Enjoy the quick fix. Danny set this franchise back.

[SHAQATTACK]

Sure the Lakers and Knicks threw in the towel ,  that's acceptable , it's a rebuilding year ...their stars are pretty much shot ....their seasons went to pot...but are they going to set out to have 12 win seasons for years and years on end.  .....you know they won't , they ll be competing again ASAP ...there pride and fans won't allow years of punching lottery tickets and losing and bad basketball ...just on the HOPE of lucking into the next MJ. 

[TheTruthFot18]

I disagree wholeheartedly with the premise of this thread.

The only way to get better is by actually winning and improving in the standings which the Celtics have done.

That's how you acquire free agents, by winning.

Good players don't want to come to a sucky team that's rebuilding for years on end.

No thanks!

Free agents want to play with other great players.  Boston doesn't have any.  If I'm a young free agent, I'd rather play with Nerlens Noel, Joel Embiid and DeAngelo Russell and try to build something spectacular in Philly. 

But I have faith in Ainge.  We should have cap space to sign one impact guy.  Hopefully Ainge can use the first round sweep as a selling point.. "With your help, we can maybe take our first round opponent to 6 games!... assuming they don't restructure the playoffs... in which case, we project in the the late lotto next year"...   But really, I believe in Ainge.  Our most likely path towards a star is through trade.  The good news is that we have like 7 or 8 guys who are averaging double figures right now so maybe our role players have inflated trade value.  Maybe a trade package of Bradley, Smart, Sully, Oly, #15, #26, Brooklyn's 2016 and Brooklyn's 2018 can entice a team like Sacramento to trade DeMarcus Cousins.  We'd probably get outbid by a team with a top 5 pick, tho.

Didn't the Lakers and Magic have promising young draft picks that could lure FA's? They also had warm weather and markets to play in. All they got were Ben Gordon, Channing Frye, Jeremy Lin, and Carlos Boozer.

FA's weren't rushing to join KD and the new Thunder in 08 either. FA's want a foundation that has and can continue to win, not a hope of being good just because to drafted promising college players.

[nickagneta]

I'm getting sick of the labeling going on around here these days (tanker, hinkier, etc).

Thinking that it might not be the greatest thing for the franchise to make the playoffs with a roster that is still probably every bit as far away from true contention as the calculated tank job in Philly doesn't make some one a bad Celtics fan.

If you wouldn't take Embiid, right now, for anyone currently on our roster, injury and weight concerns and all, just know that you wouldn't make a very good NBA GM.

And so the labeling continues!!!

[danglertx]

The best way to lure free agents is by having a well run franchise, a good team that a franchise type player could see himself fitting in with and having a chance to win it all, free cap space to sign said franchise player or assets to flip to a team with a disgruntled player, and a coach that players want to play for.

I think we are in great position for those players if and when they come up.  There will always be frustrated franchise type players who want a change of scenery, be it Love, Lebron, Harden or Cousins.  The trick is to have the chips to cash in when they become available and making your destination as attractive as possible for them.  The lottery will always be a total crap shoot.  No player in college is coming into the NBA ready to be a star.  They will all need to grow physically as well as with their skill set to become stars.  Which players will do that and which have already reached near their peak will always be a game of chance.

[D.o.s.]

That's a very good post, dangler.

[Casperian]

Again, pure speculation. Can you put a number on the value between the 10th and the 15th pick? Can you put a number on the value of playoff experience? Because if you use the word "value", you have to subtract the second number from the first.

Saying that the 10th pick is a better asset than the 15th would be speculation only in your mind.  It's pure fact.

You're ignoring my question. Nice strawman.

As to the value of playoff experience, we're still in the asset acquisition / churning roster phase.  I don't think it matters much with this present bunch, any of whom he'd ship out tomorrow if he could get more valuable assets.

What about Stevens? You don't believe he could use the experience, too?
What about the fact that getting the 10th pick instead of the 15th has very little correlation to the actual talent we end up getting? What about our status as a FA destination? What about the fact the Celtics don't treat the game of basketball as a joke, or a video game in which they min/max, but as a craft they take seriously, and which effect this has on everyone in the organization, not just the players who eventually may or may not be replaced?

...

Look,it doesn't matter whether you choose to believe that Ainge wants to make the playoffs this year, and that I choose to believe that he'd rather have the 10th pick (with the way he decimated the roster, I believe Ainge was hoping for a top 5 pick).  His actions (trade-wise) indicate that he was going for a dumpster dive this year.  When actions don't align with his words, I believe the actions.

This is really about whether you think 4 playoff games with a roster that is still undergoing roster churn and the 15th pick is better for the team going forward than the 10th pick.  It's that simple really.  I'd prefer the 10th pick.  It is objectively the better asset going forward.

Are three legs better than two?

I don't believe the team did everything they could to make the playoffs, neither do I believe they tried to tank. Generally, I believe this whole narrative is just simple minded fan talk. As I said, I think we tried our best, and go from there. If that means the 10th pick, so be it, if it means a playoff berth, so be it, too. The difference is not what will make or break this team, there are too many variables either way to assume anything else with certainty.

You're right, though, it doesn't matter what I believe, or what you believe. Brad Stevens is our coach for the forseeable future, and we can consider ourselves very lucky to have him...and Stevens wants to win. The players want to win, too.
So, no matter how much you want to cry about spilled milk, it has absolutely zero effect on the way this team handles their business going forward.

Apparently, that means playoffs.

[Evantime34]

I don't think this is a quick fix.

Ainge has been pretty consistent in the manner he builds. Collect assets, develop the assets you have and then cash them in when a star becomes available. Even if we are winning more at this stage than one would expect he is still collecting assets, and getting them to play at their best then moving them for better assets.

The C's are playing themselves out of the lottery by being too good but that doesn't mean that winning now is a quick fix. Especially when you are winning with young guys who could be on the team long term, extra draft picks and free agents.

If you believe this team has bottom tier NBA talent then you have to admit that Stevens is a great coach. If this is the case, then Stevens has the ability to make low talent players look better than they actually are, which improves the players trade value and helps the rebuild long term.

The C's are doing what they always have done under Ainge, improve what they do have and use that to get better players.

Boston is simply using the advantages it has; cap space (which is less useful if you are so bad no one wants to play for you), coaching, a lot of draft picks and development to rebuild. These advantages are less tangible than high draft picks but they have proven to be just as effective for the C's in the past.

[PhoSita]

I'm getting sick of the labeling going on around here these days (tanker, hinkier, etc).

Thinking that it might not be the greatest thing for the franchise to make the playoffs with a roster that is still probably every bit as far away from true contention as the calculated tank job in Philly doesn't make some one a bad Celtics fan.

If you wouldn't take Embiid, right now, for anyone currently on our roster, injury and weight concerns and all, just know that you wouldn't make a very good NBA GM.

And so the labeling continues!!!

Meh.  It's a not a label.  It's a statement of my opinion about the sort of mindset a person must have to be a good NBA GM.

I'm tired of lazy epithets.  If people want to question my opinion, or the opinion of others, let them do it with some sort of reasoned argument based on a stance they are willing to state and defend.


I agree that Dangler's post above, is well stated.  However, I maintain that the biggest thing you can do as a franchise to get good players to want to play in your city for your team is to have stars already in place.  That is to say, players who are productive and exciting, players that help your team win and that are viewed as stars by their peers.

A "winning culture" doesn't attract stars.  Stars win games, and attract other stars that help them win more games, creating a "winning culture."

[D.o.s.]

Tanker!

[mef730]

I don't care who we get if guys don't buy into the system and play their role their not gonna fit in.  See all star caliber guard  rondo and untapped athletic potential Jeff green.  They were good players but didn't fit this system.  Rondo controlled too much and Jeff took naps.  This team is built around... You guessed it team.  Whomever we get they'll be evaluated first as to whether or not that player fits for this team.  If he doesn't we won't go after him.

Wait, wait, so let me get this straight: You think that, if we focus on players who believe that the team is more important than the individual and that, if they do their jobs correctly, the team will win, even if few of the individuals are actual superstars?  And you believe that a stable front office and one that knows what to look for and understands the concept of "value" is more important than over-paying for a superstar free agent?  And all this can happen for a cold weather team?

No way this could happen. It's not like there are any other New England teams that embrace that philosophy who have been massively successful over the past decade.

Mike

[Celtics4ever]

.  There will always be frustrated franchise type players who want a change of scenery, be it Love, Lebron, Harden or Cousins.  The trick is to have the chips to cash in when they become available and making your destination as attractive as possible for them. 

We will never be able to check off the nice weather part compared to some cities.   We have the fans, good size market and history though in spades.

[PhoSita]

I don't care who we get if guys don't buy into the system and play their role their not gonna fit in.  See all star caliber guard  rondo and untapped athletic potential Jeff green.  They were good players but didn't fit this system.  Rondo controlled too much and Jeff took naps.  This team is built around... You guessed it team.  Whomever we get they'll be evaluated first as to whether or not that player fits for this team.  If he doesn't we won't go after him.

Wait, wait, so let me get this straight: You think that, if we focus on players who believe that the team is more important than the individual and that, if they do their jobs correctly, the team will win, even if few of the individuals are actual superstars?  And you believe that a stable front office and one that knows what to look for and understands the concept of "value" is more important than over-paying for a superstar free agent?  And all this can happen for a cold weather team?

No way this could happen. It's not like there are any other New England teams that embrace that philosophy who have been massively successful over the past decade.

Mike

The New England team with that philosophy, and the NBA team from Texas with a similar philosophy, have both had the benefit of the best coach in their respective sports paired with a top player at the most important position in their respective sports.

The philosophy probably made a big difference in each case, especially in helping the teams sustain their success.  But what made it all possible in both cases was the pairing of the historically great coach with the historically great player.

[JohnBoy65]

Was too lazy to read all 10 pages, but I did read the OP.

I couldn't disagree more. A couple of examples: The 08 Hawks were the 8 seed and gave us an EXTREMELY difficult run. They turned out to be pretty good. The following year the Bulls gave us all we could handle and they turned out pretty good in the west. How about the 08 Griz? That was before they were considered a 'powerhouse' and they turned out pretty well too.

There's a lot of people that say playoff experience is overrated, and the 3 teams I have above prove that. Am I saying that we can win the series or we will turn into the next big-dog of the east because we're the 7th or 8th seed? No, but this experience our guys are going to get shouldn't be overlooked, and I am taking experience over the 10th pick in the draft EVERY time.

[D.o.s.]

the 2008 Atlanta Hawks featured a rookie Al Horford... and essentially no one else from the modern day squad. To say they "turned out pretty good" and that they gained "valuable playoff experience" is like saying the 2002 Celtics "turned out pretty good" and gained "valuable playoff experience" for 2008.

'Tain't the same group of fellas.

[JohnBoy65]

the 2008 Atlanta Hawks featured a rookie Al Horford... and essentially no one else from the modern day squad. To say they "turned out pretty good" and that they gained "valuable playoff experience" is like saying the 2002 Celtics "turned out pretty good" and gained "valuable playoff experience" for 2008.

'Tain't the same group of fellas.

Poorly worded my point with them. They improved each year. 37 wins in 07, 47 wins in 08, and 53 wins in 09 with much of the same team.

Of course this current team is much different, but one could argue that playoff experience pushed the team to the next level from what they were at.