#DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)

[Moranis]

Here's a snippet from the summary of Brady's testimony:

Wasn't it Brady -- along with Manning -- that lobbied the league to allow QBs to break in footballs?  This is the most important tool in his craft; I just flat out don't believe that he had no idea about ball pressure for the first dozen years of his career.

correct - this is also one of the circumstantial pieces of evidence against him that leads the NFL to believe he is guilty in the absence of any reliable hard evidence - i must admit it's all pretty fishy, but the NFL just does't have a strong enough evidential case to drop the hammer on Brady and the Pats.

CB

Right because Brady wouldn't give it to them.

he was under no legal or contractual obligation to provide anything else - the league conclusions may be right, but they are over reaching due to the lack of evidence and just plain shoddy/sloppy investigating. Why do you think Goodell didn't appoint a true independent arbitrator?

CB

edit: replace "true independent arbitrator" with "impartial arbitrator"

He didn't appoint one because he isn't required to. 

Here is the thing, even if Brady didn't have to turn the texts and emails over if they didn't show anything, he should have.  He could have avoided this whole thing. 

[BballTim]

Here's a snippet from the summary of Brady's testimony:

[Brady] denied discussing air-pressure levels with the ball boys or even thinking about how inflated the footballs were when he selected them. He said he was not aware of the rules that govern the inflation levels of footballs until after an Oct. 16, 2014, game against the New York Jets in which he complained about the size of the footballs.

With the caveat that I haven't read the actually testimony, does that ring true to anybody?  Almost every QB in the media has indicated that he had a preference.  It just defies logic that Tom Brady, a top-10 QB of all-time, would not understand the rules about the football, or would even think about inflation in terms of having a preference.

Wasn't it Brady -- along with Manning -- that lobbied the league to allow QBs to break in footballs?  This is the most important tool in his craft; I just flat out don't believe that he had no idea about ball pressure for the first dozen years of his career.

The NFL appears slimy to me, but so does Brady.

  It wasn't to break in footballs, it was to have visiting teams supply their own balls so how inflated they were and how broken in they were would be to the particular quarterback's liking. It looks like one of many hard to believe things he's said in this.

[knuckleballer]

Here's a snippet from the summary of Brady's testimony:

[Brady] denied discussing air-pressure levels with the ball boys or even thinking about how inflated the footballs were when he selected them. He said he was not aware of the rules that govern the inflation levels of footballs until after an Oct. 16, 2014, game against the New York Jets in which he complained about the size of the footballs.

With the caveat that I haven't read the actually testimony, does that ring true to anybody?  Almost every QB in the media has indicated that he had a preference.  It just defies logic that Tom Brady, a top-10 QB of all-time, would not understand the rules about the football, or would even think about inflation in terms of having a preference.

Wasn't it Brady -- along with Manning -- that lobbied the league to allow QBs to break in footballs?  This is the most important tool in his craft; I just flat out don't believe that he had no idea about ball pressure for the first dozen years of his career.

The NFL appears slimy to me, but so does Brady.

Just out of curiosity, do you know what the required psi level is for an NBA basketball? Do you think
Garnett or Pierce knows?  Do you think they know what their preferred psi level is?  Back in 2006, the NBA tested out new balls and the players complained about the texture, did the psi levels come up at that time?

[BudweiserCeltic]

Here's a snippet from the summary of Brady's testimony:

[Brady] denied discussing air-pressure levels with the ball boys or even thinking about how inflated the footballs were when he selected them. He said he was not aware of the rules that govern the inflation levels of footballs until after an Oct. 16, 2014, game against the New York Jets in which he complained about the size of the footballs.

With the caveat that I haven't read the actually testimony, does that ring true to anybody?  Almost every QB in the media has indicated that he had a preference.  It just defies logic that Tom Brady, a top-10 QB of all-time, would not understand the rules about the football, or would even think about inflation in terms of having a preference.

Wasn't it Brady -- along with Manning -- that lobbied the league to allow QBs to break in footballs?  This is the most important tool in his craft; I just flat out don't believe that he had no idea about ball pressure for the first dozen years of his career.

The NFL appears slimy to me, but so does Brady.

Yeah just doesn't make sense.  Cris Carter was on Mike and Mike this morning and basically flat out called Brady a liar.  Said there was no way he didn't know the rules. 

Couple that with him not turning over the cell phone (or even the transcripts) and the few other statements he made that just lack veracity and it isn't hard to see why the NFL ruled the way they did.  I mean you have a guy that is flat out lying to you, withholding evidence, and generally not fully cooperating.  Makes you think he is doing that because there is something to hide.  I just don't see how the court overturns this.  Cover-ups are almost always worse than the actual crime. 

And yet the text evidence suggest that Brady didn't know then since he ASKED for the rules.

Playing devil's advocate, there's a difference from someone telling you:  "Yo' dude, I like my balls soft" and "Hey Mr. Ball Boy, I want you to inflate the balls to exactly this PSI level".

Also, haven't been able to go through the whole transcript, but a distinction has to be made between who the Ball Boys are, and with whom Brady (if anyone) would discuss those issues with.

[knuckleballer]

Here's a snippet from the summary of Brady's testimony:

[Brady] denied discussing air-pressure levels with the ball boys or even thinking about how inflated the footballs were when he selected them. He said he was not aware of the rules that govern the inflation levels of footballs until after an Oct. 16, 2014, game against the New York Jets in which he complained about the size of the footballs.

With the caveat that I haven't read the actually testimony, does that ring true to anybody?  Almost every QB in the media has indicated that he had a preference.  It just defies logic that Tom Brady, a top-10 QB of all-time, would not understand the rules about the football, or would even think about inflation in terms of having a preference.

Wasn't it Brady -- along with Manning -- that lobbied the league to allow QBs to break in footballs?  This is the most important tool in his craft; I just flat out don't believe that he had no idea about ball pressure for the first dozen years of his career.

The NFL appears slimy to me, but so does Brady.

  It wasn't to break in footballs, it was to have visiting teams supply their own balls so how inflated they were and how broken in they were would be to the particular quarterback's liking. It looks like one of many hard to believe things he's said in this.

That came about because Wilson sent new footballs with a different texture to all the QBs asking for their feedback.  The QBs responded by saying they did not like the new footballs and requested that rather than experimenting with new football designs, let them use their own.  Brady and Manning's names were on the request because of their fame.

[Fan from VT]

Here's a snippet from the summary of Brady's testimony:

[Brady] denied discussing air-pressure levels with the ball boys or even thinking about how inflated the footballs were when he selected them. He said he was not aware of the rules that govern the inflation levels of footballs until after an Oct. 16, 2014, game against the New York Jets in which he complained about the size of the footballs.

With the caveat that I haven't read the actually testimony, does that ring true to anybody?  Almost every QB in the media has indicated that he had a preference.  It just defies logic that Tom Brady, a top-10 QB of all-time, would not understand the rules about the football, or would even think about inflation in terms of having a preference.

Wasn't it Brady -- along with Manning -- that lobbied the league to allow QBs to break in footballs?  This is the most important tool in his craft; I just flat out don't believe that he had no idea about ball pressure for the first dozen years of his career.

The NFL appears slimy to me, but so does Brady.

Just out of curiosity, do you know what the required psi level is for an NBA basketball? Do you think
Garnett or Pierce knows?  Do you think they know what their preferred psi level is?  Back in 2006, the NBA tested out new balls and the players complained about the texture, did the psi levels come up at that time?

This is where i land. Brady is not denying knowing the psi now. Brady is not denying lobbying the league for each team to have the roght to bring their own balls. But he isnt the only on. It is very likely that for the first decade he is given regulation balls that have undergone various scuffing, etc (like every team does) and he says "i like this one" so they prep them like that. This is very easy to do without actually knowing the psi desired, the composition of leather, the amountt of scuffing performed, the diameter of the football, the lwngth of the football, etc. Same how a basketball player can just say a ball doesnt feel right without knowing the precise diameter amd psi of a game ball.

Then one game the refs overpump the balls dramatically from where brady likes it, so he looks up the range. In fact, the bestpositive existing evidence in this whole thing is that brady asked for legal but low end of legal balls. That is not suspicious or rule violating behavior. Why ignore that?

[BballTim]

Here's a snippet from the summary of Brady's testimony:

[Brady] denied discussing air-pressure levels with the ball boys or even thinking about how inflated the footballs were when he selected them. He said he was not aware of the rules that govern the inflation levels of footballs until after an Oct. 16, 2014, game against the New York Jets in which he complained about the size of the footballs.

With the caveat that I haven't read the actually testimony, does that ring true to anybody?  Almost every QB in the media has indicated that he had a preference.  It just defies logic that Tom Brady, a top-10 QB of all-time, would not understand the rules about the football, or would even think about inflation in terms of having a preference.

Wasn't it Brady -- along with Manning -- that lobbied the league to allow QBs to break in footballs?  This is the most important tool in his craft; I just flat out don't believe that he had no idea about ball pressure for the first dozen years of his career.

The NFL appears slimy to me, but so does Brady.

  It wasn't to break in footballs, it was to have visiting teams supply their own balls so how inflated they were and how broken in they were would be to the particular quarterback's liking. It looks like one of many hard to believe things he's said in this.

That came about because Wilson sent new footballs with a different texture to all the QBs asking for their feedback.  The QBs responded by saying they did not like the new footballs and requested that rather than experimenting with new football designs, let them use their own.  Brady and Manning's names were on the request because of their fame.

  It was also, according to Brady, about how inflated the different qbs wanted the balls to be.

[cometboy]

Here's a snippet from the summary of Brady's testimony:

Wasn't it Brady -- along with Manning -- that lobbied the league to allow QBs to break in footballs?  This is the most important tool in his craft; I just flat out don't believe that he had no idea about ball pressure for the first dozen years of his career.

correct - this is also one of the circumstantial pieces of evidence against him that leads the NFL to believe he is guilty in the absence of any reliable hard evidence - i must admit it's all pretty fishy, but the NFL just does't have a strong enough evidential case to drop the hammer on Brady and the Pats.

CB

Right because Brady wouldn't give it to them.

he was under no legal or contractual obligation to provide anything else - the league conclusions may be right, but they are over reaching due to the lack of evidence and just plain shoddy/sloppy investigating. Why do you think Goodell didn't appoint a true independent arbitrator?

CB

edit: replace "true independent arbitrator" with "impartial arbitrator"

He didn't appoint one because he isn't required to. 

Here is the thing, even if Brady didn't have to turn the texts and emails over if they didn't show anything, he should have.  He could have avoided this whole thing.

Moranis -

I'm sympathetic and largely agree with your position. Both the Pats and Brady could have handled this much, much better, especially if they are innocent, just as the league could have. However, it's my understanding the league was provided all team cells or cell records. If there was anything that incriminated Brady within the team (minus other players), it would have showed up there. It's difficult for me to believe there was nothing in those records, but Brady was sloppy enough to incriminate himself with other players, friends, or family. That's just not credible, IMO.

As far as your first point goes, why the double standard? Why is ok to dismiss the commissioners flawed decision to appoint himself as an "impartial" arbitrator to rule on his own decision because he not required to do anything else, but not ok to dismiss Brady's actions to not provide information he is not required to provide, which IMO probably doesn't offer anything new? However, one-liners like "Brady destroys cell phone" do provide the league with great soundbites to help sway public opinion.

CB

[knuckleballer]

Here's a snippet from the summary of Brady's testimony:

[Brady] denied discussing air-pressure levels with the ball boys or even thinking about how inflated the footballs were when he selected them. He said he was not aware of the rules that govern the inflation levels of footballs until after an Oct. 16, 2014, game against the New York Jets in which he complained about the size of the footballs.

With the caveat that I haven't read the actually testimony, does that ring true to anybody?  Almost every QB in the media has indicated that he had a preference.  It just defies logic that Tom Brady, a top-10 QB of all-time, would not understand the rules about the football, or would even think about inflation in terms of having a preference.

Wasn't it Brady -- along with Manning -- that lobbied the league to allow QBs to break in footballs?  This is the most important tool in his craft; I just flat out don't believe that he had no idea about ball pressure for the first dozen years of his career.

The NFL appears slimy to me, but so does Brady.

  It wasn't to break in footballs, it was to have visiting teams supply their own balls so how inflated they were and how broken in they were would be to the particular quarterback's liking. It looks like one of many hard to believe things he's said in this.

That came about because Wilson sent new footballs with a different texture to all the QBs asking for their feedback.  The QBs responded by saying they did not like the new footballs and requested that rather than experimenting with new football designs, let them use their own.  Brady and Manning's names were on the request because of their fame.

  It was also, according to Brady, about how inflated the different qbs wanted the balls to be.

Do you have that quote?

[knuckleballer]

Here's a snippet from the summary of Brady's testimony:

Wasn't it Brady -- along with Manning -- that lobbied the league to allow QBs to break in footballs?  This is the most important tool in his craft; I just flat out don't believe that he had no idea about ball pressure for the first dozen years of his career.

correct - this is also one of the circumstantial pieces of evidence against him that leads the NFL to believe he is guilty in the absence of any reliable hard evidence - i must admit it's all pretty fishy, but the NFL just does't have a strong enough evidential case to drop the hammer on Brady and the Pats.

CB

Right because Brady wouldn't give it to them.

he was under no legal or contractual obligation to provide anything else - the league conclusions may be right, but they are over reaching due to the lack of evidence and just plain shoddy/sloppy investigating. Why do you think Goodell didn't appoint a true independent arbitrator?

CB

edit: replace "true independent arbitrator" with "impartial arbitrator"

He didn't appoint one because he isn't required to. 

Here is the thing, even if Brady didn't have to turn the texts and emails over if they didn't show anything, he should have.  He could have avoided this whole thing.

Moranis -

I'm sympathetic and largely agree with your position. Both the Pats and Brady could have handled this much, much better, especially if they are innocent, just as the league could have. However, it's my understanding the league was provided all team cells or cell records. If there was anything that incriminated Brady within the team (minus other players), it would have showed up there. It's difficult for me to believe there was nothing in those records, but Brady was sloppy enough to incriminate himself with other players, friends, or family. That's just not credible, IMO.

As far as your first point goes, why the double standard? Why is ok to dismiss the commissioners flawed decision to appoint himself as an "impartial" arbitrator to rule on his own decision because he not required to do anything else, but not ok to dismiss Brady's actions to not provide information he is not required to provide, which IMO probably doesn't offer anything new? However, one-liners like "Brady destroys cell phone" do provide the league with great soundbites to help sway public opinion.

CB

In hindsight, the Patriots could have handled it better, but let's not forget that they were working off lies told by the NFL.

[Evantime34]

Here's a snippet from the summary of Brady's testimony:

[Brady] denied discussing air-pressure levels with the ball boys or even thinking about how inflated the footballs were when he selected them. He said he was not aware of the rules that govern the inflation levels of footballs until after an Oct. 16, 2014, game against the New York Jets in which he complained about the size of the footballs.

With the caveat that I haven't read the actually testimony, does that ring true to anybody?  Almost every QB in the media has indicated that he had a preference.  It just defies logic that Tom Brady, a top-10 QB of all-time, would not understand the rules about the football, or would even think about inflation in terms of having a preference.

Wasn't it Brady -- along with Manning -- that lobbied the league to allow QBs to break in footballs?  This is the most important tool in his craft; I just flat out don't believe that he had no idea about ball pressure for the first dozen years of his career.

The NFL appears slimy to me, but so does Brady.

As others have said he didn't know the PSI levels but he lobbied to be able to break down the leather of the footballs using substances like baseball glove oil.

What is pretty important (at least in my mind) about this part of the appeal is that Brady had the equipment guy highlight the page in the rulebook that talked about the specific PSI and give it to the refs because the balls were overinflated past the legal limit.

So to recap, the NFL suspended Brady 4 games and fined the Patriots draft picks as punishment for breaking a rule that the refs didn't seem to enforce OR EVEN KNOW!

I'm a Patriots fan and I think they clearly did something against the rules. The problem is the NFL is levying unfair punishment because the rules that were broken were essentially viewed as inconsequential violations that were only worthy of a fine in every other situation.

[Donoghus]

Here's a snippet from the summary of Brady's testimony:

Wasn't it Brady -- along with Manning -- that lobbied the league to allow QBs to break in footballs?  This is the most important tool in his craft; I just flat out don't believe that he had no idea about ball pressure for the first dozen years of his career.

correct - this is also one of the circumstantial pieces of evidence against him that leads the NFL to believe he is guilty in the absence of any reliable hard evidence - i must admit it's all pretty fishy, but the NFL just does't have a strong enough evidential case to drop the hammer on Brady and the Pats.

CB

Right because Brady wouldn't give it to them.

he was under no legal or contractual obligation to provide anything else - the league conclusions may be right, but they are over reaching due to the lack of evidence and just plain shoddy/sloppy investigating. Why do you think Goodell didn't appoint a true independent arbitrator?

CB

edit: replace "true independent arbitrator" with "impartial arbitrator"

He didn't appoint one because he isn't required to. 

Here is the thing, even if Brady didn't have to turn the texts and emails over if they didn't show anything, he should have.  He could have avoided this whole thing.

Moranis -

I'm sympathetic and largely agree with your position. Both the Pats and Brady could have handled this much, much better, especially if they are innocent, just as the league could have. However, it's my understanding the league was provided all team cells or cell records. If there was anything that incriminated Brady within the team (minus other players), it would have showed up there. It's difficult for me to believe there was nothing in those records, but Brady was sloppy enough to incriminate himself with other players, friends, or family. That's just not credible, IMO.

As far as your first point goes, why the double standard? Why is ok to dismiss the commissioners flawed decision to appoint himself as an "impartial" arbitrator to rule on his own decision because he not required to do anything else, but not ok to dismiss Brady's actions to not provide information he is not required to provide, which IMO probably doesn't offer anything new? However, one-liners like "Brady destroys cell phone" do provide the league with great soundbites to help sway public opinion.

CB

In hindsight, the Patriots could have handled it better, but let's not forget that they were working off lies told by the NFL.

True.  They've been on the defense since the start back in January.  You usually don't look your best when you're on the defensive.  For the most part, outside of New England, they lost the PR fight on this a long time ago.

[colincb]

http://deadspin.com/the-full-story-of-tom-bradys-destroyed-cell-phone-1722190784?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

[Evantime34]

Here's a snippet from the summary of Brady's testimony:

Wasn't it Brady -- along with Manning -- that lobbied the league to allow QBs to break in footballs?  This is the most important tool in his craft; I just flat out don't believe that he had no idea about ball pressure for the first dozen years of his career.

correct - this is also one of the circumstantial pieces of evidence against him that leads the NFL to believe he is guilty in the absence of any reliable hard evidence - i must admit it's all pretty fishy, but the NFL just does't have a strong enough evidential case to drop the hammer on Brady and the Pats.

CB

Right because Brady wouldn't give it to them.

he was under no legal or contractual obligation to provide anything else - the league conclusions may be right, but they are over reaching due to the lack of evidence and just plain shoddy/sloppy investigating. Why do you think Goodell didn't appoint a true independent arbitrator?

CB

edit: replace "true independent arbitrator" with "impartial arbitrator"

He didn't appoint one because he isn't required to. 

Here is the thing, even if Brady didn't have to turn the texts and emails over if they didn't show anything, he should have.  He could have avoided this whole thing.

Moranis -

I'm sympathetic and largely agree with your position. Both the Pats and Brady could have handled this much, much better, especially if they are innocent, just as the league could have. However, it's my understanding the league was provided all team cells or cell records. If there was anything that incriminated Brady within the team (minus other players), it would have showed up there. It's difficult for me to believe there was nothing in those records, but Brady was sloppy enough to incriminate himself with other players, friends, or family. That's just not credible, IMO.

As far as your first point goes, why the double standard? Why is ok to dismiss the commissioners flawed decision to appoint himself as an "impartial" arbitrator to rule on his own decision because he not required to do anything else, but not ok to dismiss Brady's actions to not provide information he is not required to provide, which IMO probably doesn't offer anything new? However, one-liners like "Brady destroys cell phone" do provide the league with great soundbites to help sway public opinion.

CB

In hindsight, the Patriots could have handled it better, but let's not forget that they were working off lies told by the NFL.

True.  They've been on the defense since the start back in January.  You usually don't look your best when you're on the defensive.  For the most part, outside of New England, they lost the PR fight on this a long time ago.

It didn't help their PR that the NFL consistently leaked false information to the media and then made no effort to correct the information once it was proven false. The fact that ESPN has been the mouthpiece for every lie the NFL wants to tell made the Patriots job almost impossible.

[Donoghus]

Also, a few thoughts on the transcript (haven't read the entire thing, just excerpts).

- Does anyone come out of that looking worse than Troy Vincent?

- So the Ravens did tip off the Colts (which was widely suspected) but denied by Harbaugh

- Sorta reinforces the belief that the league office is filled with buffoons

- Ryan Grigson sure is whiny

- Lawyers in.  Period.