Author Topic: Kelly No "O"lynyk  (Read 15251 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Kelly No "O"lynyk
« Reply #75 on: March 24, 2015, 10:02:29 AM »

Offline clover

  • Front Page Moderator
  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6130
  • Tommy Points: 315
Quote
Let's see the list of current second year players who have been consistently good every night?
There are a few guys who have good second years.  Some guys believe or not are good from the get go.   Bigs do take longer to develop usually.

Looking at our roster, Crowder, Smart and Jerebko play hard every night.   Their production can be uneven but you know they will try hard and play D.   Bass you know what he is going to give you and he is pretty consistent.   Zeller for the most part is fairly consistent.   ET is all over the place some nights he is lights out and some nights he kills us and probably why he has bounced around a lot.   AB is getting to where he is reliable most nights but has an occasional slump. KO is a confidence player in that some nights he is good and some nights he is not depending on whether his shot is falling. Phil is a nice little PG off the bench who shows that he can be ready despite not playing all season.   Young is all over the place but he is what 19 and he will likely get a pass for a year or two but he inability to make progress on defense needs to be addressed in the off season. 

Speaking of 19, KO is 23 going on 24 this year on April 19th.   He is not the age of your typical NBA two year player taken in the top twenty.   Young will have 4-5 experience under his belt by the time he is KO's age.   KO has about 10-12 years left in him.

Quote
ha, ha....sounds like a plan. pass final judgement early to avoid the crowd.

KO and Sully have a lot or up and downs because they depend on their ability to match up because they lack athletic ability.   They both struggle against length and athletic ability.   You can pretty much tell what your going to get in a player after an NBA season.   Both these guys are skilled and slow.   They might improve their shooting and saavy but their athletic ability is finite.  I think KO has a better work ethic and Sully's conditioning bears this out.  I think they have a place in the league.  I just think what we see is what we will get with them.

I doubt you have ever been around scouts, scouted or the like or been scouted.   They can make up their mind pretty quickly.  This let's wait and hope they blossom has not place in professional sports played by men.   Guys have to show progress at certain ages or they get replaced.  It happens all the time.   You can bet Ainge notices KO vanishing some nights.  You can bet he would trade him if he thought it would make the team better.  Some of these guys are simply playing to build their value and see if we want to keep them or deal them.   

What you don't realize is that people are consistently jockeying for position in the pros.   Free Agents to be, are trying to increase their value, guys on your team are trying to play and take your spot, etc.   No one is going to take KO hold his hand and hope he gets better.  He is going to have to step up and deliver or down the road he will be replaced or benched it is that simple.   It is his job too.

I thought Kelly played well last night.  I hope he can maintain it but I am not optimistic given his history.  We certainly need everyone to step up for the playoff fight as we have several games that will be hard down the stretch.  We need all the help we can get down the stretch and good Kelly.

7-footers take longer to mature than smaller players, so KO in maturity is probably about where Smart will be next year at 21/22--still a ways to go. But scouts and GMs thrive in the league if they can recognize the high-potential young players who will realize a good share of their potential--but haven't quite managed to do so yet. That's exactly where KO is. The trick is for the C's not to undervalue him while another team takes advantage of Danny making that mistake.

And, I'd argue that while KO needs some strengthening of body and mind, as well as development of some skill and toughness down low, he always plays hard. What you want, rightly, is for him to always play aggressively. He just had a great night with his 18 points in 16 minutes of play, but he may have had a better game just before, when he cranked out the boards and assists even though his shot wasn't falling.

He may not get it all together, but then again he very well may. And even while he's not near his ceiling, he has had as positive +/- effect on his team as any Celtic for his two years in the league.


Re: Kelly No "O"lynyk
« Reply #76 on: March 24, 2015, 10:14:31 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
KO still has a "soft" body like many younger players. KO and Sullinger should workout with Crowder in the offseason. 


Re: Kelly No "O"lynyk
« Reply #77 on: March 24, 2015, 10:32:33 AM »

Offline DarkAzcura

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 644
  • Tommy Points: 100
Quote
as for consistency, it is his second year and he lost playing time due to an injury. let's wait and see, shall we?
'Excuses are like ...., everyone has one.

This kind of mindset had us hoping for years with Jeff Green.   A guy either is mentally tough or they are not.   He plays well once he gets a shot falling and falters when his shot is not.   That is nothing to do with experience or how many years he has, I bet he has been like that his life.

See I think some of you have to learn how to watch off the ball basketball. Comparing Green and Olynyk in mentality just shows how little some of you are paying attention to the overall game. When Green wasn't scoring, he stood in a corner and hung out. When Olynyk isn't scoring, he is moving the ball and constantly in motion setting screens and moving the opposing center out of his comfort zone. It's just so different. How can you not notice this? It's not all about shooting, though, I want Kelly to shoot more, the guy is FAR from passive on the court. He does A LOT out there, even when he is not shooting.

And then he goes and scores 18 points on 7/12 shooting with 3/5 from 3 point land in an important road game against a team we are trying to beat out for the last playoff spot.  KO can score.  But he's going to have growing pains like any other young player.

http://www.nba.com/games/20150323/BOSBKN/gameinfo.html?ls=slt
The problem is not his ability to score, it's his ability to disappear completely more often than not.

This is the furthest thing from the truth. When Olynyk isn't scoring, he is still doing plenty out there. He doesn't just sit in the corner like the Jeff Green's of the world. He is constantly involved in every offensive set and play because of how well he moves off the ball. If you think he disappears, you aren't paying attention whatsoever.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 10:41:52 AM by DarkAzcura »

Re: Kelly No "O"lynyk
« Reply #78 on: March 24, 2015, 10:46:32 AM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10160
  • Tommy Points: 350
Quote
as for consistency, it is his second year and he lost playing time due to an injury. let's wait and see, shall we?
'Excuses are like ...., everyone has one.

This kind of mindset had us hoping for years with Jeff Green.   A guy either is mentally tough or they are not.   He plays well once he gets a shot falling and falters when his shot is not.   That is nothing to do with experience or how many years he has, I bet he has been like that his life.

Well, Jeff Green was already in his fourth year when he joined Boston, and he had plenty of time—more than two seasons—to recover from his heart surgery and prove his doubters wrong, but he never did.

Let's give KO two more years, and then I might be okay with all the moaning and groaning about him.
There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'

You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.

C.S. Lewis

Re: Kelly No "O"lynyk
« Reply #79 on: March 24, 2015, 11:16:55 AM »

Offline Snakehead

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6846
  • Tommy Points: 448
"well.... yeah he had a good game but what about the other game huh???"

It's like when I read the other day "If you eliminate his 20+ point game against OKC, he's shooting _ for _ (whatever not great number it was) in the last three games."   ::)





This is the furthest thing from the truth. When Olynyk isn't scoring, he is still doing plenty out there. He doesn't just sit in the corner like the Jeff Green's of the world. He is constantly involved in every offensive set and play because of how well he moves off the ball. If you think he disappears, you aren't paying attention whatsoever.

The other day in, yes, a terrible shooting game, he still had 8 boards, 2 blocks, and I think 3 assists?  Like you say good ball movement and spacing.  He might be the 2nd or 3rd best passer on the team.  And as you say, he is setting great screens and dictating what the defense does on rolls in a way that only Zeller can match (and Zeller doesn't have the pick and pop thread out to the three point line).

It is a make or miss league, but when a 2nd year player is missing great looks for a stretch and otherwise playing strong basketball I'm not going to crucify him.  He's a major key to our offense and we're always better with him than without.
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: Kelly No "O"lynyk
« Reply #80 on: March 24, 2015, 11:23:20 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 37807
  • Tommy Points: 3030
Quote
as for consistency, it is his second year and he lost playing time due to an injury. let's wait and see, shall we?
'Excuses are like ...., everyone has one.

This kind of mindset had us hoping for years with Jeff Green.   A guy either is mentally tough or they are not.   He plays well once he gets a shot falling and falters when his shot is not.   That is nothing to do with experience or how many years he has, I bet he has been like that his life.

Well, Jeff Green was already in his fourth year when he joined Boston, and he had plenty of time—more than two seasons—to recover from his heart surgery and prove his doubters wrong, but he never did.

Let's give KO two more years, and then I might be okay with all the moaning and groaning about him.

Two more years ?   :o

Lordy Lordy ...he ll be on the backside of forty

Re: Kelly No "O"lynyk
« Reply #81 on: March 24, 2015, 11:23:54 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
And then he goes and scores 18 points on 7/12 shooting with 3/5 from 3 point land in an important road game against a team we are trying to beat out for the last playoff spot.  KO can score.  But he's going to have growing pains like any other young player.

http://www.nba.com/games/20150323/BOSBKN/gameinfo.html?ls=slt
The problem is not his ability to score, it's his ability to disappear completely more often than not.

This is the furthest thing from the truth. When Olynyk isn't scoring, he is still doing plenty out there. He doesn't just sit in the corner like the Jeff Green's of the world. He is constantly involved in every offensive set and play because of how well he moves off the ball. If you think he disappears, you aren't paying attention whatsoever.
He was impacting the game so impressively that he played 20 minutes or less in 8 of the last 10 games...
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Kelly No "O"lynyk
« Reply #82 on: March 24, 2015, 12:35:21 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13696
  • Tommy Points: 1029
I fear we are over-analyzing poor Kelly (but I guess that is what a Blog Forum dedicated to the Celtics is made for).  I agree with those pointing out that he contributes in many ways when he is on the court so his shooting/scoring isn't always going to be a metric that tells the whole story.

I think 20 minutes a game is about right for him.  He is not real fit so you see his game get a little sloppy when he gets tired (I think post injury conditioning explains his recent dip that some seemed to overreact to).  He also is prone to fouls, although not always deservedly, so that limits his time on court too.

When he is in shape, healthy, and not tired from being on the court too long, he is a pretty nice, versatile player.  Teams need guys like him.  He is a good asset for keeping or trading.

Re: Kelly No "O"lynyk
« Reply #83 on: March 24, 2015, 12:39:37 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
KO and Jerebko look good out there together
http://youtu.be/OTgUgM-638A
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 12:46:08 PM by triboy16f »

Re: Kelly No "O"lynyk
« Reply #84 on: March 24, 2015, 12:46:50 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10160
  • Tommy Points: 350
I fear we are over-analyzing poor Kelly (but I guess that is what a Blog Forum dedicated to the Celtics is made for).  I agree with those pointing out that he contributes in many ways when he is on the court so his shooting/scoring isn't always going to be a metric that tells the whole story.

I think 20 minutes a game is about right for him.  He is not real fit so you see his game get a little sloppy when he gets tired (I think post injury conditioning explains his recent dip that some seemed to overreact to).  He also is prone to fouls, although not always deservedly, so that limits his time on court too.

When he is in shape, healthy, and not tired from being on the court too long, he is a pretty nice, versatile player.  Teams need guys like him.  He is a good asset for keeping or trading.

Wow, a level-headed analysis. How dare you!  ;D
There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'

You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.

C.S. Lewis

Re: Kelly No "O"lynyk
« Reply #85 on: March 24, 2015, 01:23:05 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • NCE
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20135
  • Tommy Points: 1335
Quote
KO and Jerebko look good out there together

I agree and they are the floor spreading bigs Ainge likes...

Quote
Comparing Green and Olynyk in mentality just shows how little some of you are paying attention to the overall game. When Green wasn't scoring, he stood in a corner and hung out. When Olynyk isn't scoring, he is moving the ball and constantly in motion setting screens and moving the opposing center out of his comfort zone. It's just so different. How can you not notice this? It's not all about shooting, though, I want Kelly to shoot more, the guy is FAR from passive on the court. He does A LOT out there, even when he is not shooting.

I was talking about personality types in that they let the game come to them and not take them.   I guess you didn't get it.   I was not talking about the surface stuff anyone could see, what I was talking about was deeper.   Their mentality, not a superficial analysis of where they stand.   You watch basketball but I don't think you understand player's mindsets. 

BTW, I see Oly stand a bunch on the perimeter at the top of the Key.  Jerebko too, they set picks and roll out for the three quite a bit.   A lot of the time they stand there.  You make it sound like he is Hondo which he is not.

Here is vid to prove it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vs-GdsAa9x4

you can catch him doing both here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crWfC6Zy64U

So when a guy is not moving that is called standing.  Notice he makes a lot of shots on the perimeter.

http://vorped.com/1-nba/2014-2015/player/1573/kelly-olynyk/shotchart/

http://vorped.com/1-nba/2013-2014/player/1573/kelly-olynyk/shotchart/

Since he has came into the league roughly, he is 295- 481 shots in the paint, 75-194 from two point range and 78 -225 from three point land in his two seasons.   A quarter of the shots he takes are threes and one third of them are from the top of the key.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 01:37:03 PM by Celtics4ever »

Re: Kelly No "O"lynyk
« Reply #86 on: March 24, 2015, 01:57:02 PM »

Offline gpap

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8224
  • Tommy Points: 417
Quote
as for consistency, it is his second year and he lost playing time due to an injury. let's wait and see, shall we?
'Excuses are like ...., everyone has one.

This kind of mindset had us hoping for years with Jeff Green.   A guy either is mentally tough or they are not.   He plays well once he gets a shot falling and falters when his shot is not.   That is nothing to do with experience or how many years he has, I bet he has been like that his life.

Well, Jeff Green was already in his fourth year when he joined Boston, and he had plenty of time—more than two seasons—to recover from his heart surgery and prove his doubters wrong, but he never did.

Let's give KO two more years, and then I might be okay with all the moaning and groaning about him.

I think we should give KO even more than two years time until this ends up being his team picture.

What do you think?


Re: Kelly No "O"lynyk
« Reply #87 on: March 24, 2015, 02:22:15 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10160
  • Tommy Points: 350
Quote
as for consistency, it is his second year and he lost playing time due to an injury. let's wait and see, shall we?
'Excuses are like ...., everyone has one.

This kind of mindset had us hoping for years with Jeff Green.   A guy either is mentally tough or they are not.   He plays well once he gets a shot falling and falters when his shot is not.   That is nothing to do with experience or how many years he has, I bet he has been like that his life.

Well, Jeff Green was already in his fourth year when he joined Boston, and he had plenty of time—more than two seasons—to recover from his heart surgery and prove his doubters wrong, but he never did.

Let's give KO two more years, and then I might be okay with all the moaning and groaning about him.

I think we should give KO even more than two years time until this ends up being his team picture.

What do you think?



As long as KO can help us get a medal/ring/trophy at that age, great!
There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'

You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.

C.S. Lewis

Re: Kelly No "O"lynyk
« Reply #88 on: March 24, 2015, 02:34:32 PM »

Offline oldtype

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1677
  • Tommy Points: 143
The issue I have with him is not that he's a bad player, but that I think he has the tools to be so much more.

How many seven footers (even if he plays a bit shorter than seven feet due to his short arms) can run the floor, pass, and shoot like this guy can? He's not Dirk, but if he just had the mentality to be a bit more aggressive in using his tools he could be a really decent player.

Even if he never improves though, he's a fine 3rd or 4th big, which is about what you'd expect from his draft position. His passivity is frustrating but I don't think he deserves some of the vitriol he gets.


Great words from a great man

Re: Kelly No "O"lynyk
« Reply #89 on: March 24, 2015, 02:59:53 PM »

Offline gpap

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8224
  • Tommy Points: 417
Quote
as for consistency, it is his second year and he lost playing time due to an injury. let's wait and see, shall we?
'Excuses are like ...., everyone has one.

This kind of mindset had us hoping for years with Jeff Green.   A guy either is mentally tough or they are not.   He plays well once he gets a shot falling and falters when his shot is not.   That is nothing to do with experience or how many years he has, I bet he has been like that his life.

Well, Jeff Green was already in his fourth year when he joined Boston, and he had plenty of time—more than two seasons—to recover from his heart surgery and prove his doubters wrong, but he never did.

Let's give KO two more years, and then I might be okay with all the moaning and groaning about him.

I think we should give KO even more than two years time until this ends up being his team picture.

What do you think?



As long as KO can help us get a medal/ring/trophy at that age, great!

Lol