We are in an unfortunate situation

[D.o.s.]

My point is best expressed in previous posts. I usually like to read the entire thread before replying if I have the time. Maybe I am the exception to the rule.

Rookies struggle,  sure. but [...] there are pretty clear delineations between who was going to/had the capacity to be great and players that could fairly obviously pan out as role players.

I don't think anyone is arguing against the idea that some players have more potential than other players.

I will say, however, that how much potential given players have is often a subject up for fairly contentious debate.

Of course, and I think that it's a fairly fruitless argument when you really boil it down -- you can't say, for example, that Butler was 'more' of an all-star than Lowry -- but I do think most people would not be surprised by the fact that either of them landed in an All Star Game.

Now, if Dellavedova wound up in an All Star Game, I think there would be a bit more shock and awe.

But do you think most people will be surprised if Marcus Smart or Kelly Olynyk end up in an All Star game?

Will you be surprised if either of them end up in an All Star game?

Yes and yes -- but again, to me being an All Star Caliber talent and making an appearance in an All Star Game are two different things. Like I said earlier, I think the former means you're one of the ten best players at your position in a given season. The latter is a binary equation influenced by fan voting and league office influence.

[Diggles]

I don't argue with making the playoffs - teams should try and win. I do not think our four and out will attract any free agents, however.

I don't think we will be any good for many years. Smart is not good enough. Olynyk and Sullinger and James Young are not good enough; and Zeller is good enough to be a back-up, but not good enough to be a major cog in the machine.

It is a sad thing, but I do not think we will get anyone at 16 or 28 who will matter THAT much in our rebuilding. Stevens is a great coach, but he doesn't have THAT much to work with here. If, casual fans, we can all recognize that Kevin Looney and Chris McCollough are not game changers, then don't you think rival executives can see that?

It is unfortunate, but we are not in a position to make a splash this off-season, and I am afraid we don't have much to look forward to next year

Its not like we would have gotten a game changer 10 to 16 since our record was better than most in the bottom.    I'll take the competitive playoff experience vs a NBA Finals team with all there best players playing..... ALL DAY EVERY DAY!   

[PhoSita]

I don't think many people will be surprised if Marcus Smart ends up in the All-Star game one day, purely because he has that pedigree from college and as a top 10 pick.

At the same time, he didn't show us that much in his rookie season to think he'll ever be the kind of volume scorer or general stat-sheet-stuffer that it takes to be an All-Star.  So in that sense, it would be a surprise.


Olynyk, I think, would be a surprise.  He dominated one year in college as a very polished 4th year player with size and skill, but even that was a surprise.  He's never been looked at as a potential star.

[D.o.s.]

I don't think many people will be surprised if Marcus Smart ends up in the All-Star game one day, purely because he has that pedigree from college and as a top 10 pick.

At the same time, he didn't show us that much in his rookie season to think he'll ever be the kind of volume scorer or general stat-sheet-stuffer that it takes to be an All-Star.  So in that sense, it would be a surprise.


Olynyk, I think, would be a surprise.  He dominated one year in college as a very polished 4th year player with size and skill, but even that was a surprise.  He's never been looked at as a potential star.

The biggest thing going against Smart is the depth of the position and the unlikely event that the Celtics become a marquee enough team for him to shine in public. I expect him to have a career closer to Tony Allen's accolades (four All Defense nods) than a slew of All Star appearances.

[Celtics18]

I don't think many people will be surprised if Marcus Smart ends up in the All-Star game one day, purely because he has that pedigree from college and as a top 10 pick.

At the same time, he didn't show us that much in his rookie season to think he'll ever be the kind of volume scorer or general stat-sheet-stuffer that it takes to be an All-Star.  So in that sense, it would be a surprise.


Olynyk, I think, would be a surprise.  He dominated one year in college as a very polished 4th year player with size and skill, but even that was a surprise.  He's never been looked at as a potential star.

The biggest thing going against Smart is the depth of the position and the unlikely event that the Celtics become a marquee enough team for him to shine in public. I expect him to have a career closer to Tony Allen's accolades (four All Defense nods) than a slew of All Star appearances.

I think he's going to be a better offensive player than he showed in his rookie season once he gets to play more as a lead guard (something he did rarely last year).

I'm glad he spent the year working on his three point jumper, though.  That should help him out tremendously moving forward. 

[GratefulCs]

So pessimistic. We have a dynamic backcourt trio in Smart, AB and IT, we have solid roleplayers in Sully, Olynyk, Zeller, Crowde

I wish I was this optimistic but a thing called realism always wakes me up from dreams like this one.

realism doesn't REALLY exist anyway. It's all just viewpoints


Hop on the optimist bandwagon!


There's plenty of room any the weather is always great!

actually it does exist, that's why it's derived from the word 'reality'.
But I understand what you're saying

well, even if a 'reality' does exist, none of us would see it without bias. we mostly believe we see 'reality' but even then it's just perception. Which is why i believe the term realism tough to use unless you're talking about art

[Celtics4ever]

K.O. would shock the heck out of me.

I think your safe in that regard, unless they have a Jay and Bob lookalike all star game.

[fairweatherfan]

Olynyk, I think, would be a surprise.  He dominated one year in college as a very polished 4th year player with size and skill, but even that was a surprise.  He's never been looked at as a potential star.

I don't know, if only because Olynyk seems more capable of putting up bigger scoring numbers than Smart, and the ASG tends to be biased in that direction.

I mean, imagine this: this offseason Bass signs elsewhere and we trade Sully to move up in the draft and grab a wing or C.  Olynyk's the clear #1 PF.  We make some minor roster upgrades and continue to improve incrementally, and come All-Star selection time we're 4th or 5th in the East even though our rookies aren't excelling yet.  Olynyk and IT are our top 2 scorers and Olynyk's getting a respectable number of rebounds too.  The East coaches look for a Boston representative, but there are plenty of deserving PGs and not as much big man depth, so they pass on IT and pick Olynyk. 

It's not a likely scenario by any means but nothing in there is completely crazy.  Quite a few scoring big men have had a fluke All-Star appearance or two. 

[Celtics4ever]

I don't think many people will be surprised if Marcus Smart ends up in the All-Star game one day, purely because he has that pedigree from college and as a top 10 pick.

His O, would have to take giant steps to match his D.   This is possible but it is going to take a lot of hard work from him.

I don't know, if only because Olynyk seems more capable of putting up bigger scoring numbers than Smart, and the ASG tends to be biased in that direction

 

Only every five or so games, he is wildly inconsistent.   ASG tends to like consistent performers, which KO is not.

Olynyk's the clear #1 PF.  We make some minor roster upgrades and continue to improve incrementally, and come All-Star selection time we're 4th or 5th in the East even though our rookies aren't excelling yet.  Olynyk and IT are our top 2 scorers and Olynyk's getting a respectable number of rebounds too.

 

I bet if we trade Sully to move up it will be for a starting caliber big but maybe a wing.  If it is a starting caliber big, then he could be paired with Zeller.   If we sign a big, it could be that guy.   I think both of these scenarios are more likely than KO blossoming into an all star. 

[PhoSita]

Olynyk, I think, would be a surprise.  He dominated one year in college as a very polished 4th year player with size and skill, but even that was a surprise.  He's never been looked at as a potential star.

I don't know, if only because Olynyk seems more capable of putting up bigger scoring numbers than Smart, and the ASG tends to be biased in that direction.

The biggest issue with Olynyk making the All-Star game based on scoring is that he'd need to play at least 32+ minutes a game to reach the scoring totals he'd need to contend for that spot.  I rather doubt we'll ever see Kelly carve out such a large place in the rotation, if only because he'd need to avoid fouling so often and have the confidence and fitness to take a lot of shots despite drawing defensive attention.


Anyway, I was mainly trying to highlight that there's a divide between expectations based on a player's pedigree and expectations based on a player's game.

On the one hand, some guys, like Smart, might not "surprise" if they blossom into an All-Star simply because they were a star in college and got drafted in the top 10, even though they don't show a lot of evidence of having that kind of game early on.

On the other hand, some guys might not surprise when they make an All-Star team because they were always the sort of player that showed "flashes," i.e. they made exciting plays occasionally and generally had tantalizing measurables and athleticism.  Giannis is the first guy who comes to mind.

[mctyson]

It is a sad thing

I think people on this board dramatically underestimate how good defensively Smart, Bradley, and Crowder are...and how defense was what won our last championship.

[D.o.s.]

It is a sad thing

I think people on this board dramatically underestimate how good defensively Smart, Bradley, and Crowder are...and how defense was what won our last championship.

I would counter that you are dramatically underestimating just how good our defense was in 2008. Because it was historically great.

[mctyson]

It is a sad thing

I think people on this board dramatically underestimate how good defensively Smart, Bradley, and Crowder are...and how defense was what won our last championship.

I would counter that you are dramatically underestimating just how good our defense was in 2008. Because it was historically great.

So I said defense won our last championship and you say I underestimated it?  What else do I have to say?

My point was in reference to OP that it is a "sad thing" the situation we are in...as a season ticket holder I could not be more happy about the direction of this franchise right now.

[D.o.s.]

It is a sad thing

I think people on this board dramatically underestimate how good defensively Smart, Bradley, and Crowder are...and how defense was what won our last championship.

I would counter that you are dramatically underestimating just how good our defense was in 2008. Because it was historically great.

So I said defense won our last championship and you say I underestimated it?  What else do I have to say?

My point was in reference to OP that it is a "sad thing" the situation we are in...as a season ticket holder I could not be more happy about the direction of this franchise right now.

You are insinuating that Smart, Crowder, and Bradley could be the bedrock of a defense that is good enough to win an NBA championship, just like the last ring we won.

That is like looking at Nick Young and thinking he could be the next Kobe Bryant, or Isiah Thomas and thinking he could be the next Allen Iverson, or Kelly Olynyk and thinking he could be the next  Chris Webber. Superficially there's a slight similarity, but the comparison (by insinuation) is laughable.

[PhoSita]

Scrappy small guys are a dime a dozen.

The Celtics won the 2008 championship primarily because the previous summer they added a seven foot madman who combined an ability to elevate a team defense to elite levels with an impossible to stop, efficient inside-out scoring game.


When the Celtics have a Hall of Fame caliber big man as the centerpiece of the defense, we can start making comparisons to 2008.