LeBron passed Iverson on scoring list (22nd) could finish season at 20th.

[RebusRankin]

He has a legit shot to pass Kareem one day.

[crimson_stallion]

not to completely dismiss this accomplishment, because it is a big deal.  But Ive heard this discussed on the radio a couple times today and now I see it here in this thread and the thing that annoys me is that everyone gushes at where he is right now at such a young age, but no one seems to mention that Lebron came out of high school, didnt go to college, so he has as much as a 4 year head start on all these guys except for Kobe of course.

dont get me wrong, even if you factor games played instead of age, its still a big deal, but people today were acting like hes completely destroying everyone thats played the game

That's true -- and it's funny to see him at the head of all the 'youngest ever to' records, too.

Yeah but he is also 3rd all time in PPG behind only Jordan and Chamberlain.  Now granted he hasn't had his end of the career dip yet, but he has also played on a number of teams (the last 5 years) with other elite scorers.

Yeah but Kevin Durant is only behind him by 0.21 PPG (27.43 vs 27.31) and all the other guys on that list played very late in to their careers (which obviously dropped their scoring averages).  It's pretty hard to compare the career average of a guys who's 30 or so to guys who played until they were 35-40, especially when you consider the fact that Lebron has (for the most part) been very healthy so far in his career.  Guys like Bird, Shaq, Wade and even Jordan went through some pretty significant injuries over their careers that hurt them. 

Anyways what you need to look at is that Jordan averaged 30 PPG for something like 7 or 8 consecutive seasons during his prime.  Wilt Chamberlain averaged 30+ 11 straight seasons.  Kareem   Iverson averaged > 30 PPG five times.  Jerry West four times, Kareem four times, Kobe three times. 

Lebron has averaged >30 PPG only twice, and at 30 years of age he's just reaching the very end of his prime - from what I've seen I feel like he's already showing the faintest signs of decline, so I don't think he'll be putting up those kind of numbers again. 

I also don't think Lebron has that "mental toughness" to sustain those scoring numbers.  Guys like Kobe and Jordan (love them or hate them) were absolute warriors who would play through anything - there was no such thing as pain for those guys, they pushed it to the limit every night.  I believe that (along with BBIQ) has a lot to do with why they were able to continue to be so dominant late in their careers.  Lebron I feel really doesn't have that type of mental toughness, nor the same type of BBIQ.   Watching him play Lebron always looks to me like he's on cruise control - like he has another gear he could go to, but is choosing not to.  He also IMHO depends far more on his athleticism over BBIQ, and just tries to outrun/overpower everybody the vast majority of the time.  Once he gets older and his physical advantage starts fading, I think it's going to hit him a lot more than it his Kobe and MJ.  For example Kobe averaged 27 PPG two seasons ago at the age of 34.  When Lebron reaches 34 I'll be surprised if he's averaging more than ~22 PPG.

Don't get me wrong Lebron is an amazing talent, but I do believe he's been overhyped from day one and that he still is - all the people out there who try to argue he's better than Jordan (etc) are IMO living in dream land.  He'll go down as one of the greatest to ever play the game, but never THE greatest.

[Who]

I still believe LeBron will be the first person to break 40,000 career points barrier along with 10,000 plus career rebounds and 10,000 plus career assists.

[Moranis]

not to completely dismiss this accomplishment, because it is a big deal.  But Ive heard this discussed on the radio a couple times today and now I see it here in this thread and the thing that annoys me is that everyone gushes at where he is right now at such a young age, but no one seems to mention that Lebron came out of high school, didnt go to college, so he has as much as a 4 year head start on all these guys except for Kobe of course.

dont get me wrong, even if you factor games played instead of age, its still a big deal, but people today were acting like hes completely destroying everyone thats played the game

That's true -- and it's funny to see him at the head of all the 'youngest ever to' records, too.

Yeah but he is also 3rd all time in PPG behind only Jordan and Chamberlain.  Now granted he hasn't had his end of the career dip yet, but he has also played on a number of teams (the last 5 years) with other elite scorers.

Yeah but Kevin Durant is only behind him by 0.21 PPG (27.43 vs 27.31) and all the other guys on that list played very late in to their careers (which obviously dropped their scoring averages).  It's pretty hard to compare the career average of a guys who's 30 or so to guys who played until they were 35-40, especially when you consider the fact that Lebron has (for the most part) been very healthy so far in his career.  Guys like Bird, Shaq, Wade and even Jordan went through some pretty significant injuries over their careers that hurt them. 

Anyways what you need to look at is that Jordan averaged 30 PPG for something like 7 or 8 consecutive seasons during his prime.  Wilt Chamberlain averaged 30+ 11 straight seasons.  Kareem   Iverson averaged > 30 PPG five times.  Jerry West four times, Kareem four times, Kobe three times. 

Lebron has averaged >30 PPG only twice, and at 30 years of age he's just reaching the very end of his prime - from what I've seen I feel like he's already showing the faintest signs of decline, so I don't think he'll be putting up those kind of numbers again. 

I also don't think Lebron has that "mental toughness" to sustain those scoring numbers.  Guys like Kobe and Jordan (love them or hate them) were absolute warriors who would play through anything - there was no such thing as pain for those guys, they pushed it to the limit every night.  I believe that (along with BBIQ) has a lot to do with why they were able to continue to be so dominant late in their careers.  Lebron I feel really doesn't have that type of mental toughness, nor the same type of BBIQ.   Watching him play Lebron always looks to me like he's on cruise control - like he has another gear he could go to, but is choosing not to.  He also IMHO depends far more on his athleticism over BBIQ, and just tries to outrun/overpower everybody the vast majority of the time.  Once he gets older and his physical advantage starts fading, I think it's going to hit him a lot more than it his Kobe and MJ.  For example Kobe averaged 27 PPG two seasons ago at the age of 34.  When Lebron reaches 34 I'll be surprised if he's averaging more than ~22 PPG.

Don't get me wrong Lebron is an amazing talent, but I do believe he's been overhyped from day one and that he still is - all the people out there who try to argue he's better than Jordan (etc) are IMO living in dream land.  He'll go down as one of the greatest to ever play the game, but never THE greatest.

this is just a ridiculous post on so many levels I'm not even sure how to respond to it.  but for starters, for James to even reach Kobe's career PPG, he would have to play a 164 games where he averages 14.28 points a game.  Lebron will finish his career in the top 10 for PPG and that is with playing on numerous teams with multiple 22+ game scorers (before and after he arrived).  Very few of the other greats even played with one other player at more than 22 points a game multiple times (and Wade and Love both exceeded 25 a game multiple times).  I don't think people realize how rare that is and how hard it is to still score at Lebron's level given that.

And a guy like Kobe whose career high in assists is 6.  Lebron's career average is 6.9.  At least Jordan had a year above that (though just 1 year).  For the record, even Bird only finished at 6.3 apg (and his last 3 years were all above that so it isn't like he tailed off at the end).  That is what sets Lebron apart from virtually every other high scoring wing of the last 40 years (Oscar and West were also pretty solid passers in their day).   Lebron's TS% of 58.1% is better than Bird (56.4%), Jordan (56.9%), Kobe (55.3%), etc.  And Lebron's peak the last two years in Miami are significantly higher than any of those guys so it isn't just a case of them tailing off at the end of their careers.  Lebron started off better than everyone aside from Jordan and that is with coming from high school and he just keeps getting better and more well rounded.

When all is said and done, Lebron will finish in the top ten in points, assists, and steals.  Top 30 in rebounds and top 50 in blocks.  It really is a shame people don't recognize just how good Lebron is and just what he has accomplished. 

[LarBrd33]

Lebron probably took half as many shots to score as many points as iverson.   AI is one of the most overrated chuckers in NBA history.

[celticsclay]

not to completely dismiss this accomplishment, because it is a big deal.  But Ive heard this discussed on the radio a couple times today and now I see it here in this thread and the thing that annoys me is that everyone gushes at where he is right now at such a young age, but no one seems to mention that Lebron came out of high school, didnt go to college, so he has as much as a 4 year head start on all these guys except for Kobe of course.

dont get me wrong, even if you factor games played instead of age, its still a big deal, but people today were acting like hes completely destroying everyone thats played the game

That's true -- and it's funny to see him at the head of all the 'youngest ever to' records, too.

Yeah but he is also 3rd all time in PPG behind only Jordan and Chamberlain.  Now granted he hasn't had his end of the career dip yet, but he has also played on a number of teams (the last 5 years) with other elite scorers.

Yeah but Kevin Durant is only behind him by 0.21 PPG (27.43 vs 27.31) and all the other guys on that list played very late in to their careers (which obviously dropped their scoring averages).  It's pretty hard to compare the career average of a guys who's 30 or so to guys who played until they were 35-40, especially when you consider the fact that Lebron has (for the most part) been very healthy so far in his career.  Guys like Bird, Shaq, Wade and even Jordan went through some pretty significant injuries over their careers that hurt them. 

Anyways what you need to look at is that Jordan averaged 30 PPG for something like 7 or 8 consecutive seasons during his prime.  Wilt Chamberlain averaged 30+ 11 straight seasons.  Kareem   Iverson averaged > 30 PPG five times.  Jerry West four times, Kareem four times, Kobe three times. 

Lebron has averaged >30 PPG only twice, and at 30 years of age he's just reaching the very end of his prime - from what I've seen I feel like he's already showing the faintest signs of decline, so I don't think he'll be putting up those kind of numbers again. 

I also don't think Lebron has that "mental toughness" to sustain those scoring numbers.  Guys like Kobe and Jordan (love them or hate them) were absolute warriors who would play through anything - there was no such thing as pain for those guys, they pushed it to the limit every night.  I believe that (along with BBIQ) has a lot to do with why they were able to continue to be so dominant late in their careers.  Lebron I feel really doesn't have that type of mental toughness, nor the same type of BBIQ.   Watching him play Lebron always looks to me like he's on cruise control - like he has another gear he could go to, but is choosing not to.  He also IMHO depends far more on his athleticism over BBIQ, and just tries to outrun/overpower everybody the vast majority of the time.  Once he gets older and his physical advantage starts fading, I think it's going to hit him a lot more than it his Kobe and MJ.  For example Kobe averaged 27 PPG two seasons ago at the age of 34.  When Lebron reaches 34 I'll be surprised if he's averaging more than ~22 PPG.

Don't get me wrong Lebron is an amazing talent, but I do believe he's been overhyped from day one and that he still is - all the people out there who try to argue he's better than Jordan (etc) are IMO living in dream land.  He'll go down as one of the greatest to ever play the game, but never THE greatest.

this is just a ridiculous post on so many levels I'm not even sure how to respond to it.  but for starters, for James to even reach Kobe's career PPG, he would have to play a 164 games where he averages 14.28 points a game.  Lebron will finish his career in the top 10 for PPG and that is with playing on numerous teams with multiple 22+ game scorers (before and after he arrived).  Very few of the other greats even played with one other player at more than 22 points a game multiple times (and Wade and Love both exceeded 25 a game multiple times).  I don't think people realize how rare that is and how hard it is to still score at Lebron's level given that.

And a guy like Kobe whose career high in assists is 6.  Lebron's career average is 6.9.  At least Jordan had a year above that (though just 1 year).  For the record, even Bird only finished at 6.3 apg (and his last 3 years were all above that so it isn't like he tailed off at the end).  That is what sets Lebron apart from virtually every other high scoring wing of the last 40 years (Oscar and West were also pretty solid passers in their day).   Lebron's TS% of 58.1% is better than Bird (56.4%), Jordan (56.9%), Kobe (55.3%), etc.  And Lebron's peak the last two years in Miami are significantly higher than any of those guys so it isn't just a case of them tailing off at the end of their careers.  Lebron started off better than everyone aside from Jordan and that is with coming from high school and he just keeps getting better and more well rounded.

When all is said and done, Lebron will finish in the top ten in points, assists, and steals.  Top 30 in rebounds and top 50 in blocks.  It really is a shame people don't recognize just how good Lebron is and just what he has accomplished.

I think Lebron brings it on himself to an extent as well as the 24 news cycle. Things like the decision, him saying people had to go back to their crappy jobs after he lost the finals, claiming he never flops cause he is too good at defense (then subsequently getting fined for doing so), refusing to enter a dunk contest when his fans have begged him to do so (and even Magic Johnson offered him a million dollars), but then filming his own dunk contest during practice. The list goes on and on and a lot of that stuff is off putting to a lot of casual fans.

I think he is a tremendous passer, has had mind opening athleticism, has made his teammates so much better (particularly early in Miami and in Cleveland) and does some truly remarkable things on the court. The above mentioned stuff makes it harder to appreciate those kind of accomplishments.

[D.o.s.]

LeBron is definitely the first NBA Superstar to be in his prime during the TMZ era, that's for sure.

[SHAQATTACK]

I m amazed more than anything about LBJ is his health .   He play at this elite level so many year for an insane amount of minutes and yet never been out seriously injured .

His body has like 35 years of beating with all the long series he had had to play at the end of each season .

Incredible gifted with genes .   

Kobe was pretty much healthy , then he hit a wall .

[GratefulCs]

not to completely dismiss this accomplishment, because it is a big deal.  But Ive heard this discussed on the radio a couple times today and now I see it here in this thread and the thing that annoys me is that everyone gushes at where he is right now at such a young age, but no one seems to mention that Lebron came out of high school, didnt go to college, so he has as much as a 4 year head start on all these guys except for Kobe of course.

dont get me wrong, even if you factor games played instead of age, its still a big deal, but people today were acting like hes completely destroying everyone thats played the game

That's true -- and it's funny to see him at the head of all the 'youngest ever to' records, too.

Yeah but he is also 3rd all time in PPG behind only Jordan and Chamberlain.  Now granted he hasn't had his end of the career dip yet, but he has also played on a number of teams (the last 5 years) with other elite scorers.

Yeah but Kevin Durant is only behind him by 0.21 PPG (27.43 vs 27.31) and all the other guys on that list played very late in to their careers (which obviously dropped their scoring averages).  It's pretty hard to compare the career average of a guys who's 30 or so to guys who played until they were 35-40, especially when you consider the fact that Lebron has (for the most part) been very healthy so far in his career.  Guys like Bird, Shaq, Wade and even Jordan went through some pretty significant injuries over their careers that hurt them. 

Anyways what you need to look at is that Jordan averaged 30 PPG for something like 7 or 8 consecutive seasons during his prime.  Wilt Chamberlain averaged 30+ 11 straight seasons.  Kareem   Iverson averaged > 30 PPG five times.  Jerry West four times, Kareem four times, Kobe three times. 

Lebron has averaged >30 PPG only twice, and at 30 years of age he's just reaching the very end of his prime - from what I've seen I feel like he's already showing the faintest signs of decline, so I don't think he'll be putting up those kind of numbers again. 

I also don't think Lebron has that "mental toughness" to sustain those scoring numbers.  Guys like Kobe and Jordan (love them or hate them) were absolute warriors who would play through anything - there was no such thing as pain for those guys, they pushed it to the limit every night.  I believe that (along with BBIQ) has a lot to do with why they were able to continue to be so dominant late in their careers.  Lebron I feel really doesn't have that type of mental toughness, nor the same type of BBIQ.   Watching him play Lebron always looks to me like he's on cruise control - like he has another gear he could go to, but is choosing not to.  He also IMHO depends far more on his athleticism over BBIQ, and just tries to outrun/overpower everybody the vast majority of the time.  Once he gets older and his physical advantage starts fading, I think it's going to hit him a lot more than it his Kobe and MJ.  For example Kobe averaged 27 PPG two seasons ago at the age of 34.  When Lebron reaches 34 I'll be surprised if he's averaging more than ~22 PPG.

Don't get me wrong Lebron is an amazing talent, but I do believe he's been overhyped from day one and that he still is - all the people out there who try to argue he's better than Jordan (etc) are IMO living in dream land.  He'll go down as one of the greatest to ever play the game, but never THE greatest.

this is just a ridiculous post on so many levels I'm not even sure how to respond to it.  but for starters, for James to even reach Kobe's career PPG, he would have to play a 164 games where he averages 14.28 points a game.  Lebron will finish his career in the top 10 for PPG and that is with playing on numerous teams with multiple 22+ game scorers (before and after he arrived).  Very few of the other greats even played with one other player at more than 22 points a game multiple times (and Wade and Love both exceeded 25 a game multiple times).  I don't think people realize how rare that is and how hard it is to still score at Lebron's level given that.

And a guy like Kobe whose career high in assists is 6.  Lebron's career average is 6.9.  At least Jordan had a year above that (though just 1 year).  For the record, even Bird only finished at 6.3 apg (and his last 3 years were all above that so it isn't like he tailed off at the end).  That is what sets Lebron apart from virtually every other high scoring wing of the last 40 years (Oscar and West were also pretty solid passers in their day).   Lebron's TS% of 58.1% is better than Bird (56.4%), Jordan (56.9%), Kobe (55.3%), etc.  And Lebron's peak the last two years in Miami are significantly higher than any of those guys so it isn't just a case of them tailing off at the end of their careers.  Lebron started off better than everyone aside from Jordan and that is with coming from high school and he just keeps getting better and more well rounded.

When all is said and done, Lebron will finish in the top ten in points, assists, and steals.  Top 30 in rebounds and top 50 in blocks.  It really is a shame people don't recognize just how good Lebron is and just what he has accomplished.

I just want to point out that Bird's 6.3 assists is more impressive than bron bron's 6.9


Lebron is always the primary ball handler on every team, and has many hot potato assists. Bird wasn't a ball stopper/pounder

[GratefulCs]

LeBron is definitely the first NBA Superstar to be in his prime during the TMZ era, that's for sure.

That coupled with being one of the most insecure super stars ever creates an interesting plot that haters and lovers can enjoy!

[D.o.s.]

LeBron is definitely the first NBA Superstar to be in his prime during the TMZ era, that's for sure.

That coupled with being one of the most insecure super stars ever creates an interesting plot that haters and lovers can enjoy!

Agreed. For whatever reason (probably because he's a relatively normal dude) LeBron seems to put a lot of stock in being 'liked,' and he's fairly visibly perplexed when that's not the case. Out of all his contemporaries, I'd say that Chris Paul and Rondo are on the other end of the spectrum, with Wade/Bosh/Anthony etc. hovering in between.

[Moranis]

not to completely dismiss this accomplishment, because it is a big deal.  But Ive heard this discussed on the radio a couple times today and now I see it here in this thread and the thing that annoys me is that everyone gushes at where he is right now at such a young age, but no one seems to mention that Lebron came out of high school, didnt go to college, so he has as much as a 4 year head start on all these guys except for Kobe of course.

dont get me wrong, even if you factor games played instead of age, its still a big deal, but people today were acting like hes completely destroying everyone thats played the game

That's true -- and it's funny to see him at the head of all the 'youngest ever to' records, too.

Yeah but he is also 3rd all time in PPG behind only Jordan and Chamberlain.  Now granted he hasn't had his end of the career dip yet, but he has also played on a number of teams (the last 5 years) with other elite scorers.

Yeah but Kevin Durant is only behind him by 0.21 PPG (27.43 vs 27.31) and all the other guys on that list played very late in to their careers (which obviously dropped their scoring averages).  It's pretty hard to compare the career average of a guys who's 30 or so to guys who played until they were 35-40, especially when you consider the fact that Lebron has (for the most part) been very healthy so far in his career.  Guys like Bird, Shaq, Wade and even Jordan went through some pretty significant injuries over their careers that hurt them. 

Anyways what you need to look at is that Jordan averaged 30 PPG for something like 7 or 8 consecutive seasons during his prime.  Wilt Chamberlain averaged 30+ 11 straight seasons.  Kareem   Iverson averaged > 30 PPG five times.  Jerry West four times, Kareem four times, Kobe three times. 

Lebron has averaged >30 PPG only twice, and at 30 years of age he's just reaching the very end of his prime - from what I've seen I feel like he's already showing the faintest signs of decline, so I don't think he'll be putting up those kind of numbers again. 

I also don't think Lebron has that "mental toughness" to sustain those scoring numbers.  Guys like Kobe and Jordan (love them or hate them) were absolute warriors who would play through anything - there was no such thing as pain for those guys, they pushed it to the limit every night.  I believe that (along with BBIQ) has a lot to do with why they were able to continue to be so dominant late in their careers.  Lebron I feel really doesn't have that type of mental toughness, nor the same type of BBIQ.   Watching him play Lebron always looks to me like he's on cruise control - like he has another gear he could go to, but is choosing not to.  He also IMHO depends far more on his athleticism over BBIQ, and just tries to outrun/overpower everybody the vast majority of the time.  Once he gets older and his physical advantage starts fading, I think it's going to hit him a lot more than it his Kobe and MJ.  For example Kobe averaged 27 PPG two seasons ago at the age of 34.  When Lebron reaches 34 I'll be surprised if he's averaging more than ~22 PPG.

Don't get me wrong Lebron is an amazing talent, but I do believe he's been overhyped from day one and that he still is - all the people out there who try to argue he's better than Jordan (etc) are IMO living in dream land.  He'll go down as one of the greatest to ever play the game, but never THE greatest.

this is just a ridiculous post on so many levels I'm not even sure how to respond to it.  but for starters, for James to even reach Kobe's career PPG, he would have to play a 164 games where he averages 14.28 points a game.  Lebron will finish his career in the top 10 for PPG and that is with playing on numerous teams with multiple 22+ game scorers (before and after he arrived).  Very few of the other greats even played with one other player at more than 22 points a game multiple times (and Wade and Love both exceeded 25 a game multiple times).  I don't think people realize how rare that is and how hard it is to still score at Lebron's level given that.

And a guy like Kobe whose career high in assists is 6.  Lebron's career average is 6.9.  At least Jordan had a year above that (though just 1 year).  For the record, even Bird only finished at 6.3 apg (and his last 3 years were all above that so it isn't like he tailed off at the end).  That is what sets Lebron apart from virtually every other high scoring wing of the last 40 years (Oscar and West were also pretty solid passers in their day).   Lebron's TS% of 58.1% is better than Bird (56.4%), Jordan (56.9%), Kobe (55.3%), etc.  And Lebron's peak the last two years in Miami are significantly higher than any of those guys so it isn't just a case of them tailing off at the end of their careers.  Lebron started off better than everyone aside from Jordan and that is with coming from high school and he just keeps getting better and more well rounded.

When all is said and done, Lebron will finish in the top ten in points, assists, and steals.  Top 30 in rebounds and top 50 in blocks.  It really is a shame people don't recognize just how good Lebron is and just what he has accomplished.

I just want to point out that Bird's 6.3 assists is more impressive than bron bron's 6.9


Lebron is always the primary ball handler on every team, and has many hot potato assists. Bird wasn't a ball stopper/pounder

There were a lot more baskets in Bird's time and Lebron's turnover % is lower than Bird's.  Not to mention Lebron is almost a full 10% higher in career AST% than Bird.  Bird also played with a lot better teammates his entire career than Lebron had for the first 7 years of his career, which makes getting an assist a lot easier.  It is silly comments like these that give Celtics' fans the national disdain and homerdom.   

[celticsclay]

not to completely dismiss this accomplishment, because it is a big deal.  But Ive heard this discussed on the radio a couple times today and now I see it here in this thread and the thing that annoys me is that everyone gushes at where he is right now at such a young age, but no one seems to mention that Lebron came out of high school, didnt go to college, so he has as much as a 4 year head start on all these guys except for Kobe of course.

dont get me wrong, even if you factor games played instead of age, its still a big deal, but people today were acting like hes completely destroying everyone thats played the game

That's true -- and it's funny to see him at the head of all the 'youngest ever to' records, too.

Yeah but he is also 3rd all time in PPG behind only Jordan and Chamberlain.  Now granted he hasn't had his end of the career dip yet, but he has also played on a number of teams (the last 5 years) with other elite scorers.

Yeah but Kevin Durant is only behind him by 0.21 PPG (27.43 vs 27.31) and all the other guys on that list played very late in to their careers (which obviously dropped their scoring averages).  It's pretty hard to compare the career average of a guys who's 30 or so to guys who played until they were 35-40, especially when you consider the fact that Lebron has (for the most part) been very healthy so far in his career.  Guys like Bird, Shaq, Wade and even Jordan went through some pretty significant injuries over their careers that hurt them. 

Anyways what you need to look at is that Jordan averaged 30 PPG for something like 7 or 8 consecutive seasons during his prime.  Wilt Chamberlain averaged 30+ 11 straight seasons.  Kareem   Iverson averaged > 30 PPG five times.  Jerry West four times, Kareem four times, Kobe three times. 

Lebron has averaged >30 PPG only twice, and at 30 years of age he's just reaching the very end of his prime - from what I've seen I feel like he's already showing the faintest signs of decline, so I don't think he'll be putting up those kind of numbers again. 

I also don't think Lebron has that "mental toughness" to sustain those scoring numbers.  Guys like Kobe and Jordan (love them or hate them) were absolute warriors who would play through anything - there was no such thing as pain for those guys, they pushed it to the limit every night.  I believe that (along with BBIQ) has a lot to do with why they were able to continue to be so dominant late in their careers.  Lebron I feel really doesn't have that type of mental toughness, nor the same type of BBIQ.   Watching him play Lebron always looks to me like he's on cruise control - like he has another gear he could go to, but is choosing not to.  He also IMHO depends far more on his athleticism over BBIQ, and just tries to outrun/overpower everybody the vast majority of the time.  Once he gets older and his physical advantage starts fading, I think it's going to hit him a lot more than it his Kobe and MJ.  For example Kobe averaged 27 PPG two seasons ago at the age of 34.  When Lebron reaches 34 I'll be surprised if he's averaging more than ~22 PPG.

Don't get me wrong Lebron is an amazing talent, but I do believe he's been overhyped from day one and that he still is - all the people out there who try to argue he's better than Jordan (etc) are IMO living in dream land.  He'll go down as one of the greatest to ever play the game, but never THE greatest.

this is just a ridiculous post on so many levels I'm not even sure how to respond to it.  but for starters, for James to even reach Kobe's career PPG, he would have to play a 164 games where he averages 14.28 points a game.  Lebron will finish his career in the top 10 for PPG and that is with playing on numerous teams with multiple 22+ game scorers (before and after he arrived).  Very few of the other greats even played with one other player at more than 22 points a game multiple times (and Wade and Love both exceeded 25 a game multiple times).  I don't think people realize how rare that is and how hard it is to still score at Lebron's level given that.

And a guy like Kobe whose career high in assists is 6.  Lebron's career average is 6.9.  At least Jordan had a year above that (though just 1 year).  For the record, even Bird only finished at 6.3 apg (and his last 3 years were all above that so it isn't like he tailed off at the end).  That is what sets Lebron apart from virtually every other high scoring wing of the last 40 years (Oscar and West were also pretty solid passers in their day).   Lebron's TS% of 58.1% is better than Bird (56.4%), Jordan (56.9%), Kobe (55.3%), etc.  And Lebron's peak the last two years in Miami are significantly higher than any of those guys so it isn't just a case of them tailing off at the end of their careers.  Lebron started off better than everyone aside from Jordan and that is with coming from high school and he just keeps getting better and more well rounded.

When all is said and done, Lebron will finish in the top ten in points, assists, and steals.  Top 30 in rebounds and top 50 in blocks.  It really is a shame people don't recognize just how good Lebron is and just what he has accomplished.

I just want to point out that Bird's 6.3 assists is more impressive than bron bron's 6.9


Lebron is always the primary ball handler on every team, and has many hot potato assists. Bird wasn't a ball stopper/pounder

There were a lot more baskets in Bird's time and Lebron's turnover % is lower than Bird's.  Not to mention Lebron is almost a full 10% higher in career AST% than Bird.  Bird also played with a lot better teammates his entire career than Lebron had for the first 7 years of his career, which makes getting an assist a lot easier.  It is silly comments like these that give Celtics' fans the national disdain and homerdom.   

Who in their right mind would hold a Celtics fan in disdain for arguing a franchise legend was better at a specific skill than a current star? Fans of every team would do this, especially when both players were very good at the debated skills. Tommy point to GratefulC for having to read that comment.