Ainge overplayed his cards

[Evantime34]

We traded guys who do not have a future on the Celtics and added draft picks. 3 potential first round picks for Green and Rondo, during a time in which first round picks are more valuable than ever.

If Ainge is able to use these firsts to trade for a star then this all will have been worth it.

[LarBrd33]

we didn't have a franchise player on the roster before the deals, so who cares?

Get some picks and tank.  Smart move for the team.

But we had decent players who can atleast pull a solid free agent to play with us.

Naaaahh...

If Rondo wants to pull a "solid free agent to play with us", we can free up enough cap space this summer to sign two max contract guys and see if Rondo can follow-through on that.    I'd welcome him back to Boston if he's bringing a "solid free agent to play with us" back. 

I think getting a 1st, a couple 2nds + whatever we get for Crowder, Jameer and the Trade exception... that's turning out to be a heck of a haul to let Dallas borrow our franchise PG for a few months.  Boston shall be in far better position to add some talent when Rondo returns from his Dallas vaycay. 

[guava_wrench]

It has become apparent with the Rondo and Green trades that Danny Ainge did not receive the value he was looking for out of the Celtics two best players. Late first round and second round picks are nothing to get too excited about. Danny overplayed his cards and now he and the Celtic faithful will suffer through an even longer rebuild. Does anyone think that we currently have a franchise player on the roster. Serious doubts if Ainge can still get the job done. Here's hoping the ping pong balls are kind.

Well one thing is that teams that have nice young talent are usually in the same situation that we are in, and why would you want to give up legit prospects and picks just to move up a couple spots? So the teams that big on guys like Green,Rondo and Wright don't have much to give up. DA did a heck of a job with KG and PP, that kind of haul is few and far in between.

Here's something people don't think about. If you look at the trades we've done since KG and PP, on the most part DA has sent the better players we've had to good teams in good situations.

What DA could be doing is getting in good with agents, and other teams, getting ready for the next couple of Free Agency's and trade deadlines over the next few seasons. You start building good relations ships and showing teams you can play nice, teams are more willing to trade. During the "Summer of Love" it was rumored teams didn't like dealing with him. Now he gives some things up to teams that could use help, some where down the line some one helps us out.

Same with FA's, yeah DA has been trading, but not screwing players over and sending them to Philly, Utah, or heck even the Knicks, will get in the good graces of Agents to talk their clients into signing with Boston and if id doesn't work out, look at the track record of DA putting them in good situations.

 It's a big gamble on the most part, but could pay off big as well. Plus bundle all those picks and hand them off to a team with less young talent to move up a few spots isn't bad either.

Interesting point. Ainge's slogan seems to be "If you don't win with us, we'll find another place where you can win". Look at Crawford in GS, Lee in Memphis, Rondo in Dallas, Green in Memphis. While BKN was mediocre with Pierce and KG, they got to choose that location and thought it would be good when they went. Even Wright went to a team that could make the playoffs in the competitive west and where the style will likely make him look good.

[winsomme]

Sounds to me like second rounders are a good haul to some of you. Rondo, Love, and Green is what I was referring to some saying would have been the Celtics Big 3 or (Big 3 lite). If all you are getting is second rounders why not wait up until the deadline and hope that a contender is forced into overpaying due to injury or in response to some trade that another top team pulled off. Danny played his cards this long into second rounders why not wait a little longer for a second rounder.

I think he is realizing that his best asset is his own pick. I just wish he realized that last year...

I like Smart, but the top 3 were the big prize. Even if he used the pick to get Love.

[guava_wrench]

We traded guys who do not have a future on the Celtics and added draft picks. 3 potential first round picks for Green and Rondo, during a time in which first round picks are more valuable than ever.

If Ainge is able to use these firsts to trade for a star then this all will have been worth it.

I guess the James Harden trade is the best case scenario for a trade like this. Find a team with a player with the potential to be elite whom they can't afford and then take the risk of signing that player to a lucrative extension. Of course, they could end up not panning out.

The downside of trading #1's for established stars can be seen in the Deron Williams trade. They traded Favors, who has probably been much more productive than DWill, as well as 2 #1 picks.

[Sketch5]

It has become apparent with the Rondo and Green trades that Danny Ainge did not receive the value he was looking for out of the Celtics two best players. Late first round and second round picks are nothing to get too excited about. Danny overplayed his cards and now he and the Celtic faithful will suffer through an even longer rebuild. Does anyone think that we currently have a franchise player on the roster. Serious doubts if Ainge can still get the job done. Here's hoping the ping pong balls are kind.

It's a big gamble on the most part, but could pay off big as well. Plus bundle all those picks and hand them off to a team with less young talent to move up a few spots isn't bad either.

I have a problem with this. There wont be a lot of teams, if not any, that will trade quality over quantity.

People make those trades all the time if they feel that the guy they want will still be available lower down.

Exactly. If you look at some of the teams that are lining up to be in the top 5, a lot of them have their bigs in place, and going into a draft heavy in bigs, they might want to make a move to fill their needs. I mean doses Philly need an other big. They have 3 guys under 20, do they need an other were they could really use a SG or SF. So you get them multiple picks to grab some players. Or you add a player and a future to move up. I mean if Indy gets into the top 3, do they need a center young project center. Or could they get a guard, pay them less money and if you give them a future pick they have something inplace in a couple years if things go south if George can't come back or Hibbert starts getting lazy, or need to fill a need cheap.

[guava_wrench]

Sounds to me like second rounders are a good haul to some of you. Rondo, Love, and Green is what I was referring to some saying would have been the Celtics Big 3 or (Big 3 lite). If all you are getting is second rounders why not wait up until the deadline and hope that a contender is forced into overpaying due to injury or in response to some trade that another top team pulled off. Danny played his cards this long into second rounders why not wait a little longer for a second rounder.

You are essentially saying "instead of making a trade that actually existed, why didn't he just forego these trades and hope something happened in the next one and a half months that was better?"

The worst part of that logic is that we are trading to contenders who want time to integrate players. For example, waiting on the Rondo trade makes a trade less likely as teams fear losing multiple rotation guys for such a peculiar player with only a third of the season remaining.

Second guessing is cheap when it is of the form "why not do [some hypothetical that might never have happened] instead of [something that was actually possible]". It is one thing to question picking player A over player B in the draft when both were available, or signing free agent X over free agent Y when both were interested. But comparing what was possible with fantasies of how things could have been better seems unsatisfying to me.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

It has become apparent with the Rondo and Green trades that Danny Ainge did not receive the value he was looking for out of the Celtics two best players. Late first round and second round picks are nothing to get too excited about. Danny overplayed his cards and now he and the Celtic faithful will suffer through an even longer rebuild. Does anyone think that we currently have a franchise player on the roster. Serious doubts if Ainge can still get the job done. Here's hoping the ping pong balls are kind.

It's a big gamble on the most part, but could pay off big as well. Plus bundle all those picks and hand them off to a team with less young talent to move up a few spots isn't bad either.

I have a problem with this. There wont be a lot of teams, if not any, that will trade quality over quantity.

People make those trades all the time if they feel that the guy they want will still be available lower down.

Exactly. If you look at some of the teams that are lining up to be in the top 5, a lot of them have their bigs in place, and going into a draft heavy in bigs, they might want to make a move to fill their needs. I mean doses Philly need an other big. They have 3 guys under 20, do they need an other were they could really use a SG or SF. So you get them multiple picks to grab some players. Or you add a player and a future to move up. I mean if Indy gets into the top 3, do they need a center young project center. Or could they get a guard, pay them less money and if you give them a future pick they have something inplace in a couple years if things go south if George can't come back or Hibbert starts getting lazy, or need to fill a need cheap.

But wouldn't they trade for quality than quantity? I get that they may want to move down because they dont have a need for the three projected top players, but it doesnt mean they would trade it for a bunch of late first round picks.

The only viable asset we have is our own pick. If we can use that, along with the late first round picks to move up, or get an All Star player, then I'd eat crow. Im just not as optimistic, as I dont think teams would be crazy enough to move their quality assets just to get more less quality ones.

We traded guys who do not have a future on the Celtics and added draft picks. 3 potential first round picks for Green and Rondo, during a time in which first round picks are more valuable than ever.

If Ainge is able to use these firsts to trade for a star then this all will have been worth it.

I guess the James Harden trade is the best case scenario for a trade like this. Find a team with a player with the potential to be elite whom they can't afford and then take the risk of signing that player to a lucrative extension. Of course, they could end up not panning out.

The downside of trading #1's for established stars can be seen in the Deron Williams trade. They traded Favors, who has probably been much more productive than DWill, as well as 2 #1 picks.

Yep, it will be handy to have assets if that thing happens. But until then, it's hard to speculate. It could happen next year, or in the next three years, in which at that time, we already exhausted and we wont be able to use.

[droopdog7]

It has become apparent with the Rondo and Green trades that Danny Ainge did not receive the value he was looking for out of the Celtics two best players. Late first round and second round picks are nothing to get too excited about. Danny overplayed his cards and now he and the Celtic faithful will suffer through an even longer rebuild. Does anyone think that we currently have a franchise player on the roster. Serious doubts if Ainge can still get the job done. Here's hoping the ping pong balls are kind.

It's a big gamble on the most part, but could pay off big as well. Plus bundle all those picks and hand them off to a team with less young talent to move up a few spots isn't bad either.

I have a problem with this. There wont be a lot of teams, if not any, that will trade quality over quantity.

Yeah, no team will trade quantity over quality.  But the thing is, teams will value players differently.  And I see ainge trading a first round pick to move up 1-3 spots to grab a guy he values.  That will only work of the other team doesn't value that guy as much as da.  And of course, da has to be right.

[Beat LA]

While it will always tick me off that he traded Rondo, Pierce, and KG, I honestly couldn't care less that he finally moved Green, nor do I care what, or who, we get/got for him, if anything.  Seriously, what takes Ainge so long?  Just move them at the same time.  His pattern of holding onto players who don't fit the direction of the team is baffling to me, but whatever.  I also think that he's stockpiling all of these draft picks for two reasons.  1). and this is his dirty little secret - he can't draft, but he probably figures that if he has as many picks as possible, he can afford to make a mistake and/or see someone fall to us who shouldn't have dropped, like Danny Granger in 2005, and snag him.  It's purely a numbers game, imo, and 2). and this is the far more likely scenario, imo, he trades all of these draft picks for established players, knowing that he can't draft, almost like giving a bunch of gift cards to someone at Christmas or on their birthday, as if to say, "here, you do it," lol.   No matter how you cut it, though, Ainge has ensured that we suck long time, ahaha.

[chambers]

we didn't have a franchise player on the roster before the deals, so who cares?

Get some picks and tank.  Smart move for the team.

But we had decent players who can atleast pull a solid free agent to play with us.

We already had a ton of assets before we traded Rondo and Green. Why cant we keep the two and use the assets we had to get a player via trade or FA? Now, no Free Agent of significance will sign with us, and we're playing the dangerous lottery game. If we don't luck out in the draft, our rebuild will turn into a long sucking road trip.

Because with those current players, we were unlikely to gain a franchise level free agent.
Ainge and the crew decided that they couldn't put a championship caliber team on the floor with Rondo and Green (at least not paying Rondo the max money he was seeking).

It's championship or bust. Cmon man this is the Celtics. We aren't putting some 'pretender' out there for 5 years while  the next franchise changing rookies like Davis come through the NCAA and Europe.

Keep in mind that Rondo was probably part of the original rebuild plan but his recovery from injury was so poor that it crushed the idea of making him a centerpiece.

To all those saying 'then why did we keep Rondo?' The answer is in the sentence I just wrote above.

[Scintan]

It has become apparent with the Rondo and Green trades that Danny Ainge did not receive the value he was looking for out of the Celtics two best players. Late first round and second round picks are nothing to get too excited about. Danny overplayed his cards and now he and the Celtic faithful will suffer through an even longer rebuild. Does anyone think that we currently have a franchise player on the roster. Serious doubts if Ainge can still get the job done. Here's hoping the ping pong balls are kind.

They gambled on the lottery and lost.  Then LeBron took his talents to that rat hole known as Cleveland, and Kevin Love  went from a possibility to something that was absolutely not happening.  I'm not an Ainge apologist, but there's no sense making more out of what happened than what was actually there.  The team now has something like 5,213,231,358 draft picks in the next 4 years.  Maybe the Celtics will finally get lucky.

[guava_wrench]

It has become apparent with the Rondo and Green trades that Danny Ainge did not receive the value he was looking for out of the Celtics two best players. Late first round and second round picks are nothing to get too excited about. Danny overplayed his cards and now he and the Celtic faithful will suffer through an even longer rebuild. Does anyone think that we currently have a franchise player on the roster. Serious doubts if Ainge can still get the job done. Here's hoping the ping pong balls are kind.

It's a big gamble on the most part, but could pay off big as well. Plus bundle all those picks and hand them off to a team with less young talent to move up a few spots isn't bad either.

I have a problem with this. There wont be a lot of teams, if not any, that will trade quality over quantity.

People make those trades all the time if they feel that the guy they want will still be available lower down.

Exactly. If you look at some of the teams that are lining up to be in the top 5, a lot of them have their bigs in place, and going into a draft heavy in bigs, they might want to make a move to fill their needs. I mean doses Philly need an other big. They have 3 guys under 20, do they need an other were they could really use a SG or SF. So you get them multiple picks to grab some players. Or you add a player and a future to move up. I mean if Indy gets into the top 3, do they need a center young project center. Or could they get a guard, pay them less money and if you give them a future pick they have something inplace in a couple years if things go south if George can't come back or Hibbert starts getting lazy, or need to fill a need cheap.

But wouldn't they trade for quality than quantity? I get that they may want to move down because they dont have a need for the three projected top players, but it doesnt mean they would trade it for a bunch of late first round picks.

You are being stubborn here. People swap picks in the first round all the time, with the team throwing in an additional pick. It doesn't matter how you try to phrase or spin that. You can trade picks for better picks. Talking about top three is a red herring. Your quality/quantity claim is false.

Also, considering Brooklyn's situation right now and the plummet of the Ruble, the Brooklyn picks project to have a good chance of being in the lottery. The long term futility of the Knicks is also there to remind GMs that being in the NY market does not guarantee the Nets a turnaround. DWill's contract is looking like Amare 2.0. They also have JJ making almost 25m next season at age 34. Free agents won't go their to win, they don't have money to throw around anymore, and they won't have any good picks for a few years (especially with Atlanta's record).

Another thing to consider is how people discount the future. People are willing to pay $11 later for $10 today. Likewise, if GMs really want to add a player now on draft day, they will often be willing to give up a likely better pick down the road.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

It has become apparent with the Rondo and Green trades that Danny Ainge did not receive the value he was looking for out of the Celtics two best players. Late first round and second round picks are nothing to get too excited about. Danny overplayed his cards and now he and the Celtic faithful will suffer through an even longer rebuild. Does anyone think that we currently have a franchise player on the roster. Serious doubts if Ainge can still get the job done. Here's hoping the ping pong balls are kind.

It's a big gamble on the most part, but could pay off big as well. Plus bundle all those picks and hand them off to a team with less young talent to move up a few spots isn't bad either.

I have a problem with this. There wont be a lot of teams, if not any, that will trade quality over quantity.

People make those trades all the time if they feel that the guy they want will still be available lower down.

Exactly. If you look at some of the teams that are lining up to be in the top 5, a lot of them have their bigs in place, and going into a draft heavy in bigs, they might want to make a move to fill their needs. I mean doses Philly need an other big. They have 3 guys under 20, do they need an other were they could really use a SG or SF. So you get them multiple picks to grab some players. Or you add a player and a future to move up. I mean if Indy gets into the top 3, do they need a center young project center. Or could they get a guard, pay them less money and if you give them a future pick they have something inplace in a couple years if things go south if George can't come back or Hibbert starts getting lazy, or need to fill a need cheap.

But wouldn't they trade for quality than quantity? I get that they may want to move down because they dont have a need for the three projected top players, but it doesnt mean they would trade it for a bunch of late first round picks.

You are being stubborn here. People swap picks in the first round all the time, with the team throwing in an additional pick. It doesn't matter how you try to phrase or spin that. You can trade picks for better picks. Talking about top three is a red herring. Your quality/quantity claim is false.

Also, considering Brooklyn's situation right now and the plummet of the Ruble, the Brooklyn picks project to have a good chance of being in the lottery. The long term futility of the Knicks is also there to remind GMs that being in the NY market does not guarantee the Nets a turnaround. DWill's contract is looking like Amare 2.0. They also have JJ making almost 25m next season at age 34. Free agents won't go their to win, they don't have money to throw around anymore, and they won't have any good picks for a few years (especially with Atlanta's record).

Another thing to consider is how people discount the future. People are willing to pay $11 later for $10 today. Likewise, if GMs really want to add a player now on draft day, they will often be willing to give up a likely better pick down the road.

Then I'd have to see it for myself if Danny can somehow use those late first rounds and move up, or turn it into a player that can be a part moving forward. But fair point, and point taken.

[guava_wrench]

It has become apparent with the Rondo and Green trades that Danny Ainge did not receive the value he was looking for out of the Celtics two best players. Late first round and second round picks are nothing to get too excited about. Danny overplayed his cards and now he and the Celtic faithful will suffer through an even longer rebuild. Does anyone think that we currently have a franchise player on the roster. Serious doubts if Ainge can still get the job done. Here's hoping the ping pong balls are kind.

It's a big gamble on the most part, but could pay off big as well. Plus bundle all those picks and hand them off to a team with less young talent to move up a few spots isn't bad either.

I have a problem with this. There wont be a lot of teams, if not any, that will trade quality over quantity.

People make those trades all the time if they feel that the guy they want will still be available lower down.

Exactly. If you look at some of the teams that are lining up to be in the top 5, a lot of them have their bigs in place, and going into a draft heavy in bigs, they might want to make a move to fill their needs. I mean doses Philly need an other big. They have 3 guys under 20, do they need an other were they could really use a SG or SF. So you get them multiple picks to grab some players. Or you add a player and a future to move up. I mean if Indy gets into the top 3, do they need a center young project center. Or could they get a guard, pay them less money and if you give them a future pick they have something inplace in a couple years if things go south if George can't come back or Hibbert starts getting lazy, or need to fill a need cheap.

But wouldn't they trade for quality than quantity? I get that they may want to move down because they dont have a need for the three projected top players, but it doesnt mean they would trade it for a bunch of late first round picks.

You are being stubborn here. People swap picks in the first round all the time, with the team throwing in an additional pick. It doesn't matter how you try to phrase or spin that. You can trade picks for better picks. Talking about top three is a red herring. Your quality/quantity claim is false.

Also, considering Brooklyn's situation right now and the plummet of the Ruble, the Brooklyn picks project to have a good chance of being in the lottery. The long term futility of the Knicks is also there to remind GMs that being in the NY market does not guarantee the Nets a turnaround. DWill's contract is looking like Amare 2.0. They also have JJ making almost 25m next season at age 34. Free agents won't go their to win, they don't have money to throw around anymore, and they won't have any good picks for a few years (especially with Atlanta's record).

Another thing to consider is how people discount the future. People are willing to pay $11 later for $10 today. Likewise, if GMs really want to add a player now on draft day, they will often be willing to give up a likely better pick down the road.

Then I'd have to see it for myself if Danny can somehow use those late first rounds and move up, or turn it into a player that can be a part moving forward. But fair point, and point taken.

On the other hand, I would agree that no team wants to give up the best player in a deal unless they are forced to a la Melo to NY, Harden to Houston, DWill to NJ, Howard to LAL (though you can make a Bynum argument), etc. Ironic how 3 of the examples I thought of were horrible failures for the team that got the best player.