Author Topic: Be Honest: Celtics make the playoffs - Good or Bad Thing?  (Read 43245 times)

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Re: Be Honest: Celtics make the playoffs - Good or Bad Thing?
« Reply #135 on: March 19, 2015, 01:59:13 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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You can't look at these things in a vacuum. We won't know if making or not making the playoffs was "good" until the draft or FA is over and we see where we end on the talent acquisition.

I've said before making the playoffs is pretty worthless if it doesn't advance the improvement of the roster. I stand buy that stance..

Re: Be Honest: Celtics make the playoffs - Good or Bad Thing?
« Reply #136 on: March 19, 2015, 02:25:28 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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2) There is potential for some weird bum tanking down the stretch. The 76ers own the lakers pick and they are virtually tied for 3rd and 4th worst record. The Lakers have so much incentive to not get that pick, but the 76ers have so much incentive not to pass the Lakers.

Edit: For those that didn't know the Lakers pick is top 5 protected

I was just thinking about that.  I'm rooting for the playoffs, but I've decided if that, somehow, the universe could promise me that the Celts and one other lottery team with a "good" record jumped to the top 3, thus pushing the Lakers to #6, I'd have to change my mind.

Mike

I get hating the lakers, and if it was any other team I would totally root for this. However, I feel like all the people gushing over the 76ers are forgetting they are in our division and look like they will be our biggest rivals in the division in 2 or 3 years. I know that sounds weird to say, but we both have young talent that will be developing over the same time period and some of the others teams in our division (Carmelo, Lowry,  Williams, Johnson etc) will start to fade in a few years, if not sooner. Rooting for a team in our division to get an extra top 5 pick seems misguided.

Re: Be Honest: Celtics make the playoffs - Good or Bad Thing?
« Reply #137 on: March 19, 2015, 02:35:52 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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2) There is potential for some weird bum tanking down the stretch. The 76ers own the lakers pick and they are virtually tied for 3rd and 4th worst record. The Lakers have so much incentive to not get that pick, but the 76ers have so much incentive not to pass the Lakers.

Edit: For those that didn't know the Lakers pick is top 5 protected

I was just thinking about that.  I'm rooting for the playoffs, but I've decided if that, somehow, the universe could promise me that the Celts and one other lottery team with a "good" record jumped to the top 3, thus pushing the Lakers to #6, I'd have to change my mind.

Mike

I get hating the lakers, and if it was any other team I would totally root for this. However, I feel like all the people gushing over the 76ers are forgetting they are in our division and look like they will be our biggest rivals in the division in 2 or 3 years. I know that sounds weird to say, but we both have young talent that will be developing over the same time period and some of the others teams in our division (Carmelo, Lowry,  Williams, Johnson etc) will start to fade in a few years, if not sooner. Rooting for a team in our division to get an extra top 5 pick seems misguided.
I think the best case here is LA gets number 5 and is able to hold on to their pick.  that player, no matter who it is, will not help LA/Kobe compete for a title so no risk of that player turning that franchise around before or after Kobe's retirement.   with that in mind, that new player and Kobe's return as well as the likelihood LA signs a decent FA this offseason will move LA's pick to the end of the lottery if not bottom of playoffs which is just fine since LA isn't a contender and Philly wouldn't get another prime pick this year but an ok pick next year (which isn't completely ideal but better than Philly getting #6 in addition to their own pick this year).

Re: Be Honest: Celtics make the playoffs - Good or Bad Thing?
« Reply #138 on: March 19, 2015, 02:38:47 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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I think the best case here is LA gets number 5 and is able to hold on to their pick.  that player, no matter who it is, will not help LA/Kobe compete for a title so no risk of that player turning that franchise around before or after Kobe's retirement.   with that in mind, that new player and Kobe's return as well as the likelihood LA signs a decent FA this offseason will move LA's pick to the end of the lottery if not bottom of playoffs which is just fine since LA isn't a contender and Philly wouldn't get another prime pick this year but an ok pick next year (which isn't completely ideal but better than Philly getting #6 in addition to their own pick this year).

Yeah honestly the 5th pick went from "no brainer, take Stanley Johnson" to "maybe don't take Stanley Johnson here?" over the last month.  He's still really good, but I think this draft has a clear top 4 instead of a clear top 5 now.

Re: Be Honest: Celtics make the playoffs - Good or Bad Thing?
« Reply #139 on: March 19, 2015, 02:40:22 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think LA will have Rondo and Kevin Love in the fold very quickly this off season.   If they get a big and get Randle back with an aged Kobe, one would think that they would draft a SG.

Re: Be Honest: Celtics make the playoffs - Good or Bad Thing?
« Reply #140 on: March 19, 2015, 03:42:37 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Boston landed Pierce after failing in their tank for Duncan (so the tank for Duncan failed, but Boston ended up with a franchise cornerstone and the Finals MVP of their lone recent title). 

lost me on this --> Pierce was taken in the draft after Duncan's draft.  we were stuck with Billups and Mercer in that draft.

C's had been bad for several years which ended up with 4 top ten picks that generated Antoine, Billups (moved for Kenny Anderson), Mercer and Pierce.   while that looked like a promising core in PP's rookie year,  that line-up didn't get far in a very weak Eastern conference.
Boston tanked for Duncan, lost out on that, but were still a pretty bad team and ended up with Pierce.  I'm not sure why that was hard to follow. 
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Re: Be Honest: Celtics make the playoffs - Good or Bad Thing?
« Reply #141 on: March 19, 2015, 03:45:26 PM »

Offline Moranis

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For all their tanking look at the Sixers. They couldn't beat Oak Hill Academy. Ok. They could. But if they were told the game counted in the standings they couldn't.

For all their tanking they have Joel Embid and Noel. Whoop de doo.

We have Sully, Marcus Smart, and James Young.

When you look at who they will supposedly pick next year nbadraft.net has them taking Jahil Okafor and Trey Lyles in the first round and we're taking Willy C Stein and Tyus Jones.

Is that their big plan? That's how they're going to get so great?

They're going to have Okafor, Noel, Embid, and T Lyles and we're going to have Sully, WCS, Smart, Young, and Tyus Jones and that's their plan for getting so much better than the rest of the league?

The foundation of their team is losing. They've made it to the Timberwolves zone. Kindred spirits with the 90s Clippers

You wouldn't trade our assets for theirs at this very moment?
They have Saric, the Lakers pick, their own 2015 pick, Noel and Embid.
They have far superior assets to ours.
What do we have that is even as good as Noel at this point? He's more valuable than Marcus Smart that's for sure.

The fact is that without Brad Stevens as a genius coach, we really don't have much other than Smart and Sullinger and some Brooklyn picks.

It's fine to criticize the 76ers, but to act like we are automatically better because we haven't gutted our roster is naive, and we may look like the foolish ones when we have this conversation in 2-3 years time if they present as the Wizards are now with John Wall and Beal shooting them up to a real threat in the East. What exactly are we hoping for at the moment? To be a better version of Atlanta and cross our fingers we can attract a free agent as good as their #3 draft pick Mr Al Horford.
Let's not forget that it's doubtful the East stays this bad for much longer. Miami will be back next year with Bosh and Dragic as Whiteside improves, New York has cap room, a top 3 pick and a top 20 player in his prime who's had a season of rest.
Cleveland has Lebron, Kyrie and Love and the Bucks have Giannis, Jabari Parker and a top 4 record in the East. Then there's the Bulls and Wizards.

Don't get me wrong Eja you get nothing but respect from me but I just want to make it clear that a lot of us aren't so optimistic about our chances at a title sooner than the 76ers- or at least a real shot at creating a championship team.
Smart and Stevens are great starting pieces, but other then them it's not all green happiness.
I would take Smart over Noel every day of the year. Embiid doesn't scare me at all and Euros that aren't here don't scare me either.

But no matter what assets they have they are teaching theirs to lose. We are teaching ours to win. It's not the assets. It's what you do with them.
Just like Oklahoma City was teaching Durant, Westbrook, and Harden to lose.  Yeah.  It has been shown time and time again that winning players will eventually win and losing players will eventually lose no matter how they start.  Losing doesn't create bad habits, just like winning doesn't create good habits.  It is all about the player. 
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Re: Be Honest: Celtics make the playoffs - Good or Bad Thing?
« Reply #142 on: March 19, 2015, 04:08:25 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Its a bad thing. I can't read this thread...it only makes me want to punch the screen.

This was the year we were going to draft our center. IMO Myles Turner may still be an option, but the chances are very slim.


Re: Be Honest: Celtics make the playoffs - Good or Bad Thing?
« Reply #143 on: March 19, 2015, 04:09:57 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Its a bad thing. I can't read this thread...it only makes me want to punch the screen.

This was the year we were going to draft our center. IMO Myles Turner may still be an option, but the chances are very slim.

Same Myles Turner that is currently scoreless into the second half against a butler team with a very average frontcourt?

Re: Be Honest: Celtics make the playoffs - Good or Bad Thing?
« Reply #144 on: March 19, 2015, 04:15:24 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I can't see how it would hurt.   Dropping to a less than 5% chance of a top three pick is better than making the actual playoffs at this point?  I'd rather enjoy 5-6 games of playoff basketball.  Watch them push their first round opponent hard.  Hang on to a sliver hope of winning a series.  Let some of these guys see what an NBA playoff experience is like.

Sure beats sitting in front of the ESPN lottery special and shutting it off after the first 5 minutes. 


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Re: Be Honest: Celtics make the playoffs - Good or Bad Thing?
« Reply #145 on: March 19, 2015, 04:16:51 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I can't see how it would hurt.   Dropping to a less than 5% chance of a top three pick is better than making the actual playoffs at this point?  I'd rather enjoy 5-6 games of playoff basketball.  Watch them push their first round opponent hard.  Hang on to a sliver hope of winning a series.  Let some of these guys see what an NBA playoff experience is like.

Sure beats sitting in front of the ESPN lottery special and shutting it off after the first 5 minutes.

Well said...it would pretty much be like 2% at this point

Re: Be Honest: Celtics make the playoffs - Good or Bad Thing?
« Reply #146 on: March 19, 2015, 04:18:26 PM »

Offline GreenGoggles

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I can't see how it would hurt.   Dropping to a less than 5% chance of a top three pick is better than making the actual playoffs at this point?  I'd rather enjoy 5-6 games of playoff basketball.  Watch them push their first round opponent hard.  Hang on to a sliver hope of winning a series.  Let some of these guys see what an NBA playoff experience is like.

Sure beats sitting in front of the ESPN lottery special and shutting it off after the first 5 minutes. 

Exactly, it's all short term gratification and enjoyment. I would've much preferred us have a shot at one of those top 4-5 prospects. At this point we're just too far out unfortunately.

Re: Be Honest: Celtics make the playoffs - Good or Bad Thing?
« Reply #147 on: March 19, 2015, 04:35:14 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Making the playoffs vs getting in the lottery:

Con:  We lose the tiny chance at jumping from an early teens pick up to a high pick. "Stuck" with a late teens pick.

Pro:  Making the playoffs arguably will mean that the trade value of all the players that Danny has on the roster that contribute to the run will be higher than if the team tanked.  Since I consider just about everybody on the roster a potential trade asset, that means that the trade value of Smart, Thomas, Turner, Olynyk, Bradley, Zeller & maybe even Pressey (guys still under contract past this year) will be bumped up a notch compared to if we stumbled into the lottery.   Even the guys not under contract (Bass, Jerebko, etc.) would have increased value in sign & trade deals.

Making the playoffs also means a significant wad of cash in Wyc's coffers, which eventually could mean the difference somewhere down the line when Danny wants to trade for or sign a big contract or two that puts us into the tax.

For the players NOT traded, sure - I'm sure the playoff experience together is probably better for their collective development than losing our way into the lottery.   But I think that's less important to Danny than their trade value.
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Re: Be Honest: Celtics make the playoffs - Good or Bad Thing?
« Reply #148 on: March 19, 2015, 04:43:42 PM »

Offline Nerf DPOY

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Boston landed Pierce after failing in their tank for Duncan (so the tank for Duncan failed, but Boston ended up with a franchise cornerstone and the Finals MVP of their lone recent title). 

lost me on this --> Pierce was taken in the draft after Duncan's draft.  we were stuck with Billups and Mercer in that draft.

C's had been bad for several years which ended up with 4 top ten picks that generated Antoine, Billups (moved for Kenny Anderson), Mercer and Pierce.   while that looked like a promising core in PP's rookie year,  that line-up didn't get far in a very weak Eastern conference.
Boston tanked for Duncan, lost out on that, but were still a pretty bad team and ended up with Pierce.  I'm not sure why that was hard to follow.

It was probably hard to follow because it was a terrible example of the benefits of losing. Spiders eat flies, so they're good type logic. That Pierce slipped to #10 a year after we tanked for Duncan makes a better case for randomness, luck, and human beings being unpredictable than it does for why losing = Good.

Re: Be Honest: Celtics make the playoffs - Good or Bad Thing?
« Reply #149 on: March 19, 2015, 05:10:38 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Boston tanked for Duncan and got Billups... which would have been a pretty good haul if we had the patience to develop him.

On the other hand, the team also tanked for Durant and would have gotten Jianlian, so...
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