Post Game: Crowder says Stevens needs to hold players more accountable

[Roy H.]

A player should not be saying that about a coach.

Agreed.  Know your place, and keep it in the locker room.

I have no problem with this. I think it's great that someone is stepping up. And his play backs up his words.

His play -- fewer than 7 points per game on 44% shooting, and a 1-7 record -- allows him to undermine his coach to the media?

[D.o.s.]

What would be the reaction if these words were coming from Gerald Wallace?

It's good to know that we're both being ignored equally:

This is the most Gerald Wallace-like Jae Crowder has ever been, so points to whoever made that comparison in advance a week or two ago.

Wonderful comparison.

Not that wonderful when you consider that Wallace is yet to have a game as productive as Crowder had yesterday.

Surely you remember the threads about Wallace complaining about the team during last season?

[KingofDaPlayazBall]

A player should not be saying that about a coach.

Agreed.  Know your place, and keep it in the locker room.

I have no problem with this. I think it's great that someone is stepping up. And his play backs up his words.

His play -- fewer than 7 points per game on 44% shooting, and a 1-7 record -- allows him to undermine his coach to the media?

Crowder is arguably the team's mvp since the trade, 7pts in 16 mins isnt bad, plus he does all the other things.  There is nothing wrong with telling stevens to hold players more accountable, he is right and if stevens can take it in a possitive way then he is just being too sensitive

[Fafnir]

A player should not be saying that about a coach.

Agreed.  Know your place, and keep it in the locker room.

Yeah I wasn't a fan of Wallace doing it repeatedly, nor of Crowder.

The fact that its happened twice is bad. Jammer is also grumbling and so has Bass. A lot of grumblings among the C's. The Rondo trade has unleashed a lot of hidden tension I guess. (and the losing subsequent)

[Evantime34]

A player should not be saying that about a coach.

Agreed.  Know your place, and keep it in the locker room.

I have no problem with this. I think it's great that someone is stepping up. And his play backs up his words.

His play -- fewer than 7 points per game on 44% shooting, and a 1-7 record -- allows him to undermine his coach to the media?

If you read the entire quote he said it's up to the players to be accountable. The excerpt they used was just a better quote for a story but overall the comment wasn't too harsh.

It seems similar to Wallace's comments last year in that, if you listened to the whole interview on youtube it didn't seem bad but then when sports writers isolate part of the quote it becomes a story.

[KeepRondo]

A player should not be saying that about a coach.

Agreed.  Know your place, and keep it in the locker room.

I have no problem with this. I think it's great that someone is stepping up. And his play backs up his words.

His play -- fewer than 7 points per game on 44% shooting, and a 1-7 record -- allows him to undermine his coach to the media?

I believe he was referencing the lack of effort that's been going on. And I agree with him. Stevens let's this kind of thing go on too much. I don't see how his stats have anything to do with his complaints. He's not barking at the coach to put him in to run up his stats. He's asking that the players who play hard, get more minutes.

And I don't like your stance on people should know their place. I think it does apply sometimes but it comes off as elitist when you say it in general.

So yeah if Jeff Green said he had a problem with sitting on the bench, I would have a slight problem with it. It would certainly show some fire that is missing. But anyways, the point I'm making is this is who Crowder is. He's a hard working no nonsense guy. I love what he said. I wouldn't be surprised if Stevens was happy about the comments.

[fairweatherfan]

A player should not be saying that about a coach.

Agreed.  Know your place, and keep it in the locker room.

Yeah I wasn't a fan of Wallace doing it repeatedly, nor of Crowder.

The fact that its happened twice is bad. Jammer is also grumbling and so has Bass. A lot of grumblings among the C's. The Rondo trade has unleashed a lot of hidden tension I guess. (and the losing subsequent)

The Rondo trade made it clear to the players that this is a transitional team, a lot of guys won't be here whenever it does coalesce, and management would rather we not win much this year.  It's not surprising a lot of players are thinking about themselves and other players are getting irritated by it. 

The trade deadline can't get here soon enough so we can clear out some of the Dallas guys and maybe a few of our own too.  Too much depth right now with little sense of any pecking order.

[kozlodoev]

Surely you remember the threads about Wallace complaining about the team during last season?

Sure, except at that point he was logging big minutes and playing like a piece of turd. That's not the situation with Crowder.

[KeepRondo]

Surely you remember the threads about Wallace complaining about the team during last season?

Sure, except at that point he was logging big minutes and playing like a piece of turd. That's not the situation with Crowder.

Try to simplify what he's saying.

[guava_wrench]

Jay King ?@ByJayKing  4m4 minutes ago
Jae Crowder said Stevens should "hold guys a little more accountable." But put poor effort mostly on the players.

Mark Murphy ?@Murf56  4m4 minutes ago
Crowder said Stevens should hold his players more accountable. "It shouldn't be about playing hard."

Jay King ?@ByJayKing  8m8 minutes ago
Sullinger: "we can't play hero ball. We have no heroes."

I'm not sure you can ever eliminate hero ball if Evan Turner is on the team. More so if he is running the offense.

The real problem is that there is no message a coach can credibly deliver to a bad team. No matter what the coach tells the Celtics or the Sixers, there will be a lot of losses. The Celtics will take the same approach they took with Doc when we were horrible before KG. Don't forget battles between Doc and Pierce back in the day.

I'm also not sure why people are bothered by Crowder. Are people basing it on what Crowder said, or paraphrases reported in tweets? It sounds to me like certain Celtics are not fans of some of their teammates.

“I don’t know what he can do to prepare, but when something like [Monday’s loss] happens, I guess hold guys accountable early,” Crowder said of what Stevens could change. “Just don’t let it keep happening. We just kept digging ourselves in a hole. I just feel like he’s got to hold guys a little more accountable.”

If you add to that critiques he made of teammates in preceding comments concerning how hard they played at the start of the game, then it seems his concern is professionalism of the teammates, no matter how people try to make it sound in tweets.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/01/06/robb-jae-crowder-calls-out-celtics-teammates-after-latest-loss/

[KeepRondo]

Jay King ?@ByJayKing  4m4 minutes ago
Jae Crowder said Stevens should "hold guys a little more accountable." But put poor effort mostly on the players.

Mark Murphy ?@Murf56  4m4 minutes ago
Crowder said Stevens should hold his players more accountable. "It shouldn't be about playing hard."

Jay King ?@ByJayKing  8m8 minutes ago
Sullinger: "we can't play hero ball. We have no heroes."

I'm not sure you can ever eliminate hero ball if Evan Turner is on the team. More so if he is running the offense.

The real problem is that there is no message a coach can credibly deliver to a bad team. No matter what the coach tells the Celtics or the Sixers, there will be a lot of losses. The Celtics will take the same approach they took with Doc when we were horrible before KG. Don't forget battles between Doc and Pierce back in the day.

I'm also not sure why people are bothered by Crowder. Are people basing it on what Crowder said, or paraphrases reported in tweets? It sounds to me like certain Celtics are not fans of some of their teammates.

“I don’t know what he can do to prepare, but when something like [Monday’s loss] happens, I guess hold guys accountable early,” Crowder said of what Stevens could change. “Just don’t let it keep happening. We just kept digging ourselves in a hole. I just feel like he’s got to hold guys a little more accountable.”

If you add to that critiques he made of teammates in preceding comments concerning how hard they played at the start of the game, then it seems his concern is professionalism of the teammates, no matter how people try to make it sound in tweets.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/01/06/robb-jae-crowder-calls-out-celtics-teammates-after-latest-loss/

I agree. I hate that response, know your place and shut up.

[hwangjini_1]

A player should not be saying that about a coach.

Which begs the question, are you really the coach if you don't appear to do any actual coaching.

That's just the tip of this iceberg the Celtic Titanic is sailing into .

Ainge will just have to let Stevens go. I don't think the team is responding to whatever he's selling anymore.

just for historical reference for this conversation:

doc river's record as coach of the celtics prior to the championship -
2004-05 = 45 wins and 37 losses
2005-06 = 33 and 49
2006-07 = 24 and 58

yet, in 2007-08 doc guided the celtics to a 66 and 16 record.

in one season doc goes from coaching a team to 24 wins to one with 66 wins. more than coaching is involved here and Red himself could not have coached that 2006-07 team to respectability.

some members of cb were impatient with rivers, saying things very similar to what i am reading here. doc was coach of the year once before coming to the celtics. he had coached more than 4 full seasons in Orlando before coming to the celtics. and he still coached the celtics to a 24 win season. the celtics got beat more than a rented mule.

cb posters would gleefully dump on doc for being a total waste of space as a coach, losing the team's respect, unable to set rotations, unable to finish games, and more. it got old then and it could very easily get old here.

i don't see why this board is so impatient with CBS when it is ainge who put this team together.

let's see what happens in february to the roster, then let's see what CBS does with that team. they will still lose, no coach can solve that problem. but how CBS will respond to the changes is of interest to me.
 

[guava_wrench]

A player should not be saying that about a coach.

Agreed.  Know your place, and keep it in the locker room.

Yeah I wasn't a fan of Wallace doing it repeatedly, nor of Crowder.

The fact that its happened twice is bad. Jammer is also grumbling and so has Bass. A lot of grumblings among the C's. The Rondo trade has unleashed a lot of hidden tension I guess. (and the losing subsequent)

The Rondo trade made it clear to the players that this is a transitional team, a lot of guys won't be here whenever it does coalesce, and management would rather we not win much this year.  It's not surprising a lot of players are thinking about themselves and other players are getting irritated by it. 

The trade deadline can't get here soon enough so we can clear out some of the Dallas guys and maybe a few of our own too.  Too much depth right now with little sense of any pecking order.

This is really is the core of the problem -- if it is even a problem. You have a team going nowhere where a lot of guys are cast-offs from other teams or are young and not quite ready to play at a high level as a team. Look at Smart. He has world class effort, but he can't run the offense at all. Turner is what he has always been, and it is never pretty to look at. There is a reason he couldn't get a good offer in the offseason. Bass is probably out guy who best knows his roll and plays it efficiently and properly. Crowder also seems to be good at a narrowly defined role.

Unfortunately, a team needs more than just guys with narrowly defined roles. Green tries to be the dynamic guy, but he just isn't good enough and it sometimes fails miserably. I don't consider it his fault as the alternative is just watching Turner go for his. Bradley will try to impose himself on the game for a few possessions with poor results. Sully can work the post nicely, depending upon matchups, but we aren't talking about someone you can go to with the regularity of Randolph, West, or Boozer-in-his-prime. Not yet, at least. We don't have anyone close to sniffing the all-star game.

[MBunge]

A player should not be saying that about a coach.

Agreed.  Know your place, and keep it in the locker room.

I have no problem with this. I think it's great that someone is stepping up. And his play backs up his words.

His play -- fewer than 7 points per game on 44% shooting, and a 1-7 record -- allows him to undermine his coach to the media?

When your coach undermines himself with bad, almost pathetic, coaching, I don't think players are required to lie to anyone about what is going on.  If Crowder goes from Rick Carisle to Stevens and notices something wrong, why not mention the Emperor's New Clothes?

Mike

[guava_wrench]

A player should not be saying that about a coach.

Agreed.  Know your place, and keep it in the locker room.

I have no problem with this. I think it's great that someone is stepping up. And his play backs up his words.

His play -- fewer than 7 points per game on 44% shooting, and a 1-7 record -- allows him to undermine his coach to the media?

If you read the entire quote he said it's up to the players to be accountable. The excerpt they used was just a better quote for a story but overall the comment wasn't too harsh.

It seems similar to Wallace's comments last year in that, if you listened to the whole interview on youtube it didn't seem bad but then when sports writers isolate part of the quote it becomes a story.

Just another case of reporters creating stories instead of just reporting them.