Zach Lowe Speculates the Jazz could want Bradley. Would you trade him for #12 ?

[mahcus smaht]

The grass is always greener...

I'm not sure it's the no brainier some are making it out to be. We also add the Clippers pick?

Even Zach Lowe says its a "long shot".

Respectfully the grass might not always be greener but what is being discussed is to turn Bradley, a former 19th pick and a pick in the mid to late 20's into a 12th pick. Historically speaking the grass for a 12th pick is much greener than the 19th or 25th.

As you said though the trade is by no means a no brainier but a trade like that could lead to you ending up with a player that far exceeds their draft value. This is the range where the higher risk players drop out of the top 10 or the first wave of really good players that may not having the highest ceiling can no longer be ignored.

2011 Klay Thompson 11th Pick
2013 Shabazz Muhammad 14th Pick (Looks like he can score effectively at the NBA level)
2013 Steven Adams 12th Pick(Effective NBA Center)
2010 Paul George 10th Pick
2013 Giannis Antetokunmpo 15th Pick
2011 Kawhi Leonard 15th Pick

I think you are right that there are a lot of quality players available at 10-15 that arent around at 19 or 26. This year Turner, Oubre, Poeltl, Lyles etc could all be very good pros.

However, you cant think of AB as a 19th pick anymore, just like Jimmy Butler isnt a 30th pick and Anthony Bennett isnt a #1 pick. You have to look at it as a player. I think at 12 we could well get a far superior player to AB we could also get a scrub.

Now having picks 11 and 12 would allow us to take two risks like we did with Sully/Melo except at a higher talent threshold. Say Turner, Oubre. Say one works out Id be pretty happy with that.

Not sure its a no brainer but you would really have to consider it.

[vjcsmoke]

#12 is not a good enough pick for Bradley.

IMO drafting late lottery is a big risk.

Here are all the #12 picks since 2000:

2014 Dario Saric
2013 Steven Adams
2012 Jeremy Lamb
2011 Alec Burks
2010 Xavier Henry
2009 Gerald Henderson
2008 Jason Thompson
2007 Thaddeus Young
2006 Hilton Armstrong
2005 Yaroslav Korolev
2004 Robert Swift
2003 Nick Collison
2002 Melvin Ely
2001 Vladimir Radmanovic
2000 Etan Thomas

Not exactly a list of worldbeaters taken at the #12 spot.
Now if we trade Bradley plus something else for a top 8 pick, I'm on board with that scenario.

[BleedGreen1989]

I think there was already a thread about this.

Yeah I'd do it... especially if we could get them to eat Bradley's salary.  That would be a no-brainer.

Ainge could get nearly any team in the league with cap space to "eat" Bradley's deal. It's not a bad deal.

Even Zach Lowe calls it a nice deal and he's about as well informed a guy as there is in the NBA.

[wdleehi]

Trade just Bradley the night of the draft if a player is there that Ainge likes better.



Otherwise, why trade Bradley as he is becoming more attractive?  Teams are starting to ask about him.  Let's see if his value grows or use him as a important piece to grab a better vet player, a known quantity.

[Smartacus]

The grass is always greener...

I'm not sure it's the no brainier some are making it out to be. We also add the Clippers pick?

Even Zach Lowe says its a "long shot".

Respectfully the grass might not always be greener but what is being discussed is to turn Bradley, a former 19th pick and a pick in the mid to late 20's into a 12th pick. Historically speaking the grass for a 12th pick is much greener than the 19th or 25th.

As you said though the trade is by no means a no brainier but a trade like that could lead to you ending up with a player that far exceeds their draft value. This is the range where the higher risk players drop out of the top 10 or the first wave of really good players that may not having the highest ceiling can no longer be ignored.

2011 Klay Thompson 11th Pick
2013 Shabazz Muhammad 14th Pick (Looks like he can score effectively at the NBA level)
2013 Steven Adams 12th Pick(Effective NBA Center)
2010 Paul George 10th Pick
2013 Giannis Antetokunmpo 15th Pick
2011 Kawhi Leonard 15th Pick

I think you are right that there are a lot of quality players available at 10-15 that arent around at 19 or 26. This year Turner, Oubre, Poeltl, Lyles etc could all be very good pros.

However, you cant think of AB as a 19th pick anymore, just like Jimmy Butler isnt a 30th pick and Anthony Bennett isnt a #1 pick. You have to look at it as a player. I think at 12 we could well get a far superior player to AB we could also get a scrub.

Now having picks 11 and 12 would allow us to take two risks like we did with Sully/Melo except at a higher talent threshold. Say Turner, Oubre. Say one works out Id be pretty happy with that.

Not sure its a no brainer but you would really have to consider it.

Don't disagree that you need to update values although with that contract I say AB's still got similar value that to when he was drafted, not overpaid but he's paid about as much can be expected for a specialist which has similar value to a blue chipper on a rookie scale contract.

[BornReady]

I say yes only because Bradley kind of reached his ceiling from what we know of him

He is a defensive energiser that can turn it on in crucial moments,
defensive hustler (a guy that isnt the most physically gifted or athletic but is going to keep coming at you with energy)
He is a 3 and D undersized SG that can also drive it in
And he is not a playmaker or PG but can play great defence against the elite PG of the league

Getting hood + 12th pick for Bradley and clippers pick
Is a good way to either move up or try the back to back approach but in the lottery

Not sure why Utah does this, I thought that they already had Alec burks who is a solid SG

[Ilikesports17]

The grass is always greener...

I'm not sure it's the no brainier some are making it out to be. We also add the Clippers pick?

Even Zach Lowe says its a "long shot".

Respectfully the grass might not always be greener but what is being discussed is to turn Bradley, a former 19th pick and a pick in the mid to late 20's into a 12th pick. Historically speaking the grass for a 12th pick is much greener than the 19th or 25th.

As you said though the trade is by no means a no brainier but a trade like that could lead to you ending up with a player that far exceeds their draft value. This is the range where the higher risk players drop out of the top 10 or the first wave of really good players that may not having the highest ceiling can no longer be ignored.

2011 Klay Thompson 11th Pick
2013 Shabazz Muhammad 14th Pick (Looks like he can score effectively at the NBA level)
2013 Steven Adams 12th Pick(Effective NBA Center)
2010 Paul George 10th Pick
2013 Giannis Antetokunmpo 15th Pick
2011 Kawhi Leonard 15th Pick

I think you are right that there are a lot of quality players available at 10-15 that arent around at 19 or 26. This year Turner, Oubre, Poeltl, Lyles etc could all be very good pros.

However, you cant think of AB as a 19th pick anymore, just like Jimmy Butler isnt a 30th pick and Anthony Bennett isnt a #1 pick. You have to look at it as a player. I think at 12 we could well get a far superior player to AB we could also get a scrub.

Now having picks 11 and 12 would allow us to take two risks like we did with Sully/Melo except at a higher talent threshold. Say Turner, Oubre. Say one works out Id be pretty happy with that.

Not sure its a no brainer but you would really have to consider it.

Don't disagree that you need to update values although with that contract I say AB's still got similar value that to when he was drafted, not overpaid but he's paid about as much can be expected for a specialist which has similar value to a blue chipper on a rookie scale contract.

Agree with both of you, Im just not sure pick #12 is a bluechipper.

Thats for Ainge to decide. if he sees two Paul Georges or a Klay Thompson and a Steven Adam or something like that he makes the move, or if he falls in love with someone in the 5-10 range so he can package the picks and move up.

[Smartacus]

#12 is not a good enough pick for Bradley.

IMO drafting late lottery is a big risk.

Here are all the #12 picks since 2000:

2014 Dario Saric
2013 Steven Adams
2012 Jeremy Lamb
2011 Alec Burks
2010 Xavier Henry
2009 Gerald Henderson
2008 Jason Thompson
2007 Thaddeus Young
2006 Hilton Armstrong
2005 Yaroslav Korolev
2004 Robert Swift
2003 Nick Collison
2002 Melvin Ely
2001 Vladimir Radmanovic
2000 Etan Thomas

Not exactly a list of worldbeaters taken at the #12 spot.
Now if we trade Bradley plus something else for a top 8 pick, I'm on board with that scenario.

Well GM's might be learning a bit, 3 of the last 4 of those were good picks, Saric (and most of the players picked immediately after him) in particular has a good deal of upside.

Like last year, this is also a deep draft for mid level talent. 2003(Lebron Wade Bosh Melo) is considered one of the best drafts ever but if you were picking around 12 your options were garbage.

There rarely are 7 foot rim protectors, Euroleague standouts and wings this talented at pick 11 which could possibly be worth AB. Who would have thought the Spurs would part with a key rotation player like George Hill for a chance at a big but "raw" wing like Kawhi Leonard?

[LarBrd33]

I think there was already a thread about this.

Yeah I'd do it... especially if we could get them to eat Bradley's salary.  That would be a no-brainer.

Ainge could get nearly any team in the league with cap space to "eat" Bradley's deal. It's not a bad deal.

Even Zach Lowe calls it a nice deal and he's about as well informed a guy as there is in the NBA.

I mean that's the thing though... getting the #12 pick would be half of it.  The other half would be freeing up another 8 mil in cap space to sign a replacement player for Bradley.  I think Bradley is a fine player, but I'm sure you could fairly easily get a comparable one for the money he makes.

So then the question isn't "Would you trade Bradley for #12"... it becomes "would you trade Bradley for #12 and a free agent like Arron Afflalo"

[Smartacus]

The grass is always greener...

I'm not sure it's the no brainier some are making it out to be. We also add the Clippers pick?

Even Zach Lowe says its a "long shot".

Respectfully the grass might not always be greener but what is being discussed is to turn Bradley, a former 19th pick and a pick in the mid to late 20's into a 12th pick. Historically speaking the grass for a 12th pick is much greener than the 19th or 25th.

As you said though the trade is by no means a no brainier but a trade like that could lead to you ending up with a player that far exceeds their draft value. This is the range where the higher risk players drop out of the top 10 or the first wave of really good players that may not having the highest ceiling can no longer be ignored.

2011 Klay Thompson 11th Pick
2013 Shabazz Muhammad 14th Pick (Looks like he can score effectively at the NBA level)
2013 Steven Adams 12th Pick(Effective NBA Center)
2010 Paul George 10th Pick
2013 Giannis Antetokunmpo 15th Pick
2011 Kawhi Leonard 15th Pick

I think you are right that there are a lot of quality players available at 10-15 that arent around at 19 or 26. This year Turner, Oubre, Poeltl, Lyles etc could all be very good pros.

However, you cant think of AB as a 19th pick anymore, just like Jimmy Butler isnt a 30th pick and Anthony Bennett isnt a #1 pick. You have to look at it as a player. I think at 12 we could well get a far superior player to AB we could also get a scrub.

Now having picks 11 and 12 would allow us to take two risks like we did with Sully/Melo except at a higher talent threshold. Say Turner, Oubre. Say one works out Id be pretty happy with that.

Not sure its a no brainer but you would really have to consider it.

Don't disagree that you need to update values although with that contract I say AB's still got similar value that to when he was drafted, not overpaid but he's paid about as much can be expected for a specialist which has similar value to a blue chipper on a rookie scale contract.

Agree with both of you, Im just not sure pick #12 is a bluechipper.

Thats for Ainge to decide. if he sees two Paul Georges or a Klay Thompson and a Steven Adam or something like that he makes the move, or if he falls in love with someone in the 5-10 range so he can package the picks and move up.

Ya we'll have to see if pick #12 is a blue chipper, I was actually suggesting that AB on a rookie deal was close to a blue chip asset for us because he was imo much better than the average pick #19.

And if Ainge can package all of that into a top 8 selection... well it's a gamble but could also be the type of move that pushes us over the top. For better or worse that's a potential career defining transaction.

[Forza Juventus]

I think there was already a thread about this.

Yeah I'd do it... especially if we could get them to eat Bradley's salary.  That would be a no-brainer.

Ainge could get nearly any team in the league with cap space to "eat" Bradley's deal. It's not a bad deal.

Even Zach Lowe calls it a nice deal and he's about as well informed a guy as there is in the NBA.

I mean that's the thing though... getting the #12 pick would be half of it.  The other half would be freeing up another 8 mil in cap space to sign a replacement player for Bradley.  I think Bradley is a fine player, but I'm sure you could fairly easily get a comparable one for the money he makes.

So then the question isn't "Would you trade Bradley for #12"... it becomes "would you trade Bradley for #12 and a free agent like Arron Afflalo"

I would still have to see who was on the board at Utah's pick but that is a good point. Also another lottery pick makes it easier to trade up.

[BleedGreen1989]

I think there was already a thread about this.

Yeah I'd do it... especially if we could get them to eat Bradley's salary.  That would be a no-brainer.

Ainge could get nearly any team in the league with cap space to "eat" Bradley's deal. It's not a bad deal.

Even Zach Lowe calls it a nice deal and he's about as well informed a guy as there is in the NBA.

I mean that's the thing though... getting the #12 pick would be half of it.  The other half would be freeing up another 8 mil in cap space to sign a replacement player for Bradley.  I think Bradley is a fine player, but I'm sure you could fairly easily get a comparable one for the money he makes.

So then the question isn't "Would you trade Bradley for #12"... it becomes "would you trade Bradley for #12 and a free agent like Arron Afflalo"

I see where you're heading, but Ainge would have to be pretty certain he had "free agent X" in the bag to round out the entire value.

[LarBrd33]

I think there was already a thread about this.

Yeah I'd do it... especially if we could get them to eat Bradley's salary.  That would be a no-brainer.

Ainge could get nearly any team in the league with cap space to "eat" Bradley's deal. It's not a bad deal.

Even Zach Lowe calls it a nice deal and he's about as well informed a guy as there is in the NBA.

I mean that's the thing though... getting the #12 pick would be half of it.  The other half would be freeing up another 8 mil in cap space to sign a replacement player for Bradley.  I think Bradley is a fine player, but I'm sure you could fairly easily get a comparable one for the money he makes.

So then the question isn't "Would you trade Bradley for #12"... it becomes "would you trade Bradley for #12 and a free agent like Arron Afflalo"

I see where you're heading, but Ainge would have to be pretty certain he had "free agent X" in the bag to round out the entire value.

Well we are in a unique position this summer.  It's basically the first time in the history of the franchise that we have cap space to offer a max contract.  We have something like 26 mil in cap space.  But that's if you assume we let Bass, Crowder, and Jerebko walk.  It also doesn't include the money we'll need to pay our 2015 rookies which is a few mil.    So I'll let you decide what we're looking at, but it should still be a significant chunk of money to go after a quality player or two.

I guess Ainge would have to decide if freeing up another 8 mil would be beneficial.  Does he want to put himself in position to have 34 mil in cap space... and be able to call up Kevin Love and say, Kevin... We got a max contract waiting for you... plus feel free to convince another free agent to join along with you cuz we got them covered as well.   It would be a long-shot, but having 34 mil in cap space (and maybe even more if we stretch the final year of Gerald Wallace or give up a pick to Philly to have them take him off our hands for a few months) would at least give you a fighting chance of signing a couple guys like Kevin Love and Marc Gasol as a package deal.

Or maybe it just affords you the luxury to say, "Ok, we're gonna offer Asik 10 mil.  Offer Greg Monroe 12 mil... and still have another 10-12 mil to go after a Bradley replacement... preferably one with appropriate size for the position so we can consider starting Thomas"

Check out the list:  http://hoopshype.com/free_agency_2015.htm   ... Think you could find a suitable Bradley replacement for 8 mil?  I mean, you might not even need a SG if the plan is to start Thomas + Smart ... (or go after Ty Lawson via trade this summer as some have suggested... Lawson and Smart could be our back court and we could use the Bradley money towards upgrading a position of need)

If the Jazz offer #12 for Bradley and can absorb his salary, I think it's a no-brainer.   I doubt that offer will be on the table, though.

[BleedGreen1989]

I think there was already a thread about this.

Yeah I'd do it... especially if we could get them to eat Bradley's salary.  That would be a no-brainer.

Ainge could get nearly any team in the league with cap space to "eat" Bradley's deal. It's not a bad deal.

Even Zach Lowe calls it a nice deal and he's about as well informed a guy as there is in the NBA.

I mean that's the thing though... getting the #12 pick would be half of it.  The other half would be freeing up another 8 mil in cap space to sign a replacement player for Bradley.  I think Bradley is a fine player, but I'm sure you could fairly easily get a comparable one for the money he makes.

So then the question isn't "Would you trade Bradley for #12"... it becomes "would you trade Bradley for #12 and a free agent like Arron Afflalo"

I see where you're heading, but Ainge would have to be pretty certain he had "free agent X" in the bag to round out the entire value.

Well we are in a unique position this summer.  It's basically the first time in the history of the franchise that we have cap space to offer a max contract.  We have something like 26 mil in cap space.  But that's if you assume we let Bass, Crowder, and Jerebko walk.  It also doesn't include the money we'll need to pay our 2015 rookies which is a few mil.    So I'll let you decide what we're looking at, but it should still be a significant chunk of money to go after a quality player or two.

I guess Ainge would have to decide if freeing up another 8 mil would be beneficial.  Does he want to put himself in position to have 34 mil in cap space... and be able to call up Kevin Love and say, Kevin... We got a max contract waiting for you... plus feel free to convince another free agent to join along with you cuz we got them covered as well.   It would be a long-shot, but having 34 mil in cap space (and maybe even more if we stretch the final year of Gerald Wallace or give up a pick to Philly to have them take him off our hands for a few months) would at least give you a fighting chance of signing a couple guys like Kevin Love and Marc Gasol as a package deal.

Or maybe it just affords you the luxury to say, "Ok, we're gonna offer Asik 10 mil.  Offer Greg Monroe 12 mil... and still have another 10-12 mil to go after a Bradley replacement... preferably one with appropriate size for the position so we can consider starting Thomas"

Check out the list:  http://hoopshype.com/free_agency_2015.htm   ... Think you could find a suitable Bradley replacement for 8 mil?  I mean, you might not even need a SG if the plan is to start Thomas + Smart ... (or go after Ty Lawson via trade this summer as some have suggested... Lawson and Smart could be our back court and we could use the Bradley money towards upgrading a position of need)

If the Jazz offer #12 for Bradley and can absorb his salary, I think it's a no-brainer.   I doubt that offer will be on the table, though.

I see what you're saying. It certainly carries its own risk though.

Boston could certainly strike out and end up with a lesser talented team next season.

[LarBrd33]

I think there was already a thread about this.

Yeah I'd do it... especially if we could get them to eat Bradley's salary.  That would be a no-brainer.

Ainge could get nearly any team in the league with cap space to "eat" Bradley's deal. It's not a bad deal.

Even Zach Lowe calls it a nice deal and he's about as well informed a guy as there is in the NBA.

I mean that's the thing though... getting the #12 pick would be half of it.  The other half would be freeing up another 8 mil in cap space to sign a replacement player for Bradley.  I think Bradley is a fine player, but I'm sure you could fairly easily get a comparable one for the money he makes.

So then the question isn't "Would you trade Bradley for #12"... it becomes "would you trade Bradley for #12 and a free agent like Arron Afflalo"

I see where you're heading, but Ainge would have to be pretty certain he had "free agent X" in the bag to round out the entire value.

Well we are in a unique position this summer.  It's basically the first time in the history of the franchise that we have cap space to offer a max contract.  We have something like 26 mil in cap space.  But that's if you assume we let Bass, Crowder, and Jerebko walk.  It also doesn't include the money we'll need to pay our 2015 rookies which is a few mil.    So I'll let you decide what we're looking at, but it should still be a significant chunk of money to go after a quality player or two.

I guess Ainge would have to decide if freeing up another 8 mil would be beneficial.  Does he want to put himself in position to have 34 mil in cap space... and be able to call up Kevin Love and say, Kevin... We got a max contract waiting for you... plus feel free to convince another free agent to join along with you cuz we got them covered as well.   It would be a long-shot, but having 34 mil in cap space (and maybe even more if we stretch the final year of Gerald Wallace or give up a pick to Philly to have them take him off our hands for a few months) would at least give you a fighting chance of signing a couple guys like Kevin Love and Marc Gasol as a package deal.

Or maybe it just affords you the luxury to say, "Ok, we're gonna offer Asik 10 mil.  Offer Greg Monroe 12 mil... and still have another 10-12 mil to go after a Bradley replacement... preferably one with appropriate size for the position so we can consider starting Thomas"

Check out the list:  http://hoopshype.com/free_agency_2015.htm   ... Think you could find a suitable Bradley replacement for 8 mil?  I mean, you might not even need a SG if the plan is to start Thomas + Smart ... (or go after Ty Lawson via trade this summer as some have suggested... Lawson and Smart could be our back court and we could use the Bradley money towards upgrading a position of need)

If the Jazz offer #12 for Bradley and can absorb his salary, I think it's a no-brainer.   I doubt that offer will be on the table, though.

I see what you're saying. It certainly carries its own risk though.

Boston could certainly strike out and end up with a lesser talented team next season.

There are risks.  But regardless of how it impacts the cap situation, if you can get #12 for a role player like Bradley, it's probably a smart move.  I think that's about as high as you're ever going to be able to sell Bradley for.  Teams were offering late 1sts for him at the deadline.