Zach Lowe Speculates the Jazz could want Bradley. Would you trade him for #12 ?

[MBunge]

I think there was already a thread about this.

Yeah I'd do it... especially if we could get them to eat Bradley's salary.  That would be a no-brainer.

Ainge could get nearly any team in the league with cap space to "eat" Bradley's deal. It's not a bad deal.

Even Zach Lowe calls it a nice deal and he's about as well informed a guy as there is in the NBA.

I mean that's the thing though... getting the #12 pick would be half of it.  The other half would be freeing up another 8 mil in cap space to sign a replacement player for Bradley.  I think Bradley is a fine player, but I'm sure you could fairly easily get a comparable one for the money he makes.

So then the question isn't "Would you trade Bradley for #12"... it becomes "would you trade Bradley for #12 and a free agent like Arron Afflalo"

I see where you're heading, but Ainge would have to be pretty certain he had "free agent X" in the bag to round out the entire value.

Well we are in a unique position this summer.  It's basically the first time in the history of the franchise that we have cap space to offer a max contract.  We have something like 26 mil in cap space.  But that's if you assume we let Bass, Crowder, and Jerebko walk.  It also doesn't include the money we'll need to pay our 2015 rookies which is a few mil.    So I'll let you decide what we're looking at, but it should still be a significant chunk of money to go after a quality player or two.

I guess Ainge would have to decide if freeing up another 8 mil would be beneficial.  Does he want to put himself in position to have 34 mil in cap space... and be able to call up Kevin Love and say, Kevin... We got a max contract waiting for you... plus feel free to convince another free agent to join along with you cuz we got them covered as well.   It would be a long-shot, but having 34 mil in cap space (and maybe even more if we stretch the final year of Gerald Wallace or give up a pick to Philly to have them take him off our hands for a few months) would at least give you a fighting chance of signing a couple guys like Kevin Love and Marc Gasol as a package deal.

Or maybe it just affords you the luxury to say, "Ok, we're gonna offer Asik 10 mil.  Offer Greg Monroe 12 mil... and still have another 10-12 mil to go after a Bradley replacement... preferably one with appropriate size for the position so we can consider starting Thomas"

Check out the list:  http://hoopshype.com/free_agency_2015.htm   ... Think you could find a suitable Bradley replacement for 8 mil?  I mean, you might not even need a SG if the plan is to start Thomas + Smart ... (or go after Ty Lawson via trade this summer as some have suggested... Lawson and Smart could be our back court and we could use the Bradley money towards upgrading a position of need)

If the Jazz offer #12 for Bradley and can absorb his salary, I think it's a no-brainer.   I doubt that offer will be on the table, though.

I see what you're saying. It certainly carries its own risk though.

Boston could certainly strike out and end up with a lesser talented team next season.

There are risks.  But regardless of how it impacts the cap situation, if you can get #12 for a role player like Bradley, it's probably a smart move.  I think that's about as high as you're ever going to be able to sell Bradley for.  Teams were offering late 1sts for him at the deadline.

Even if Bradley is only a role player, and he hasn't even entered his prime yet, I'd rather have that than Hilton Armstrong.

Mike

[chambers]

I think there was already a thread about this.

Yeah I'd do it... especially if we could get them to eat Bradley's salary.  That would be a no-brainer.

Ainge could get nearly any team in the league with cap space to "eat" Bradley's deal. It's not a bad deal.

Even Zach Lowe calls it a nice deal and he's about as well informed a guy as there is in the NBA.

I mean that's the thing though... getting the #12 pick would be half of it.  The other half would be freeing up another 8 mil in cap space to sign a replacement player for Bradley.  I think Bradley is a fine player, but I'm sure you could fairly easily get a comparable one for the money he makes.

So then the question isn't "Would you trade Bradley for #12"... it becomes "would you trade Bradley for #12 and a free agent like Arron Afflalo"

I see where you're heading, but Ainge would have to be pretty certain he had "free agent X" in the bag to round out the entire value.

Well we are in a unique position this summer.  It's basically the first time in the history of the franchise that we have cap space to offer a max contract.  We have something like 26 mil in cap space.  But that's if you assume we let Bass, Crowder, and Jerebko walk.  It also doesn't include the money we'll need to pay our 2015 rookies which is a few mil.    So I'll let you decide what we're looking at, but it should still be a significant chunk of money to go after a quality player or two.

I guess Ainge would have to decide if freeing up another 8 mil would be beneficial.  Does he want to put himself in position to have 34 mil in cap space... and be able to call up Kevin Love and say, Kevin... We got a max contract waiting for you... plus feel free to convince another free agent to join along with you cuz we got them covered as well.   It would be a long-shot, but having 34 mil in cap space (and maybe even more if we stretch the final year of Gerald Wallace or give up a pick to Philly to have them take him off our hands for a few months) would at least give you a fighting chance of signing a couple guys like Kevin Love and Marc Gasol as a package deal.

Or maybe it just affords you the luxury to say, "Ok, we're gonna offer Asik 10 mil.  Offer Greg Monroe 12 mil... and still have another 10-12 mil to go after a Bradley replacement... preferably one with appropriate size for the position so we can consider starting Thomas"

Check out the list:  http://hoopshype.com/free_agency_2015.htm   ... Think you could find a suitable Bradley replacement for 8 mil?  I mean, you might not even need a SG if the plan is to start Thomas + Smart ... (or go after Ty Lawson via trade this summer as some have suggested... Lawson and Smart could be our back court and we could use the Bradley money towards upgrading a position of need)

If the Jazz offer #12 for Bradley and can absorb his salary, I think it's a no-brainer.   I doubt that offer will be on the table, though.

I see what you're saying. It certainly carries its own risk though.

Boston could certainly strike out and end up with a lesser talented team next season.

There are risks.  But regardless of how it impacts the cap situation, if you can get #12 for a role player like Bradley, it's probably a smart move.  I think that's about as high as you're ever going to be able to sell Bradley for.  Teams were offering late 1sts for him at the deadline.

Even if Bradley is only a role player, and he hasn't even entered his prime yet, I'd rather have that than Hilton Armstrong.

Mike

The idea is that we try to get the next Kwahi or Paul George with the#12 pick.
Or you combine the #12 and #13 (for example) to move up to the #7 if there's a guy you think has franchise potential.

Avery Bradley is an elite role player and we got him with the #19 pick. If you can sign him to a solid contract and then trade him in an attempt to get a player with more potential than him then it's a risk that Danny will certainly look at.

It's either that, or use him as part of a package to sign and trade a player- but how often do those opportunities come up? Is Bradley really that irreplaceable on this roster with Smart and Thomas here?

I understand your point but just reiterating why a move like this potentially big for our young team. Marcus Smart needs more help. The Celtics aren't winning a championship with Marcus Smart and Avery Bradley as the starting front court unless we get Lebron or multiple top 15 players.

[Lucky17]

Unless I'm mistaken, the Celtics will only have that cap space if they renounce not only the rights to Bass and Jerebko, but also the MLE, and the two large TPEs ($12.9 mil, $7.7 mil) from the Rondo and Prince trades.

I'd much rather Ainge use those other assets, rather than chase cap space this offseason.

Returning to the Bradley to Utah scenario, I'd much rather send Bradley, Sullinger, and picks to Utah for Derrick Favors. A long shot, perhaps, but Sullinger as a stretch four next to Gobert, plus Bradley, plus picks, seems like a decent haul for Utah if they decide that Favors isn't untouchable.

[YoungOne87]

if we can combine the pick with some of our others to trade up for winslow I would think about it

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I gave this thing some thought as it is VERY BORING at work right now.

Why would Utah do this? Didn't they just not only drafted Exum, but signed Alex Burks long term. Why would they give up their #12 for basically a player they don't need?

[Lucky17]

I gave this thing some thought as it is VERY BORING at work right now.

Why would Utah do this? Didn't they just not only drafted Exum, but signed Alex Burks long term. Why would they give up their #12 for basically a player they don't need?

Lowe's premise is that Bradley works as a much better complement to both Exum and Burks than Trey Burke, even if such a move results in Burks becoming a 6th man.

Edit: Also, Lowe believes that Bradley's age and contract situation makes him an ideal target for a Jazz team that needs to add another piece to contend for a playoff spot next season.

[Csfan1984]

Unless I'm mistaken, the Celtics will only have that cap space if they renounce not only the rights to Bass and Jerebko, but also the MLE, and the two large TPEs ($12.9 mil, $7.7 mil) from the Rondo and Prince trades.

I'd much rather Ainge use those other assets, rather than chase cap space this offseason.

Returning to the Bradley to Utah scenario, I'd much rather send Bradley, Sullinger, and picks to Utah for Derrick Favors. A long shot, perhaps, but Sullinger as a stretch four next to Gobert, plus Bradley, plus picks, seems like a decent haul for Utah if they decide that Favors isn't untouchable.

AB, Sully and picks for Favors is huge over pay even if you take picks out. Perhaps if the teams swapped their picks and C's also got Hood. Say AB, Sully, Philly 2015 2nd and 15th pick for Favors, Hood and 12.

[jpotter33]

Unless I'm mistaken, the Celtics will only have that cap space if they renounce not only the rights to Bass and Jerebko, but also the MLE, and the two large TPEs ($12.9 mil, $7.7 mil) from the Rondo and Prince trades.

I'd much rather Ainge use those other assets, rather than chase cap space this offseason.

Returning to the Bradley to Utah scenario, I'd much rather send Bradley, Sullinger, and picks to Utah for Derrick Favors. A long shot, perhaps, but Sullinger as a stretch four next to Gobert, plus Bradley, plus picks, seems like a decent haul for Utah if they decide that Favors isn't untouchable.

I don't know much about Favors, but I do know that he's a defensive big still with upside who I believe is locked up for awhile now. Could he be our defensive big next to Olynyk at the 4? If so, I'd do Bradley, Sullinger, and the Clips pick for him easily.

[loco_91]

#12 is not a good enough pick for Bradley.

IMO drafting late lottery is a big risk.

Here are all the #12 picks since 2000:

2014 Dario Saric
2013 Steven Adams
2012 Jeremy Lamb
2011 Alec Burks
2010 Xavier Henry
2009 Gerald Henderson
2008 Jason Thompson
2007 Thaddeus Young
2006 Hilton Armstrong
2005 Yaroslav Korolev
2004 Robert Swift
2003 Nick Collison
2002 Melvin Ely
2001 Vladimir Radmanovic
2000 Etan Thomas

Not exactly a list of worldbeaters taken at the #12 spot.
Now if we trade Bradley plus something else for a top 8 pick, I'm on board with that scenario.

I think lotto picks are generally more valuable than good players on reasonable non-max deals. A guy like Bradley can slightly outperform his salary, but that's about it. You also have to factor in the risk that he gets injured, leaving you with lots of dead salary. On the other hand, a lotto pick with upside has potential to greatly outperform his rookie-scale salary, and even if he doesn't, you're not on the hook for much money at all. Then if you get really lucky, you end up with a guy that can continue providing great value even on his second, max contract.

Basically, there are two types of valuable contracts in this league: rookies and true max players. A guy like Bradley can play like a $12m player on a $8m cotract, which is nice, but nowhere near as nice as a lotto pick who can play like a $10m player on a $2m contract. That's more valuable than anything except for a true superstar, who gets paid only $20m but could command $30m+++ if there weren't salary caps.

[Celts Fan 508]

Unless I'm mistaken, the Celtics will only have that cap space if they renounce not only the rights to Bass and Jerebko, but also the MLE, and the two large TPEs ($12.9 mil, $7.7 mil) from the Rondo and Prince trades.

I'd much rather Ainge use those other assets, rather than chase cap space this offseason.

Returning to the Bradley to Utah scenario, I'd much rather send Bradley, Sullinger, and picks to Utah for Derrick Favors. A long shot, perhaps, but Sullinger as a stretch four next to Gobert, plus Bradley, plus picks, seems like a decent haul for Utah if they decide that Favors isn't untouchable.

AB, Sully and picks for Favors is huge over pay even if you take picks out. Perhaps if the teams swapped their picks and C's also got Hood. Say AB, Sully, Philly 2015 2nd and 15th pick for Favors, Hood and 12.

You are vastly underrating Favors.  Favors is a 23 year old averaging 16.4 points, 8.2 boards, and 1.4 blocks a game playing only 31 minutes a game, based on 36 minutes a game his numbers go to 18.8/9.4/2.  Again he is only 23 but he has 5 Offensive Win Share and a 3.1 Defensive Win Share for a total of 8.1 Win Share (which is great!!!!) this season.  He would be a huge addition for the Celtics as a scorer and rim protector, especially because he is now signed long term to an affordable deal.  There is no way Utah would trade him in my opinion.

[spikelovetheCelts]

Unless I'm mistaken, the Celtics will only have that cap space if they renounce not only the rights to Bass and Jerebko, but also the MLE, and the two large TPEs ($12.9 mil, $7.7 mil) from the Rondo and Prince trades.

I'd much rather Ainge use those other assets, rather than chase cap space this offseason.

Returning to the Bradley to Utah scenario, I'd much rather send Bradley, Sullinger, and picks to Utah for Derrick Favors. A long shot, perhaps, but Sullinger as a stretch four next to Gobert, plus Bradley, plus picks, seems like a decent haul for Utah if they decide that Favors isn't untouchable.

AB, Sully and picks for Favors is huge over pay even if you take picks out. Perhaps if the teams swapped their picks and C's also got Hood. Say AB, Sully, Philly 2015 2nd and 15th pick for Favors, Hood and 12.

You are vastly underrating Favors.  Favors is a 23 year old averaging 16.4 points, 8.2 boards, and 1.4 blocks a game playing only 31 minutes a game, based on 36 minutes a game his numbers go to 18.8/9.4/2.  Again he is only 23 but he has 5 Offensive Win Share and a 3.1 Defensive Win Share for a total of 8.1 Win Share (which is great!!!!) this season.  He would be a huge addition for the Celtics as a scorer and rim protector, especially because he is now signed long term to an affordable deal.  There is no way Utah would trade him in my opinion.

Utah is not trading Favors. Bradley is a Celtic at least through next year with his friendly contract and with the way he is progressing. He is worth more than a 12 pick. He is just 24 guys.

[boscel33]

I didn't see in the article where it woul be Bradley and the Clippers pick.  I read it as Bradley for the Jazz pick. This could easily help them pry Noel from Philly and still have a first this year, 12/13 for Noel and a second, and with the Clips pick, Hunter.

[footey]

If we could use Bradley in a package to trade up and get Porzingis, I am all in. No offense, Avery, I really like your game, but 7 footers with his skill set come around very rarely. Guys like you are always available.

[mctyson]

In a heartbeat. 

LOL

This is comical.  Bradley was drafted a few spots lower than 12.  He is a proven NBA talent, 24 years old, made All NBA 2nd defensive team, and you would trade him "in a heartbeat" for the 12th pick in the draft???

The obsession with drafts/college players on this board sometimes is insane.

[AidaCelt]

In a heartbeat. 

LOL

This is comical.  Bradley was drafted a few spots lower than 12.  He is a proven NBA talent, 24 years old, made All NBA 2nd defensive team, and you would trade him "in a heartbeat" for the 12th pick in the draft???

The obsession with drafts/college players on this board sometimes is insane.

100% with you here. I understand the odd person be enamoured with the draft and the "possibilities" this would present but I didn't realise so many would feel the same way. Would I make the trade, no... but I would consider it. To do it in a heartbeat, no thought... well... I don't like to put down other people's opinions because they're their opinions, but that's plain ridiculous!