Enjoy the quick fix. Danny set this franchise back.

[DarkAzcura]

You can make a good case that Marcus Smart is more valuable then both of these players.

I think you would have trouble making a good case vs. Noel and this is coming from a guy that loves Marcus and appreciates his intangibles.

http://www.csnne.com/blog/celtics-talk/noel-returned-all-star-break-confidence

He does most of the same things and fill up the stat sheet.  I'd would love to sign him once he is a free agent and bring him home to Boston.  He and Marcus would be a nice pairing.

As for Danny setting the franchise back, I think that he has not.   We won a title and were relevant for a few years.   We are in the playoff hunt again.   He is one of the best GMs in the sport.   I am sure he has a plan, if not a a plan B and C in the works.   

Sully and Oly also have some considerable room left in their ceilings.

  This is a falsehood, both are already skilled and neither has a lot of athletic base to improve on.   

Oly has more than Sully, who is already battling career ending habits.  Oly could get confidence and it would help him.   Sully could lose weight but he is still the same poor athletes that was in the bottom five of his combine in many of the areas tested.   

Only blatant homers, and Tommy is not one of them think Sully has a huge upside at this point.  Even Gorman when recently interviewed was not exactly gushing about his play and Stevens has made it clear that he is a reserve and that he will not alter our defensive DNA and he is being used for rebounding.  Ainge has served him notice and despite being out and being told this it does not look like he has been eating salad.   He refuses to take responsibility blaming it more on his body than his lack of discipline.

You know there is a reason why I separated Smart and Young from Olynyk and Sullinger in my post. Back to back sentences and all. I clearly phrased it as Smart and Young having the highest ceilings and while their ceilings are more limited, Olynyk and Sullinger haven't reached their's yet either. High ceiling =/= being athletic. Your second paragraph just proves my point about Sully. Everything you just wrote is the reason why he has more room in his ceiling. He is going to have to put the work in to shed the weight to reach his potential. Olynyk's ceiling is based around adding strength and continuing to up his mental confidence. There is still plenty of room for them to grow as productive players in the NBA and just like athletic players who need to develop a skill set, nothing is a guarantee. That doesn't make their potential any less, though.

[PhoSita]

My point is this. Philly has all these top picks. IF they all turn out to be good not only will they not get enough playing time BUT how many leave when their rookie deals are up? If you keep losing year after year they will ALL leave. That is why I have changed my mind about tanking. You need to show improvement PERIOD. The teams that lose year after year and get top draft picks don't create dynasties. I don't want to win I want to KEEP the dynasty going!!!!!!!!!!

I personally think the first mistake a lot of GM's make(and the fans get too caught up in this too)is "trying to build a dynasty".

for all the "dynasties" out there I'm sure every GM/franchise of those dynasties will tell you - "ohh yeah, we planned this perfectly...."

yes, everybody would love to have their team be considered a dynasty. but in reality, it's all about timing, luck & a lot more luck.

fans and GM's shouldn't concern themselves with dynasty-building. it's an exercise in futility because for the most part - they just happen.

Good post.  Build the best team that you can muster.  If that team becomes a good playoff team that can win 50+ games and win at least a round in the playoffs, then we've got a success.

There's no guarantee a team will win a title, never mind multiple ones.  The best you can hope for is a team that gives itself a chance.

Right.

But the best way to give yourself a chance is to be in the mix year after year.

Occasionally a team like the 08 Celtics comes together and immediately wins.

Then you have teams like the Mavericks, that won 50 games a year, year after year, and finally had it pay off in 2011.

The best chance for the Celtics to win another title will be to put together a team that can win 50+ games and compete in the playoffs for 5-8 years in a row with the same core player or three.

[Jonny CC]

This franchise could have had an easy path to success. You people bash me for comparing the situation to Philly but let's take the homer glasses off and be honest with ourselves. Is there anyone on our current roster you would rather have than Noel or Embiid? Absolutely the answer is no. How did the Sixers get there? A strong number of tank trades and tank moves. Bass had no business staying. They had no business getting IT. They had no business making most of the moves they did. Crowder is going to be an overpaid bum next year and we will probably pay him since the Green Teamers will cry after making the playoffs.

The "best" part of making the playoffs? We now get to see what value combining the 15th and 25th picks in a trade would have!!! Awesome! They'll never fire the guy just like the Bruins would never fire Sinden but this is awful for the franchise that desperately needs top picks because they'll never be a top free agent destination.

The C's will be better than Philly for years to come.  Ainge has provided a winning team with a coach who is a perfect fit.  It has nothing to do with "homer glasses"...I know a good team when I see one.  Are the C's going to get Banner 18 this year?...Nope.  But I think they are in a better position than Philly.  A bunch of top 10 picks doesn't guarantee anything. 

[danglertx]

Tanking is a false hope that does nothing but kill the credibility of your organization.  The same teams are in the lottery year after year on the outside prayer they get a superstar to change their franchise.  That happens once every four or five years maybe?

So you want to lose year after year after year hoping to get lucky?  Not me. 

The best way to get into contention is exactly what Ainge has done.  Try to acquire assets that can be moved for a disgruntled vet that won't resign where he is while putting together a team that is good enough to attract a vet difference maker to sign in free agency. 

You think any player is signing with Philly if they have an option to sign with a decent team?  Especially with the salary cap going up, nobody worth anything will sign in Philly for years and years.

The Pelicans lucked out and got a guy who will perhaps be the best player in the NBA in the next few years and they STILL haven't made the playoffs.  They probably won't before Davis either leaves or has to sign a new contract.  What if he says, "hey I'm not staying in New Orleans so you might as well trade me."  What team is in a position to land him going into his prime?

That is the most efficient way to get better.  Have assets to make a move when those opportunities present themselves.

[fandrew]

I don't know what is meant by "quick fix" here. Danny made moves to improve this franchise that have shown actual improvements to the play of the team as a whole.

He brought in players that can play in the style of today's NBA.
He is developing assets in the D-League.
He has Coach Brad Stevens developing assets on the team.
He has collected trade exceptions and made more cap space for this summer for signings and S&T's.
He has collected more Draft pick assets.

He has never had any interest in fielding a team that is a loser because they don't try hard. He has never had any interest in having a team that is under .500 make the playoffs. He wants a developing team that win or lose, plays hard every night and works to get better. And they have.

He made great moves by ridding the team of pieces that did not fit with his future plans, and only hurt Stevens ability to set the culture and style of his team. He got great pieces in return. I hope he [is able to] resigns Crowder and Jorebko this offseason to good contracts. They are good pieces for this team moving forward.

Everyone knows that Danny does not want a sub .500 playoff bound team. And as of now the Celtics record is 37-42, with a winning percentage of .468. At best we could be a team that goes 40-42 on the season with a winning percentage of .487. Again not really what Danny wants.
 
But the Celtics have seen drastic improvement this year. In the 43 games since the Jeff Green trade, we have a winning record of 24-19 and a winning percentage of .558. In the 28 games since the trade deadline we have a winning record of 17-11, with a winning percentage of .607.

This is without a real star or rim protector. This is in the Eastern Conference. Many state that the Celtics have overachieved this year, and I disagree. We simply got better as the year went on. We got better by removing players that were not interested in playing in this new system and created problems with their attitudes and styles of play. We got better by adding players that while not star players, are impact players and fit this system almost perfectly. We got better through player development with Zeller, Bradley and Smart improving significantly over the course of the year, both individually and as team players within the Brad Stevens system.

So I cannot see how this is a set back. This is a team that has seen a lot of changes this year. And through it all the Celtics have persevered and developed individually and as a team. They bought in to the system, to themselves, and to the culture of wanting to win above all else. We have a team that was a bottom of the league team that has turned around and become a mid seeded playoff type team, though they will be likely seeded 7th or 8th. They have a winning record in the last 2.5 months.

I can only imagine that had Danny been able to make these moves in the offseason, we would be looking at a 2-4 seeded team in the East this year (mostly because Cleveland sucked for so much of the year, their record should be significantly better than it is). Still with holes to fill and room to grow, but moving in the right direction.

[slamtheking]

This franchise could have had an easy path to success. You people bash me for comparing the situation to Philly but let's take the homer glasses off and be honest with ourselves. Is there anyone on our current roster you would rather have than Noel or Embiid? Absolutely the answer is no. How did the Sixers get there? A strong number of tank trades and tank moves. Bass had no business staying. They had no business getting IT. They had no business making most of the moves they did. Crowder is going to be an overpaid bum next year and we will probably pay him since the Green Teamers will cry after making the playoffs.

The "best" part of making the playoffs? We now get to see what value combining the 15th and 25th picks in a trade would have!!! Awesome! They'll never fire the guy just like the Bruins would never fire Sinden but this is awful for the franchise that desperately needs top picks because they'll never be a top free agent destination.

saw the thread title and figured it had to be one of 3 posters here -- guessed right.

[LarBrd33]

I disagree wholeheartedly with the premise of this thread.

The only way to get better is by actually winning and improving in the standings which the Celtics have done.

That's how you acquire free agents, by winning.

Good players don't want to come to a sucky team that's rebuilding for years on end.

No thanks!

Free agents want to play with other great players.  Boston doesn't have any.  If I'm a young free agent, I'd rather play with Nerlens Noel, Joel Embiid and DeAngelo Russell and try to build something spectacular in Philly. 

But I have faith in Ainge.  We should have cap space to sign one impact guy.  Hopefully Ainge can use the first round sweep as a selling point.. "With your help, we can maybe take our first round opponent to 6 games!... assuming they don't restructure the playoffs... in which case, we project in the the late lotto next year"...   But really, I believe in Ainge.  Our most likely path towards a star is through trade.  The good news is that we have like 7 or 8 guys who are averaging double figures right now so maybe our role players have inflated trade value.  Maybe a trade package of Bradley, Smart, Sully, Oly, #15, #26, Brooklyn's 2016 and Brooklyn's 2018 can entice a team like Sacramento to trade DeMarcus Cousins.  We'd probably get outbid by a team with a top 5 pick, tho.

[PhoSita]

Tanking is a false hope that does nothing but kill the credibility of your organization. 

What does tanking have to do with credibility? 

Tanking might kill your ability to attract big time free agents, but being mediocre does, too.

The only thing that raises an organization's "credibility" as far as attracting free agents is to have elite talent already in place. 

Nobody is going to go out of their way to join the Celtics simply because they tried hard and didn't give up even though most of their opponents have better players at the top of the rotation.

[DarkAzcura]

I disagree wholeheartedly with the premise of this thread.

The only way to get better is by actually winning and improving in the standings which the Celtics have done.

That's how you acquire free agents, by winning.

Good players don't want to come to a sucky team that's rebuilding for years on end.

No thanks!

Free agents want to play with other great players.  Boston doesn't have any.  If I'm a young free agent, I'd rather play with Nerlens Noel, Joel Embiid and DeAngelo Russell and try to build something spectacular in Philly. 

But I have faith in Ainge.  We should have cap space to sign one impact guy.  Hopefully Ainge can use the first round sweep as a selling point.. "With your help, we can maybe take our first round opponent to 6 games!... assuming they don't restructure the playoffs... in which case, we project in the the late lotto next year"...   But really, I believe in Ainge.  Our most likely path towards a star is through trade.  The good news is that we have like 7 or 8 guys who are averaging double figures right now so maybe our role players have inflated trade value.  Maybe a trade package of Bradley, Smart, Sully, Oly, #15, #26, Brooklyn's 2016 and Brooklyn's 2018 can entice a team like Sacramento to trade DeMarcus Cousins.  We'd probably get outbid by a team with a top 5 pick, tho.

Cousins is a dominant center, but Ainge would never offer this in a million years anyway.

That trade would basically make the Celtics start from ground zero and have no flexibility to work with anything. We'd be much worse off. It's not all about having superstar upon superstar. Fit, system, and setting the right attitude matters far more. We'll worry about bringing in "top talent" later when it is viable and can be had for a reasonable offer.  Shouldn't this season be a lesson for that? Spurs last year? Atlanta this year? So many teams in this league are proving how false it is to just get a superstar at any cost and hope for the best. It doesn't work. If it did the Kings would have been in the playoffs already. I have faith in Ainge to make things work more than the King's management obviously, but if you trade every single impact player on this team for Cousins, you are just putting him in far more of a frustrating situation.

[celticsclay]

I disagree wholeheartedly with the premise of this thread.

The only way to get better is by actually winning and improving in the standings which the Celtics have done.

That's how you acquire free agents, by winning.

Good players don't want to come to a sucky team that's rebuilding for years on end.

No thanks!

Free agents want to play with other great players.  Boston doesn't have any.  If I'm a young free agent, I'd rather play with Nerlens Noel, Joel Embiid and DeAngelo Russell and try to build something spectacular in Philly. 

But I have faith in Ainge.  We should have cap space to sign one impact guy.  Hopefully Ainge can use the first round sweep as a selling point.. "With your help, we can maybe take our first round opponent to 6 games!... assuming they don't restructure the playoffs... in which case, we project in the the late lotto next year"...   But really, I believe in Ainge.  Our most likely path towards a star is through trade.  The good news is that we have like 7 or 8 guys who are averaging double figures right now so maybe our role players have inflated trade value.  Maybe a trade package of Bradley, Smart, Sully, Oly, #15, #26, Brooklyn's 2016 and Brooklyn's 2018 can entice a team like Sacramento to trade DeMarcus Cousins.  We'd probably get outbid by a team with a top 5 pick, tho.

Yesterday you were channeling your inner Danny Ainge, today we get to hear you channel your inner NBA young player. I guarantee not all the NBA players are as enamored with Embiid and Noel as you (If any). Who is to say that playing along side a guy next year that has played a total of 18 college games in the previous two years is really all that appealing? You could make an argument that Stevens getting some of the best ever play out of Bradley, Bass, Turner and others has appeal to an NBA player that wants to get their value up and score a big contract.

[Ilikesports17]

I disagree wholeheartedly with the premise of this thread.

The only way to get better is by actually winning and improving in the standings which the Celtics have done.

That's how you acquire free agents, by winning.

Good players don't want to come to a sucky team that's rebuilding for years on end.

No thanks!

Free agents want to play with other great players.  Boston doesn't have any.  If I'm a young free agent, I'd rather play with Nerlens Noel, Joel Embiid and DeAngelo Russell and try to build something spectacular in Philly. 

But I have faith in Ainge.  We should have cap space to sign one impact guy.  Hopefully Ainge can use the first round sweep as a selling point.. "With your help, we can maybe take our first round opponent to 6 games!... assuming they don't restructure the playoffs... in which case, we project in the the late lotto next year"...   But really, I believe in Ainge.  Our most likely path towards a star is through trade.  The good news is that we have like 7 or 8 guys who are averaging double figures right now so maybe our role players have inflated trade value.  Maybe a trade package of Bradley, Smart, Sully, Oly, #15, #26, Brooklyn's 2016 and Brooklyn's 2018 can entice a team like Sacramento to trade DeMarcus Cousins.  We'd probably get outbid by a team with a top 5 pick, tho.

No one wants to come play with unproven 20 year olds. Lebron basically made the cavs get rid of the most promising rookie in recent memory because he wanted established vets.

Now nor do stars want to come to decent teams who okay hard but they'd rather join a team with proven nba players that actually is trying to win than one with a lot of guys who will probably be really good and a dude who might be good when he comes he from europe

[LarBrd33]

I disagree wholeheartedly with the premise of this thread.

The only way to get better is by actually winning and improving in the standings which the Celtics have done.

That's how you acquire free agents, by winning.

Good players don't want to come to a sucky team that's rebuilding for years on end.

No thanks!

Free agents want to play with other great players.  Boston doesn't have any.  If I'm a young free agent, I'd rather play with Nerlens Noel, Joel Embiid and DeAngelo Russell and try to build something spectacular in Philly. 

But I have faith in Ainge.  We should have cap space to sign one impact guy.  Hopefully Ainge can use the first round sweep as a selling point.. "With your help, we can maybe take our first round opponent to 6 games!... assuming they don't restructure the playoffs... in which case, we project in the the late lotto next year"...   But really, I believe in Ainge.  Our most likely path towards a star is through trade.  The good news is that we have like 7 or 8 guys who are averaging double figures right now so maybe our role players have inflated trade value.  Maybe a trade package of Bradley, Smart, Sully, Oly, #15, #26, Brooklyn's 2016 and Brooklyn's 2018 can entice a team like Sacramento to trade DeMarcus Cousins.  We'd probably get outbid by a team with a top 5 pick, tho.

Cousins is a dominant center, but Ainge would never offer this in a million years anyway.

I know he wouldn't... which is one of the main reasons we're not getting Cousins. 

Plenty of teams can easily outbid our best offer.

[DesertDweller]

I agree that we should have went for pick 9 or 10 unless we really thought we could make noise in the playoffs... I think we could maybe beat the Hawks, but even if we did we'd have to place Cleveland at some point and would definitely lose to them. Either way, I think a Stanley Johnson or Justice Winslow (if we were pick 9 in theory we could maybe move up to pick 6 or 7) would help us long term more than this playoff run, but I hope I'm wrong.

You don't think that with all the draft picks and other assets we own that we can't do even better than a nine or ten pick in the upcoming draft besides being where we are now, or did I misunderstand what you were saying??

[spikelovetheCelts]

This franchise could have had an easy path to success. You people bash me for comparing the situation to Philly but let's take the homer glasses off and be honest with ourselves. Is there anyone on our current roster you would rather have than Noel or Embiid? Absolutely the answer is no. How did the Sixers get there? A strong number of tank trades and tank moves. Bass had no business staying. They had no business getting IT. They had no business making most of the moves they did. Crowder is going to be an overpaid bum next year and we will probably pay him since the Green Teamers will cry after making the playoffs.

The "best" part of making the playoffs? We now get to see what value combining the 15th and 25th picks in a trade would have!!! Awesome! They'll never fire the guy just like the Bruins would never fire Sinden but this is awful for the franchise that desperately needs top picks because they'll never be a top free agent destination.

saw the thread title and figured it had to be one of 3 posters here -- guessed right.

Rehashing the rehash. Boston is way ahead of Philly. We have all but a rim protector and we will get one this year. Noel is the only proven player.  Embrid  could be the next Sam Bowie.  We have cap space a major TPE, our Picks. The Nets  Picks may be in the Lottery both times.  We also have a coach people will want to play for moving forward. I look for to Danny's next move with Great anticipation. 

[Future Celtics Owner]

I called 98.5 "The Adam Jones show" and talked about the draft. I probably called 1 month or so ago. Anyways no one one the show knew enough about the draft to even be aloud to talk. I mentioned Myles Turner and they only knew that he played for Texas......FYI the show was about taking the draft over the playoffs.