed three? Four? I am fairly positive that the collective hive mind of CB has watched a lot of basketball, and those are the only examples being given of players who really exploded out of nowhere -- and not just in the "no one watched him his rookie year" way.

You responded to the T-Mac thing, and in a lot of ways you hit the nail on the head: T-Mac's potential was always visible. The fact that he reached it (by improving on his handle and his shot) is an underscore to that fact, not a "but wait this thing" moment.

"Without seeing anything beforehand"?

I think plenty was seen by plenty of observers beforehand with both Marcus Smart and Kelly Olynyk. 

Yes, I responded to the T-Mac thing, because I was reminded of my impressions of early Tracy McGrady.
His development has very little to do with a discussion of the potential of Marcus Smart or Kelly Olynyk, though.

For the record, whatever our young Celtics become, I don't expect them to become Tracy McGrady, in any way. 

So, do you agree that they have no chance of becoming all stars, or just that players rarely come from completely out of nowhere to become all stars?

I'm not disagreeing with the second part of that.  Heck, even Jimmy Butler always had an All Star in him somewhere. 

[Celtics18]

My point is best expressed in previous posts. I usually like to read the entire thread before replying if I have the time. Maybe I am the exception to the rule.

Rookies struggle,  sure. but [...] there are pretty clear delineations between who was going to/had the capacity to be great and players that could fairly obviously pan out as role players.

I don't think anyone is arguing against the idea that some players have more potential than other players.

I will say, however, that how much potential given players have is often a subject up for fairly contentious debate.

[Csfan1984]

The post he made. You can read it, I assume.

To wit, what he said was:

I think if you actually started looking at the starters on true legit contenders and then looked at their rookie years, I think you would be surprised at how much potential they showed.  Obviously they aren't nearly as good or as consistent as rookies, but you saw it.

I could totally see Smart, Sullinger and Olynyk as being a 4th or 5th starter on a real contender.  I've seen enough to know they have that sort of potential, but none of them have shown me enough for me to believe they could be all star level or better players.

And I agree with that. I then detailed how rare it was for a player to completely defy expectations and blossom into one of the 10 best players at his position (which is, nominally, what an All Star level player is) without anyone seeing anything before hand.

So far, we have listed three? Four? I am fairly positive that the collective hive mind of CB has watched a lot of basketball, and those are the only examples being given of players who really exploded out of nowhere -- and not just in the "no one watched him his rookie year" way.

You responded to the T-Mac thing, and in a lot of ways you hit the nail on the head: T-Mac's potential was always visible. The fact that he reached it (by improving on his handle and his shot) is an underscore to that fact, not a "but wait this thing" moment.

"Without seeing anything beforehand"?

I think plenty was seen by plenty of observers beforehand with both Marcus Smart and Kelly Olynyk. 

Yes, I responded to the T-Mac thing, because I was reminded of my impressions of early Tracy McGrady.
His development has very little to do with a discussion of the potential of Marcus Smart or Kelly Olynyk, though.

For the record, whatever our young Celtics become, I don't expect them to become Tracy McGrady, in any way. 

So, do you agree that they have no chance of becoming all stars, or just that players rarely come from completely out of nowhere to become all stars?

I'm not disagreeing with the second part of that.  Heck, even Jimmy Butler always had an All Star in him somewhere.

Wait Jimmy Butler always had all star in him. Is that as in he was capable of all star or showed he was an already all star his rookie year. Wait don't answer that because we all know he didn't . Smh

[PhoSita]

Kyle Lowry and Jimmy Butler, both All Stars this season, had pretty unremarkable starts to their careers.

Lowry was a me-first backup and Butler was remarkable simply for his backstory and ability to play many minutes.

[Greyman]

I think Sully looks like he has an all star in him. Earlier in the season he may have had two.

[D.o.s.]

My point is best expressed in previous posts. I usually like to read the entire thread before replying if I have the time. Maybe I am the exception to the rule.

Rookies struggle,  sure. but [...] there are pretty clear delineations between who was going to/had the capacity to be great and players that could fairly obviously pan out as role players.

I don't think anyone is arguing against the idea that some players have more potential than other players.

I will say, however, that how much potential given players have is often a subject up for fairly contentious debate.

Of course, and I think that it's a fairly fruitless argument when you really boil it down -- you can't say, for example, that Butler was 'more' of an all-star than Lowry -- but I do think most people would not be surprised by the fact that either of them landed in an All Star Game.

Now, if Dellavedova wound up in an All Star Game, I think there would be a bit more shock and awe.

[Celtics18]

My point is best expressed in previous posts. I usually like to read the entire thread before replying if I have the time. Maybe I am the exception to the rule.

Rookies struggle,  sure. but [...] there are pretty clear delineations between who was going to/had the capacity to be great and players that could fairly obviously pan out as role players.

I don't think anyone is arguing against the idea that some players have more potential than other players.

I will say, however, that how much potential given players have is often a subject up for fairly contentious debate.

Of course, and I think that it's a fairly fruitless argument when you really boil it down -- you can't say, for example, that Butler was 'more' of an all-star than Lowry -- but I do think most people would not be surprised by the fact that either of them landed in an All Star Game.

Now, if Dellavedova wound up in an All Star Game, I think there would be a bit more shock and awe.

But do you think most people will be surprised if Marcus Smart or Kelly Olynyk end up in an All Star game?

Will you be surprised if either of them end up in an All Star game?

[Moranis]

My point is best expressed in previous posts. I usually like to read the entire thread before replying if I have the time. Maybe I am the exception to the rule.

Rookies struggle,  sure. but [...] there are pretty clear delineations between who was going to/had the capacity to be great and players that could fairly obviously pan out as role players.

I don't think anyone is arguing against the idea that some players have more potential than other players.

I will say, however, that how much potential given players have is often a subject up for fairly contentious debate.

Of course, and I think that it's a fairly fruitless argument when you really boil it down -- you can't say, for example, that Butler was 'more' of an all-star than Lowry -- but I do think most people would not be surprised by the fact that either of them landed in an All Star Game.

Now, if Dellavedova wound up in an All Star Game, I think there would be a bit more shock and awe.

But do you think most people will be surprised if Marcus Smart or Kelly Olynyk end up in an All Star game?

Will you be surprised if either of them end up in an All Star game?

I would unless they somehow get the Kyle Korver treatment i.e. make an all star game as his own teams 4th best player in a flukey sort of year.

[Donoghus]

My point is best expressed in previous posts. I usually like to read the entire thread before replying if I have the time. Maybe I am the exception to the rule.

Rookies struggle,  sure. but [...] there are pretty clear delineations between who was going to/had the capacity to be great and players that could fairly obviously pan out as role players.

I don't think anyone is arguing against the idea that some players have more potential than other players.

I will say, however, that how much potential given players have is often a subject up for fairly contentious debate.

Of course, and I think that it's a fairly fruitless argument when you really boil it down -- you can't say, for example, that Butler was 'more' of an all-star than Lowry -- but I do think most people would not be surprised by the fact that either of them landed in an All Star Game.

Now, if Dellavedova wound up in an All Star Game, I think there would be a bit more shock and awe.

But do you think most people will be surprised if Marcus Smart or Kelly Olynyk end up in an All Star game?

Will you be surprised if either of them end up in an All Star game?

K.O. would shock the heck out of me.

[Celtics18]

My point is best expressed in previous posts. I usually like to read the entire thread before replying if I have the time. Maybe I am the exception to the rule.

Rookies struggle,  sure. but [...] there are pretty clear delineations between who was going to/had the capacity to be great and players that could fairly obviously pan out as role players.

I don't think anyone is arguing against the idea that some players have more potential than other players.

I will say, however, that how much potential given players have is often a subject up for fairly contentious debate.

Of course, and I think that it's a fairly fruitless argument when you really boil it down -- you can't say, for example, that Butler was 'more' of an all-star than Lowry -- but I do think most people would not be surprised by the fact that either of them landed in an All Star Game.

Now, if Dellavedova wound up in an All Star Game, I think there would be a bit more shock and awe.

But do you think most people will be surprised if Marcus Smart or Kelly Olynyk end up in an All Star game?

Will you be surprised if either of them end up in an All Star game?

I would unless they somehow get the Kyle Korver treatment i.e. make an all star game as his own teams 4th best player in a flukey sort of year.

Thanks for the straightforward answer. 

I'm certainly not guaranteeing that both or either will be All Stars, but I've seen what I consider to be legitimate All Star potential from both players.

I do think, though, that, like most players who make All Star teams, they would need the right situation with the right coaches, the right teammates, and the right fit.