Kelly No "O"lynyk

[Granath]

I think he's still not 100% after the ankle injury. He will hit his stride shooting the ball before the season is over. It's unfortunate that it's taking this long since we could have used his offense last night.

Yes, yes, we know. And Jared Sullinger still hasn't had a full offseason to get into some semblance of acceptable basketball shape, right?

That's a pretty dumb and outright unfair comparison. Olynyk started to return from his injury less than 3 weeks ago and it's quite possible that he was rushed back to due to Sullinger's injury. Olynyk not being 100% is very reasonable possibility. 3 weeks isn't the same thing as 3 years.

[Evantime34]

I think he's still not 100% after the ankle injury. He will hit his stride shooting the ball before the season is over. It's unfortunate that it's taking this long since we could have used his offense last night.

Yes, yes, we know. And Jared Sullinger still hasn't had a full offseason to get into some semblance of acceptable basketball shape, right?

The difference is Olynyk has shown he can shoot the 3 at a good clip while Sullinger has never shown that he is able to stay in shape.

I think if we can get a good stretch 4 in the draft I wouldn't be upset moving on from both those guys, but that doesn't mean Olynyk isn't quality.

[kozlodoev]

I think he's still not 100% after the ankle injury. He will hit his stride shooting the ball before the season is over. It's unfortunate that it's taking this long since we could have used his offense last night.

Yes, yes, we know. And Jared Sullinger still hasn't had a full offseason to get into some semblance of acceptable basketball shape, right?

The difference is Olynyk has shown he can shoot the 3 at a good clip while Sullinger has never shown that he is able to stay in shape.

I think if we can get a good stretch 4 in the draft I wouldn't be upset moving on from both those guys, but that doesn't mean Olynyk isn't quality.

He may be quality, but he's starting to turn into a complete basket case on the court, forgive the pun. He looked like he was on the verge of being above average starter despite his defensive deficiencies, and he's now slid to barely acceptable level of play for a rotation player.

[Evantime34]

I think he's still not 100% after the ankle injury. He will hit his stride shooting the ball before the season is over. It's unfortunate that it's taking this long since we could have used his offense last night.

Yes, yes, we know. And Jared Sullinger still hasn't had a full offseason to get into some semblance of acceptable basketball shape, right?

The difference is Olynyk has shown he can shoot the 3 at a good clip while Sullinger has never shown that he is able to stay in shape.

I think if we can get a good stretch 4 in the draft I wouldn't be upset moving on from both those guys, but that doesn't mean Olynyk isn't quality.

He may be quality, but he's starting to turn into a complete basket case on the court, forgive the pun. He looked like he was on the verge of being above average starter despite his defensive deficiencies, and he's now slid to barely acceptable level of play for a rotation player.

I don't think he has been that bad. Sure he hasn't been shooting very well since coming back, but his floor spacing and passing allows the C's to perform much better when he is on the court.

Since coming back from the ankle injury Olynyk has had a net rating of +10.3 even if he's acting like a basket case.

[YeezusChrist]

I think Kelly is gone this offseason he just doesnt bring enough to the table. I used to think Sully had to lose the weight for him to stay here but now I think he'll stay regardless. Sully beats KO in all categories except for 3 pt shooting but KO isn't that much better they are shooting 29% and 33% from 3 that's not very good anyway you look at it. Sully is a year younger, can rebound, and has confidence in his game and i'm all in on Sully. KO is too soft and too hesitant.

[Monkhouse]

Kelly needs to stop PUMP faking... It isn't working when he first came into the league, and it won't work now...

[Celtics4ever]

I think it is best to have players who are confident than guys whose play depends on their confidence.   Oly is the latter.  When things are going well, he is good, when they are not, he falters and allow it to compound.   Just shoot the shots and don't worry, he can't make the next one if he does not take it.

I have always thought he has a finite ceiling because he is not athletic.   He has a nice basketball IQ and interesting skillset.   But get a guy on him with length and he will struggle as he does not have elite length nor athletic ability to compensate.   He can compensate with his wits, when he is thinking straight sometimes but last night that was not the case.

Kelly needs to stop PUMP faking... It isn't working when he first came into the league, and it won't work now...

It is clear he is afraid of getting swatted.  That is why he does it.  The Trex arms scare him, I suppose.

I think he'll stay regardless. Sully beats KO in all categories except for 3 pt shooting but KO isn't that much better they are shooting 29% and 33% from 3 that's not very good anyway you look at it. Sully is a year younger, can rebound, and has confidence in his game and i'm all in on Sully. KO is too soft and too hesitant.

KO is soft and Sully is pudgy but I think in all fairness he is a better defender than Sully and has shown the ability to keep his weight in control and himself in Shape.   Sully has not done that folks.   He has grown as a player mainly in the waistline.  I think on a good team, neither is ideal.   Both are poor to below average athletes and even Sully getting into shape is not going to change that much.   Both have some nice gifts but finite ceiling.   Really, I would rather if we upgraded and they came off the bench where they have the advantage and be in the mismatch rather than the liabilty on D.

ESPN has a new stat Real =- that Jackie was talking about during the game last night.  Sully is a 1.76 which 21st for PF.  Curiously Jerebko is 2.20.   KO is a 2.44 but under the C column and he is 11th.  Bass was 45 for PF and he was a -0.71 folks.  The leader in PF was Davis with a 6.78 and C was Cousins with a 6.09

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/6
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/9

[Monkhouse]

Kelly needs to stop PUMP faking... It isn't working when he first came into the league, and it won't work now...

It is clear he is afraid of getting swatted.  That is why he does it.  The Trex arms scare him, I suppose.

I understand that, but shooting is all based on your confidence... If you're confident, and feeling like you're on fire, then you need to keep shooting. Stevens need to start screaming or sitting Kelly the moment he doesn't shoot, especially when he has a good opportunity.

He needs to develop the Jordan Crawford syndrome.

[Celtics4ever]

I understand that, but shooting is all based on your confidence... If you're confident, and feeling like you're on fire, then you need to keep shooting. Stevens need to start screaming or sitting Kelly the moment he doesn't shoot, especially when he has a good opportunity.

I have seen plenty of guys confident in their shot that could not make two with a pencil so this is not always true.  Just stroll down to a park or the Y and you see tons of guys who think they are all world but duds.

[Monkhouse]

I understand that, but shooting is all based on your confidence... If you're confident, and feeling like you're on fire, then you need to keep shooting. Stevens need to start screaming or sitting Kelly the moment he doesn't shoot, especially when he has a good opportunity.

I have seen plenty of guys confident in their shot that could not make two with a pencil so this is not always true.  Just stroll down to a park or the Y and you see tons of guys who think they are all world but duds.

Maybe I should phrased it differently.

Good shooters shoot in rhythm, KO ball/pump faking seems to throw him off. I would rather have KO shoot without hesitation, then hesitating. I just think he should be more confident in himself.

I liked your last sentence though lol, I see that a lot from the guys I play with at the gym. Ball hogs who think their the next James Harden.

[GreenWarrior]

I read these forums and wonder if I'm watching the same game others are.  All I've seen on these forums are posts about how bad Olynyk is on defense.  So he has his normal game except he gets two blocks from the weak side and now it's gone from complaining about his defense to his offense.

OK, he is in a shooting slump.  Probably from rust coming off the ankle injury, but putting that aside, he was pretty good on offense.  There is more to offense than your scoring.  Olynyk does all the little things that makes the offense easier for others.  If we'd shot better he could have had a few more assists but he got some guys wide open looks.  He also is setting good picks and hustling to keep offensive rebounds alive, but more importantly, he is still dragging his guy away from the basket.  Even though he isn't shooting well in this little stretch, his man who is usually a big, is still coming out to guard him which is a huge benefit for the team.

why can't there be new criticisms made?

in my case I've been watching olynyk specifically to try and gauge where he's at and see why i'm not impressed with him. and so far I see an improvement defensively as far as effort goes but he's still out of place and slow in rotations and gets overpowered by the minimally stronger players he defends.

his offense however is the one thing that he shouldn't have a problem with. he should be putting 20 shots a game up, he should be creating for his teammates...he's shown that ability.  he doesn't put up 20 shots a game because he's afraid to get his shot blocked. and it's been that way since before the injury.

[danglertx]

You and whoever else wants to can make new criticisms if you want, its a free forum, but I don't see threads like this about anyone else.  Zeller got completely punked by Drummond.   I don't think he scored on Kelly.   Zeller got pushed under the basket and dunked on WHILE Zeller was trying to give the foul.  I don't see any Zeller threads saying what a terrible defender he is.  KO's man set a pick up top for Reggie Jackson, KO got in front of him, cut him off at the basket and where was Bass covering KO's man on the roll for a massive dunk?  Bass didn't even think about coming from the weak side to step in front of the roll man.

It is things like that I find annoying about these forums.  Bass and Zeller are terrible defenders in their own ways.  Did either of them step up and take a charge on Jackson going to the basket?  No.  You don't see any threads about that.  KO was 1-9, Avery Bradley was 3-10, Zeller was 4-10 taking a lot closer shots than KO, Bass was 6-15, I don't see their threads.

Someone in this thread said KO couldn't make a free throw, well he was 2-2 so... i'm not sure what the complaint is there.

When you bring up the stats to people, they just don't seem to care.  I guess they don't believe in analytics.  ESPN came out with a new stat called REAL +- taking into account a ton more stuff that people have justified bashing Olynyk on like who they play with and who they play against.  KO is the 10th ranked center in the NBA!  Zeller is 31st. 

But most of the people on this board won't be able to accept that.  It must be a statistical anomaly, their eyes tell them KO lost Prince on that late three.  I wonder if they also saw Bradley picking KO off for 20ft down the floor. 

Here is the list in case you think the stat just isn't working:

1   DeMarcus Cousins   SAC   53   33.7   1.27   4.62   5.89   9.22
2   Tyson Chandler   DAL   65   30.7   1.04   3.46   4.50   8.44
3   Andrew Bogut   GS   54   23.8   -1.51   5.77   4.26   5.40
4   DeAndre Jordan   LAC   71   34.6   1.82   2.09   3.91   9.49
5   Marc Gasol   MEM   69   33.8   1.31   2.09   3.40   8.10
6   Jusuf Nurkic   DEN   51   18.3   -1.63   4.69   3.06   3.14
7   Tiago Splitter   SA   45   19.7   1.74   1.30   3.04   2.84
8   Zaza Pachulia   MIL   61   23.2   0.25   2.66   2.91   4.48
9   Timofey Mozgov   CLE/DEN   71   25.6   0.11   2.71   2.82   5.84
10   Kelly Olynyk   BOS   51   23.3   1.92   0.70   2.62   3.65
11   Hassan Whiteside   MIA   40   22.9   -0.29   2.69   2.40   2.59
12   Joakim Noah   CHI   59   30.8   -0.52   2.88   2.36   5.27
13   Al Horford   ATL   66   30.8   1.20   0.99   2.19   5.52
14   Rudy Gobert   UTAH   69   24.7   -2.21   3.73   1.52   3.94
15   Robin Lopez   POR   45   28.5   -0.68   1.82   1.14   2.78
16   Andre Drummond   DET   70   30.1   -0.31   1.40   1.09   4.40
17   Marcin Gortat   WSH   70   29.9   -1.34   2.21   0.87   4.13
18   Joel Anthony   DET   38   7.3   -1.43   2.18   0.75   0.50
19   Tristan Thompson   CLE   72   27.4   1.46   -0.83   0.63   3.48
20   Chris Bosh   MIA   44   35.4   0.58   -0.05   0.53   2.68

I know you can't tell which number means what but I post it just for the names in order.  If you want to look up ESPN's stats, just go do it.  I'm not making it up.  They ranks are for RPM, second to last column. 

So bash away at me or KO.  Ignore the stats.  Call for KO to be cut, whatever.  I'd like to think my team's fans are more knowledgeable about the game than other fans but of course that isn't any more realistic than people thinking KO is a terrible basketball player.

[D.o.s.]

honest question: can you really trust a stat that lists Olynyk ahead of Noah, Horford?

What about one that ranks Nurkic as the 6th "best" center in the NBA?

[jpotter33]

honest question: can you really trust a stat that lists Olynyk ahead of Noah, Horford?

What about one that ranks Nurkic as the 6th "best" center in the NBA?

And Zaza Pachulia and Joel Anthony 8th and 18th, respectively.

[Quetzalcoatl]

honest question: can you really trust a stat that lists Olynyk ahead of Noah, Horford?

What about one that ranks Nurkic as the 6th "best" center in the NBA?

Real +/- is not a great stat, but I won't tolerate any Nurkic bashing.  He is for real