#DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)

[smicker16]

Shaughnessy is right, I think, when he says this:

Sorry, I think the Patriots are guilty.

I know that is not a popular opinion and I could very well be wrong, but from the jump they’ve behaved like a guilty party, and I’ve spent enough time around them to believe this is exactly the kind of microsystem they would design in order to get a small edge. And the league-hating Belichick and ever-angry Jonathan Kraft would never admit guilt. No matter how small the infraction. Better to deny all and see if the league can make it stick.

On the other hand, I also believe the league has played dirty and gone out of its way to embarrass and punish New England for a petty crime.

This is probably the first time I've ever agreed with Shaughnessy.

Idk they didnt really fight Spygate that much even though they just placed a camera in the wrong spot so fighting like this really has not happened before not sure what Shaughnessy means by that.

He means the Patriots always are looking for ways to get right up to the edge of the rules.  For example, you have their handling of injury reporting (not crossing the line, but certainly not always living up to the spirit of the rules).  You have their sneaky substitutions against Baltimore in the playoffs last year (again deemed legal, but again seems a little sneaky and against the spirit of the rules).  I'm sure there are other examples of that sort of gray area type stuff.  And then you have Spygate where they in fact crossed the line and were hit hard for it.

Ahh yeah from that perspective they do definitely tip toe the line like other organizations for sure.  But I was referring to this statement in there where he says "And the league-hating Belichick and ever-angry Jonathan Kraft would never admit guilt."  I guess if you ignore the fact that Belichick did admit guilt for Spygate without much of a fight that may be true.  But that comment seems a little off and makes his whole point a little less convincing.

[GratefulCs]

Shaughnessy is right, I think, when he says this:

Sorry, I think the Patriots are guilty.

I know that is not a popular opinion and I could very well be wrong, but from the jump they’ve behaved like a guilty party, and I’ve spent enough time around them to believe this is exactly the kind of microsystem they would design in order to get a small edge. And the league-hating Belichick and ever-angry Jonathan Kraft would never admit guilt. No matter how small the infraction. Better to deny all and see if the league can make it stick.

On the other hand, I also believe the league has played dirty and gone out of its way to embarrass and punish New England for a petty crime.

he said "not popular opinion" ?  What is he talking about? That is literally THE popular opinion

[knuckleballer]

Shaughnessy is right, I think, when he says this:

Sorry, I think the Patriots are guilty.

I know that is not a popular opinion and I could very well be wrong, but from the jump they’ve behaved like a guilty party, and I’ve spent enough time around them to believe this is exactly the kind of microsystem they would design in order to get a small edge. And the league-hating Belichick and ever-angry Jonathan Kraft would never admit guilt. No matter how small the infraction. Better to deny all and see if the league can make it stick.

On the other hand, I also believe the league has played dirty and gone out of its way to embarrass and punish New England for a petty crime.

This is probably the first time I've ever agreed with Shaughnessy.

If you find yourself agreeing with Shaughnessy, maybe you should question yourself. 

[Roy H.]

Shaughnessy is right, I think, when he says this:

Sorry, I think the Patriots are guilty.

I know that is not a popular opinion and I could very well be wrong, but from the jump they’ve behaved like a guilty party, and I’ve spent enough time around them to believe this is exactly the kind of microsystem they would design in order to get a small edge. And the league-hating Belichick and ever-angry Jonathan Kraft would never admit guilt. No matter how small the infraction. Better to deny all and see if the league can make it stick.

On the other hand, I also believe the league has played dirty and gone out of its way to embarrass and punish New England for a petty crime.

This is probably the first time I've ever agreed with Shaughnessy.

If you find yourself agreeing with Shaughnessy, maybe you should question yourself.

Eh.  A broken clock is right twice a day.

I think that the Patriots probably cheated.  I think that it's extremely likely that Brady lied.  Between hiding behind lawyers and the union, destroying his phone (but not the prior one), conveniently forgetting conversations, statements contradicted by the equipment managers, his feigned ignorance about air pressure in footballs, etc., Brady is acting very much like a guilty party.

At the same time, I see this as a fairly minor infraction, or, as DS says, a petty crime.

In an ideal world, the NFL would have fined the Pats $25k per game since the infamous Jets game, the team would lose a mid-to-late round draft pick, and Brady would be fined a game check.  Then, everybody could have moved on, and the rules and penalties could have been clarified and stiffened moving forward.

[knuckleballer]

A broken clock is right twice a day only by accident. 

Answer me this if you are interested, why should there be any suspicion when the Patriots balls measured exactly as they were expected to using the gauge the ref said he used?  Keep in mind the ref used a very different looking gauge to the other, just a few hours before this blew up, to measure over 50 balls. 

As a lawyer, what would your reaction be if the police accused your client of a crime who they had no reason to suspect other than their own lies and then used circumstantial evidence to try to convict?

What would your reaction be to your client's behavior when he was defending himself from incriminating and completely false lies told by the police.... and the judge who was to hear the case?

[KeepRondo]

Shaughnessy is right, I think, when he says this:

Sorry, I think the Patriots are guilty.

I know that is not a popular opinion and I could very well be wrong, but from the jump they’ve behaved like a guilty party, and I’ve spent enough time around them to believe this is exactly the kind of microsystem they would design in order to get a small edge. And the league-hating Belichick and ever-angry Jonathan Kraft would never admit guilt. No matter how small the infraction. Better to deny all and see if the league can make it stick.

On the other hand, I also believe the league has played dirty and gone out of its way to embarrass and punish New England for a petty crime.

This is probably the first time I've ever agreed with Shaughnessy.

If you find yourself agreeing with Shaughnessy, maybe you should question yourself.

Eh.  A broken clock is right twice a day.

I think that the Patriots probably cheated.  I think that it's extremely likely that Brady lied.  Between hiding behind lawyers and the union, destroying his phone (but not the prior one), conveniently forgetting conversations, statements contradicted by the equipment managers, his feigned ignorance about air pressure in footballs, etc., Brady is acting very much like a guilty party.

At the same time, I see this as a fairly minor infraction, or, as DS says, a petty crime.

In an ideal world, the NFL would have fined the Pats $25k per game since the infamous Jets game, the team would lose a mid-to-late round draft pick, and Brady would be fined a game check.  Then, everybody could have moved on, and the rules and penalties could have been clarified and stiffened moving forward.

I dunno bout that.

I'm not sure how altering footballs in a bathroom could be considered a minor infraction.

The only thing Brady has going for him is the NFL over looking other incidents.  He can argue he was over punished but it was a pretty serious infraction.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Now that all of his e-mails are out there everyone agrees with him not giving over any texts or his phone at all right?  Granted he should not have gotten a new one and destroyed that one around that time with everything else going on.

Privacy for me is one of the most important rights I possess, and I do anything to protect that right. Seeing how these emails are now being made public (haven't checked who's making them public, and under who's authority and permission), I'd there's no way I'm handing the NFL or any of its investigators ANY private data I may possess, no matter the scope of it.

[knuckleballer]

Shaughnessy is right, I think, when he says this:

Sorry, I think the Patriots are guilty.

I know that is not a popular opinion and I could very well be wrong, but from the jump they’ve behaved like a guilty party, and I’ve spent enough time around them to believe this is exactly the kind of microsystem they would design in order to get a small edge. And the league-hating Belichick and ever-angry Jonathan Kraft would never admit guilt. No matter how small the infraction. Better to deny all and see if the league can make it stick.

On the other hand, I also believe the league has played dirty and gone out of its way to embarrass and punish New England for a petty crime.

This is probably the first time I've ever agreed with Shaughnessy.

If you find yourself agreeing with Shaughnessy, maybe you should question yourself.

Eh.  A broken clock is right twice a day.

I think that the Patriots probably cheated.  I think that it's extremely likely that Brady lied.  Between hiding behind lawyers and the union, destroying his phone (but not the prior one), conveniently forgetting conversations, statements contradicted by the equipment managers, his feigned ignorance about air pressure in footballs, etc., Brady is acting very much like a guilty party.

At the same time, I see this as a fairly minor infraction, or, as DS says, a petty crime.

In an ideal world, the NFL would have fined the Pats $25k per game since the infamous Jets game, the team would lose a mid-to-late round draft pick, and Brady would be fined a game check.  Then, everybody could have moved on, and the rules and penalties could have been clarified and stiffened moving forward.

I dunno bout that.

I'm not sure how altering footballs in a bathroom could be considered a minor infraction.

The only thing Brady has going for him is the NFL over looking other incidents.  He can argue he was over punished but it was a pretty serious infraction.

That, science, logic, and common sense.  But who cares about that, he destroyed his phone and some guy said the word "deflator".  Witch!

[Evantime34]

Shaughnessy is right, I think, when he says this:

Sorry, I think the Patriots are guilty.

I know that is not a popular opinion and I could very well be wrong, but from the jump they’ve behaved like a guilty party, and I’ve spent enough time around them to believe this is exactly the kind of microsystem they would design in order to get a small edge. And the league-hating Belichick and ever-angry Jonathan Kraft would never admit guilt. No matter how small the infraction. Better to deny all and see if the league can make it stick.

On the other hand, I also believe the league has played dirty and gone out of its way to embarrass and punish New England for a petty crime.

This is probably the first time I've ever agreed with Shaughnessy.

If you find yourself agreeing with Shaughnessy, maybe you should question yourself.

Eh.  A broken clock is right twice a day.

I think that the Patriots probably cheated.  I think that it's extremely likely that Brady lied.  Between hiding behind lawyers and the union, destroying his phone (but not the prior one), conveniently forgetting conversations, statements contradicted by the equipment managers, his feigned ignorance about air pressure in footballs, etc., Brady is acting very much like a guilty party.

At the same time, I see this as a fairly minor infraction, or, as DS says, a petty crime.

In an ideal world, the NFL would have fined the Pats $25k per game since the infamous Jets game, the team would lose a mid-to-late round draft pick, and Brady would be fined a game check.  Then, everybody could have moved on, and the rules and penalties could have been clarified and stiffened moving forward.

Pretty much agree with this.

However, during the Jets game the NFL inflated the balls much higher than the legal limit. Can the league really punish the Patriots for rules they themselves failed to follow?

[D.o.s.]

I think the answer to that is an unequivocal yes. The NFL, who are more or less Mark Metcalf circa the We're Not Gonna Take It video, haven't shown a single iota of concern over internal consistency.

[knuckleballer]

I think the answer to that is an unequivocal yes. The NFL, who are more or less Mark Metcalf circa the We're Not Gonna Take It video, haven't shown a single iota of concern over internal consistency.

In fact, Goodell was called a liar by a federal judge in November.  And honestly, the guy said he did not know there was any connection to football, concussions, and post career mental health problems.  Seriously?  And guess who which law firm and lawyers represented him on that matter?  They sound kind of familiar when looking at the deflategate nonsense.  Independent... 

[Rondo2287]

Shaughnessy is right, I think, when he says this:

Sorry, I think the Patriots are guilty.

I know that is not a popular opinion and I could very well be wrong, but from the jump they’ve behaved like a guilty party, and I’ve spent enough time around them to believe this is exactly the kind of microsystem they would design in order to get a small edge. And the league-hating Belichick and ever-angry Jonathan Kraft would never admit guilt. No matter how small the infraction. Better to deny all and see if the league can make it stick.

On the other hand, I also believe the league has played dirty and gone out of its way to embarrass and punish New England for a petty crime.

This is probably the first time I've ever agreed with Shaughnessy.

If you find yourself agreeing with Shaughnessy, maybe you should question yourself.

Eh.  A broken clock is right twice a day.

I think that the Patriots probably cheated.  I think that it's extremely likely that Brady lied.  Between hiding behind lawyers and the union, destroying his phone (but not the prior one), conveniently forgetting conversations, statements contradicted by the equipment managers, his feigned ignorance about air pressure in footballs, etc., Brady is acting very much like a guilty party.

At the same time, I see this as a fairly minor infraction, or, as DS says, a petty crime.

In an ideal world, the NFL would have fined the Pats $25k per game since the infamous Jets game, the team would lose a mid-to-late round draft pick, and Brady would be fined a game check.  Then, everybody could have moved on, and the rules and penalties could have been clarified and stiffened moving forward.

Pretty much agree with this.

However, during the Jets game the NFL inflated the balls much higher than the legal limit. Can the league really punish the Patriots for rules they themselves failed to follow?

The jets game that Goodell didn't know was played at Gillette rather than the meadowlands.  Makes me wonder if he read the wells report. 

The bulk of his questioning during the appeal made it seem like he was trying to prove he was awake.  Which I'm sure is why Kessler desperately wanted the transcript released to the public which the nfl initially denied

[D.o.s.]

It's the same reason the NFL was leaking things like "brady destroyed his cell phone" to Stephen A.: posturing.

[knuckleballer]

Shaughnessy is right, I think, when he says this:

Sorry, I think the Patriots are guilty.

I know that is not a popular opinion and I could very well be wrong, but from the jump they’ve behaved like a guilty party, and I’ve spent enough time around them to believe this is exactly the kind of microsystem they would design in order to get a small edge. And the league-hating Belichick and ever-angry Jonathan Kraft would never admit guilt. No matter how small the infraction. Better to deny all and see if the league can make it stick.

On the other hand, I also believe the league has played dirty and gone out of its way to embarrass and punish New England for a petty crime.

This is probably the first time I've ever agreed with Shaughnessy.

If you find yourself agreeing with Shaughnessy, maybe you should question yourself.

Eh.  A broken clock is right twice a day.

I think that the Patriots probably cheated.  I think that it's extremely likely that Brady lied.  Between hiding behind lawyers and the union, destroying his phone (but not the prior one), conveniently forgetting conversations, statements contradicted by the equipment managers, his feigned ignorance about air pressure in footballs, etc., Brady is acting very much like a guilty party.

At the same time, I see this as a fairly minor infraction, or, as DS says, a petty crime.

In an ideal world, the NFL would have fined the Pats $25k per game since the infamous Jets game, the team would lose a mid-to-late round draft pick, and Brady would be fined a game check.  Then, everybody could have moved on, and the rules and penalties could have been clarified and stiffened moving forward.

Pretty much agree with this.

However, during the Jets game the NFL inflated the balls much higher than the legal limit. Can the league really punish the Patriots for rules they themselves failed to follow?

The jets game that Goodell didn't know was played at Gillette rather than the meadowlands.  Makes me wonder if he read the wells report. 

The bulk of his questioning during the appeal made it seem like he was trying to prove he was awake.  Which I'm sure is why Kessler desperately wanted the transcript released to the public which the nfl initially denied

The bulk of his questioning proved he is a numbskull which the owners like and would like to hide from.  Let the village idiot deal with the tough questions, like concussions, while they hide and count their gold coins.

[JSD]

So was it 22 minutes, after ?nearly ten? minutes? Or was it about 49 minutes, after about nine minutes? Does this matter, all these facts and figures? Only insofar as the Wells Report (and Goodell) have tried to transform an avalanche of statistics about cellphone conversations into evidence of wrongdoing. If that?s your strategy, at least stay consistent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/08/05/roger-goodell-misled-me-brady-appeal-transcript-shows/

The tide has turned on the discredited NFL league office, who have proven time and time again that the "popular decision" will always be their path, regardless of the actual circumstances surrounding a case they're handling.