#DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)

[cometboy]

\ While Goodell was having dinner with Kraft, I believe the hypocrite was just waiting for an opportunity to do something like this. He keeps trying to make up for all his poor decisions by making even poorer ones, trying to save face and his job.

CB

Is this in reference to Kraft or TGH?

sorry, I'm kinda high today on pain killers for a kidney stone procedure yesterday - TGH?

[Donoghus]

\ While Goodell was having dinner with Kraft, I believe the hypocrite was just waiting for an opportunity to do something like this. He keeps trying to make up for all his poor decisions by making even poorer ones, trying to save face and his job.

CB

Is this in reference to Kraft or TGH?

sorry, I'm kinda high today on pain killers for a kidney stone procedure yesterday - TGH?

The Ginger Hammer.  Goodell.

[D.o.s.]

Ooof. Kidney stones. Sympathies there. Hope the drugs are good, though.

[cometboy]

Here's a snippet from the summary of Brady's testimony:

Wasn't it Brady -- along with Manning -- that lobbied the league to allow QBs to break in footballs?  This is the most important tool in his craft; I just flat out don't believe that he had no idea about ball pressure for the first dozen years of his career.

correct - this is also one of the circumstantial pieces of evidence against him that leads the NFL to believe he is guilty in the absence of any reliable hard evidence - i must admit it's all pretty fishy, but the NFL just does't have a strong enough evidential case to drop the hammer on Brady and the Pats.

CB

Right because Brady wouldn't give it to them.

he was under no legal or contractual obligation to provide anything else - the league conclusions may be right, but they are over reaching due to the lack of evidence and just plain shoddy/sloppy investigating. Why do you think Goodell didn't appoint a true independent arbitrator?

CB

edit: replace "true independent arbitrator" with "impartial arbitrator"

He didn't appoint one because he isn't required to. 

Here is the thing, even if Brady didn't have to turn the texts and emails over if they didn't show anything, he should have.  He could have avoided this whole thing.

Moranis -

I'm sympathetic and largely agree with your position. Both the Pats and Brady could have handled this much, much better, especially if they are innocent, just as the league could have. However, it's my understanding the league was provided all team cells or cell records. If there was anything that incriminated Brady within the team (minus other players), it would have showed up there. It's difficult for me to believe there was nothing in those records, but Brady was sloppy enough to incriminate himself with other players, friends, or family. That's just not credible, IMO.

As far as your first point goes, why the double standard? Why is ok to dismiss the commissioners flawed decision to appoint himself as an "impartial" arbitrator to rule on his own decision because he not required to do anything else, but not ok to dismiss Brady's actions to not provide information he is not required to provide, which IMO probably doesn't offer anything new? However, one-liners like "Brady destroys cell phone" do provide the league with great soundbites to help sway public opinion.

CB

I'm not saying there is a double standard, I'm saying that Brady appeared less than truthful at times in his testimony and when coupled with his refusal to provide transcripts of text messages, makes it seem like he has something to hide.  Gives the impression to the league there is something there, which easily could have been refuted by providing the information to refute it.  It isn't a double standard at all.  Just because you don't have to do something, doesn't mean you shouldn't.

When what you do has direct impact on what other players in your union might have to do in the future, this is a little less cut-and-dry.

The NFLPA absolutely does not want a situation where the players are compelled to give their personal belongings to the league when they don't have to. I imagine you'd feel similarly about your current employer asking for the same thing, regardless of whether you were or were not doing anything wrong.

There's is a lot of posturing and gamesmanship to this whole thing on both sides. Goodell has looked bad in several recent disciplinary decisions and he wants to show he is a strong commissioner, not to mention the pressure from other owners on him to rein in the Pats. I'm convinced Harbaugh triggered this whole thing because Brady embarrassed him in his postgame interview. Virtually nothing that has been done in this case can be viewed without suspicion of ulterior motives. In some ways, the same can be said of Brady and the Pats. There are issues of team and personal legacy, protecting Kraft's position of power in the league, union issues, etc. All of this has detracted from any attempt at full and open disclosure, truth, and fairness, although I suppose that is almost always true in any legal or disciplinary hearing.

CB

[cometboy]

Ooof. Kidney stones. Sympathies there. Hope the drugs are good, though.

I figured that's what you meant, but didn't pick up on the acronym. I meant TGH. He's had a rough year. The Pats, on the other hand, have had a very good year to the chagrin of a lot of people around the league.

Second time around for me and stones. I highly recommend avoiding them at all costs. The drugs are good, though! Lol

CB

[BballTim]

Here's a snippet from the summary of Brady's testimony:

[Brady] denied discussing air-pressure levels with the ball boys or even thinking about how inflated the footballs were when he selected them. He said he was not aware of the rules that govern the inflation levels of footballs until after an Oct. 16, 2014, game against the New York Jets in which he complained about the size of the footballs.

With the caveat that I haven't read the actually testimony, does that ring true to anybody?  Almost every QB in the media has indicated that he had a preference.  It just defies logic that Tom Brady, a top-10 QB of all-time, would not understand the rules about the football, or would even think about inflation in terms of having a preference.

Wasn't it Brady -- along with Manning -- that lobbied the league to allow QBs to break in footballs?  This is the most important tool in his craft; I just flat out don't believe that he had no idea about ball pressure for the first dozen years of his career.

The NFL appears slimy to me, but so does Brady.

  It wasn't to break in footballs, it was to have visiting teams supply their own balls so how inflated they were and how broken in they were would be to the particular quarterback's liking. It looks like one of many hard to believe things he's said in this.

That came about because Wilson sent new footballs with a different texture to all the QBs asking for their feedback.  The QBs responded by saying they did not like the new footballs and requested that rather than experimenting with new football designs, let them use their own.  Brady and Manning's names were on the request because of their fame.

  It was also, according to Brady, about how inflated the different qbs wanted the balls to be.

Do you have that quote?

  I'll find it when I get a chance. I'm surprised you know so much about the situation without knowing that. I think it was the first thing that popped up on google.

[knuckleballer]

Here's a snippet from the summary of Brady's testimony:

[Brady] denied discussing air-pressure levels with the ball boys or even thinking about how inflated the footballs were when he selected them. He said he was not aware of the rules that govern the inflation levels of footballs until after an Oct. 16, 2014, game against the New York Jets in which he complained about the size of the footballs.

With the caveat that I haven't read the actually testimony, does that ring true to anybody?  Almost every QB in the media has indicated that he had a preference.  It just defies logic that Tom Brady, a top-10 QB of all-time, would not understand the rules about the football, or would even think about inflation in terms of having a preference.

Wasn't it Brady -- along with Manning -- that lobbied the league to allow QBs to break in footballs?  This is the most important tool in his craft; I just flat out don't believe that he had no idea about ball pressure for the first dozen years of his career.

The NFL appears slimy to me, but so does Brady.

  It wasn't to break in footballs, it was to have visiting teams supply their own balls so how inflated they were and how broken in they were would be to the particular quarterback's liking. It looks like one of many hard to believe things he's said in this.

That came about because Wilson sent new footballs with a different texture to all the QBs asking for their feedback.  The QBs responded by saying they did not like the new footballs and requested that rather than experimenting with new football designs, let them use their own.  Brady and Manning's names were on the request because of their fame.

  It was also, according to Brady, about how inflated the different qbs wanted the balls to be.

Do you have that quote?

  I'll find it when I get a chance. I'm surprised you know so much about the situation without knowing that. I think it was the first thing that popped up on google.

You're right.  Here's the quote “The thing is, every quarterback likes it a little bit different,” Brady told the Sun-Sentinel at the time. “Some like them blown up a little bit more, some like them a little more thin, some like them a little more new, some like them really broken in.”

[cometboy]

\ While Goodell was having dinner with Kraft, I believe the hypocrite was just waiting for an opportunity to do something like this. He keeps trying to make up for all his poor decisions by making even poorer ones, trying to save face and his job.

CB

Is this in reference to Kraft or TGH?

sorry, I'm kinda high today on pain killers for a kidney stone procedure yesterday - TGH?

The Ginger Hammer.  Goodell.

Thanks Donoghus - I originally thought D.O.S provided that answer

CB

[PhoSita]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/08/04/shaughnessy/Fef7oEvS7vuqW3CCZveiyL/story.html?p1=Article_InThisSection_Bottom

It is the sports version of Red States vs. Blue States, Fox News vs. MSNBC.

You either believe the Patriots cheated (a small infraction by any measure) and got caught. Or you believe the NFL is out to get the Patriots. There is no middle ground.

Pardon me, Mr. Shaugnessy, but am I allowed to believe both that the Patriots cheated -- a small infraction by any measure -- and that the NFL is out to get them, for a variety of reasons, obvious and obscure?

[Donoghus]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/08/04/shaughnessy/Fef7oEvS7vuqW3CCZveiyL/story.html?p1=Article_InThisSection_Bottom

It is the sports version of Red States vs. Blue States, Fox News vs. MSNBC.

You either believe the Patriots cheated (a small infraction by any measure) and got caught. Or you believe the NFL is out to get the Patriots. There is no middle ground.

Pardon me, Mr. Shaugnessy, but am I allowed to believe both that the Patriots cheated -- a small infraction by any measure -- and that the NFL is out to get them, for a variety of reasons, obvious and obscure?

I don't know if the NFL was necessarily out to get them.  I think the NFL got themselves in a position where things have kept snowballing since January and they passed the point of no return a long time ago (time in between AFCCG & SB49) and now are stuck in their ways in a stubborn refusal to admit that they were wrong.

[cometboy]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/08/04/shaughnessy/Fef7oEvS7vuqW3CCZveiyL/story.html?p1=Article_InThisSection_Bottom

It is the sports version of Red States vs. Blue States, Fox News vs. MSNBC.

You either believe the Patriots cheated (a small infraction by any measure) and got caught. Or you believe the NFL is out to get the Patriots. There is no middle ground.

Pardon me, Mr. Shaugnessy, but am I allowed to believe both that the Patriots cheated -- a small infraction by any measure -- and that the NFL is out to get them, for a variety of reasons, obvious and obscure?

just because we're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get us

[PhoSita]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/08/04/shaughnessy/Fef7oEvS7vuqW3CCZveiyL/story.html?p1=Article_InThisSection_Bottom

It is the sports version of Red States vs. Blue States, Fox News vs. MSNBC.

You either believe the Patriots cheated (a small infraction by any measure) and got caught. Or you believe the NFL is out to get the Patriots. There is no middle ground.

Pardon me, Mr. Shaugnessy, but am I allowed to believe both that the Patriots cheated -- a small infraction by any measure -- and that the NFL is out to get them, for a variety of reasons, obvious and obscure?

I don't know if the NFL was necessarily out to get them.  I think the NFL got themselves in a position where things have kept snowballing since January and they passed the point of no return a long time ago (time in between AFCCG & SB49) and now are stuck in their ways in a stubborn refusal to admit that they were wrong.

I guess "out to get them" is too loaded a phrase.

I think the NFL was given an opportunity to go after the Patriots because the Colts went out of their way to give them one.  If anybody was "out to get" the Pats, it was the Colts.

The league office, though, has handled this in a way that suggests they particularly relished the opportunity to make a big deal out of investigating and punishing the Patriots.  I think that has a lot to do with trying to rehab their image in the wake of all of the domestic violence stuff that happened last year, and I think it also has a lot to do with how the Patriots have handled themselves, in the past and throughout the whole Deflategate nonsense.

[Roy H.]

So, I finally got a chance to read through Brady's testimony...  He does not come across as credible at all to me. 

I think that this was a sloppy investigation by the NFL, I think that the punishment has no precedent, I think that the league probably knew exactly what result it was looking for...  but I think Brady is lying through his teeth.

[PhoSita]

So, I finally got a chance to read through Brady's testimony...  He does not come across as credible at all to me. 

I think that this was a sloppy investigation by the NFL, I think that the punishment has no precedent, I think that the league probably knew exactly what result it was looking for...  but I think Brady is lying through his teeth.

It came across to me like he was being truthful at certain points -- the reasoning he gave for destroying the phone rang true to me.

At other points, like where he claims again and again that he's never talked about or thought about the inflation level of the footballs, that sounds false to me.

[Jon]

So, I finally got a chance to read through Brady's testimony...  He does not come across as credible at all to me. 

I think that this was a sloppy investigation by the NFL, I think that the punishment has no precedent, I think that the league probably knew exactly what result it was looking for...  but I think Brady is lying through his teeth.

It came across to me like he was being truthful at certain points -- the reasoning he gave for destroying the phone rang true to me.

At other points, like where he claims again and again that he's never talked about or thought about the inflation level of the footballs, that sounds false to me.

I agree with the latter statement.  But I wonder if his lawyers advised him to say that only because the NFL so egregiously screwed up by not giving the players copies of the rule book. 

So essentially, the player's union can now equate this to Brady getting his license suspended for getting pulled over for doing 65 in a 55 when there weren't any speed limits posted. 

Doesn't mean he's not lying, but it still may not mean that he had anything to do with deflating the balls.