Cavs have been in contact with Cs about facilitating 3 team deals per ESPN

[tazzmaniac]

Cleveland does have one other asset that would be good to get.  Brendan Haywood and his strange contract (2mil this year, 10.5mil unguaranteed next year). 

[Roy H.]

I fail to see how Boston could facilitate a deal for somebody like Mozgov at 4.7M.  Cleveland has to produce some outgoing salary.  All they have is Waiters.

Cleveland has a trade exception just north of $5 million.

It could be a situation where a third team says, "we'll give you Player X" (somebody who would fit in Cleveland's trade exception), but you have to give take on Player Y's salary (somebody that Cleveland couldn't absorb)".

So, in theory the Celtics would take on the salary of the guy that the third team was trying to dump, and Cleveland would send us that Memphis pick and/or future picks.

[Roy H.]

Cleveland does have one other asset that would be good to get.  Brendan Haywood and his strange contract (2mil this year, 10.5mil unguaranteed next year).

That contract is valuable to teams over the cap, but for a team that will be under the salary cap (like the Celtics hopefully will be), it's borderline useless.  The non-guaranteed deal doesn't do anything that cap space wouldn't, and is actually less flexible.

[MISSERY]

Cleveland does have one other asset that would be good to get.  Brendan Haywood and his strange contract (2mil this year, 10.5mil unguaranteed next year).

That contract is valuable to teams over the cap, but for a team that will be under the salary cap (like the Celtics hopefully will be), it's borderline useless.  The non-guaranteed deal doesn't do anything that cap space wouldn't, and is actually less flexible.

sir something like this?
wizards send seraphin to cleveland
celtics get 1st pick and haywood?

[tazzmaniac]

Cleveland does have one other asset that would be good to get.  Brendan Haywood and his strange contract (2mil this year, 10.5mil unguaranteed next year).

That contract is valuable to teams over the cap, but for a team that will be under the salary cap (like the Celtics hopefully will be), it's borderline useless.  The non-guaranteed deal doesn't do anything that cap space wouldn't, and is actually less flexible.

In the past, Ainge has always maintained that being over the cap but under the luxury tax line is better.  That there are more available options to use and that teams under the cap tend to overpay for players.  I tend to agree with that thinking and would be happy if Ainge was able to make a good trade that kept us above the cap. 

Even if we are under the cap, wouldn't it depend on when the money becomes guaranteed?  I seem to recall Bogan's contract didn't become guaranteed right away.  If it is like Bogan's deal, couldn't we flip it to a team that is over the cap?

[piercetruth34]

Cleveland does have one other asset that would be good to get.  Brendan Haywood and his strange contract (2mil this year, 10.5mil unguaranteed next year).

That contract is valuable to teams over the cap, but for a team that will be under the salary cap (like the Celtics hopefully will be), it's borderline useless.  The non-guaranteed deal doesn't do anything that cap space wouldn't, and is actually less flexible.

In the past, Ainge has always maintained that being over the cap but under the luxury tax line is better.  That there are more available options to use and that teams under the cap tend to overpay for players.  I tend to agree with that thinking and would be happy if Ainge was able to make a good trade that kept us above the cap. 

Even if we are under the cap, wouldn't it depend on when the money becomes guaranteed?  I seem to recall Bogan's contract didn't become guaranteed right away.  If it is like Bogan's deal, couldn't we flip it to a team that is over the cap?

That's right. Cap space is overrated in that regard if we are trying to compete and make trades, but we may actually target free agents this time around. Cap space is still overrated because if you have assets you can do sign and trades.  This is why players like Wallace still have some value in some pipe dream but we may exhaust those options too depending on what is out there.   Ainge is always gauging the landscape that way.

There have to be free agents that want to come to a young team and be a part of that promise too.  The same goes for trades. Most players in trades have some say where they want to go.  Especially the good ones.

[tazzmaniac]

Cleveland does have one other asset that would be good to get.  Brendan Haywood and his strange contract (2mil this year, 10.5mil unguaranteed next year).

That contract is valuable to teams over the cap, but for a team that will be under the salary cap (like the Celtics hopefully will be), it's borderline useless.  The non-guaranteed deal doesn't do anything that cap space wouldn't, and is actually less flexible.

In the past, Ainge has always maintained that being over the cap but under the luxury tax line is better.  That there are more available options to use and that teams under the cap tend to overpay for players.  I tend to agree with that thinking and would be happy if Ainge was able to make a good trade that kept us above the cap. 

Even if we are under the cap, wouldn't it depend on when the money becomes guaranteed?  I seem to recall Bogan's contract didn't become guaranteed right away.  If it is like Bogan's deal, couldn't we flip it to a team that is over the cap?

That's right. Cap space is overrated in that regard if we are trying to compete and make trades, but we may actually target free agents this time around. Cap space is still overrated because if you have assets you can do sign and trades.  This is why players like Wallace still have some value in some pipe dream but we may exhaust those options too depending on what is out there.   Ainge is always gauging the landscape that way.

There have to be free agents that want to come to a young team and be a part of that promise too.  The same goes for trades. Most players in trades have some say where they want to go.  Especially the good ones.

My question is did any of the current top teams actually use cap space to get to where they are today?  Seems like it is done via drafts and trades.

[JBcat]

The article mentions that the Cavs were interested in Koufos from Memphis.  Memphis could sure use Green and Prince is a good salary match. The Cavs have a protected 1st rounder from Memphis which would be a good return for Green.  Seems like the makings for a good trade that helps all parties.

Ugh, I'd hate to get just that pick for Green, especially since the protections on it (1-5 and 15-30 in 2015 and 2016, 1-5 in 2017 and 2018, unprotected in 2019) essentially make it a 2017 pick

I would actually love that pick from Memphis in 2017.  By then Zach Randolph's play might have fallen off a cliff, and Gasol will be 33 then.  Gasoline might not even be on the team by then.  It helps spread our picks out a little better, and gives us more hands in the pot. 

[Tr1boy]

Trade idea

To cavs: Koufus, Bass
To mem: Jeff Green,  Admunson, Haywood
To Celts:  Waiters, TE, Prince (waived),  memphis 2nd, cavs 2nd

[piercetruth34]

Cleveland does have one other asset that would be good to get.  Brendan Haywood and his strange contract (2mil this year, 10.5mil unguaranteed next year).

That contract is valuable to teams over the cap, but for a team that will be under the salary cap (like the Celtics hopefully will be), it's borderline useless.  The non-guaranteed deal doesn't do anything that cap space wouldn't, and is actually less flexible.

In the past, Ainge has always maintained that being over the cap but under the luxury tax line is better.  That there are more available options to use and that teams under the cap tend to overpay for players.  I tend to agree with that thinking and would be happy if Ainge was able to make a good trade that kept us above the cap. 

Even if we are under the cap, wouldn't it depend on when the money becomes guaranteed?  I seem to recall Bogan's contract didn't become guaranteed right away.  If it is like Bogan's deal, couldn't we flip it to a team that is over the cap?

That's right. Cap space is overrated in that regard if we are trying to compete and make trades, but we may actually target free agents this time around. Cap space is still overrated because if you have assets you can do sign and trades.  This is why players like Wallace still have some value in some pipe dream but we may exhaust those options too depending on what is out there.   Ainge is always gauging the landscape that way.

There have to be free agents that want to come to a young team and be a part of that promise too.  The same goes for trades. Most players in trades have some say where they want to go.  Especially the good ones.

My question is did any of the current top teams actually use cap space to get to where they are today?  Seems like it is done via drafts and trades.

I don't think it's yet decided that we are set on going the  cap space route but could be wrong there.  The plus of having assets is we have options as far as who to trade.  We can keep some of our young guys and have those contracts to make deals.  I think in ways the goal should be to get cap space though but I haven't heard anyone explain overly why that is.  So for me to say that I don't know.

Blindly just doing things is usually not good imo lol.  There has to be some reason for it and you don't want to give up assets for nothing.  That's the whole point.  Boston typically has not been a free agent target.  Maybe this will be different.  We don't want to be left with nothing but at the same time I'm all for pushing the envelope.  It goes both ways. You don't want to rule out options.

[bballdog384]

It sounds like the C's could be involved because they want to trade Green.

Cleveland has very few tradeable assets. The article mentions that 1 first found pick as the starting point, which they need to somehow turn into a center. The teams that have tradeable centers are mostly trying to win now, so the pick has less value. This is where Green comes in, as DA loovvess draft picks. 

Some sort of deal centered around:

To Bos: 1st round pick
To Mem: Jeff Green
To Cle: Koufos

Obviously some stuff would need to be added in to make all the numbers work, but I bet this is what they're thinking..

[piercetruth34]

It sounds like the C's could be involved because they want to trade Green.

Cleveland has very few tradeable assets. The article mentions that 1 first found pick as the starting point, which they need to somehow turn into a center. The teams that have tradeable centers are mostly trying to win now, so the pick has less value. This is where Green comes in, as DA loovvess draft picks. 

Some sort of deal centered around:

To Bos: 1st round pick
To Mem: Jeff Green
To Cle: Koufos

Obviously some stuff would need to be added in to make all the numbers work, but I bet this is what they're thinking..

That sounds about right.  It wouldn't surprise if Ainge has something else up his sleave too.  I'm sort of expecting a couple moves by ainge to come this deadline.

It still might be early to move a guy like Gerald Wallace but he is probably going to move someone besides Green possibly.  I kind of expect Bradley to still be here.  Maybe Bass or Thornton although if we move green we might just hang onto thornton and bass.  I'm starting to think Green is a goner though.

[Tr1boy]

Dont think cavs nor grizzlies will include a 1st. Maybe 2nds

Cavs get us waiters. Then cavs prepare to sign ray allen

[piercetruth34]

Seems like the rumors we have are Isiah Thomas, waiters or green getting dealt.  Ainge will do something else entirely or nothing at all.

[Eddie20]

can we send our 13 million dollar trade exception to Cleveland?
They pick up a center and a back up wing/SG?

God if we could get anything for Green we need to do it now.
Danny would pull the trigger for a few 2nd rounders, but no one wants the chump.

We were shopping green but supposedly the deals that were out there weren't too good.  I'm not sure Green gets moved but maybe DA will find something.  Bass is the same issue.  We've been shopping him but no takers so far.

Houston if Josh Smith goes elsewhere might come back for Green again. They still have Terrence jones but who knows.  The teams interested in josh smith that don't get him might look at green again.

DA is always good at waiting until he gets what he wants.  He doesn't just trade for the sake of it.

I don't recall any trade rumor about Houston wanting Green.  If they did, they could have had him for the New Orleans pick.  I would have agreed with you before the Rondo trade but Ainge certainly settled on that one.

There were rumors of green being shopped to Houston along with rondo for parsons, I think it was Lin and Asik. I actually liked that deal.  Ainge might have settled a little but what we got back was similar.  Not parsons.  thing is I actually though Terrence jones made more sense at the time.  The issues with jones anyways there it may have.  The sac trade and all that. I think we did alright.  For what this team is trying to do and build with youth ainge waited and didn't hurt this team.   

Getting those players back isn't necessarily better imo for what we are trying to do.  It's like apples and oranges taking those guys back and having to sign Parsons to an extension.  Going the draft route is good with me.  I was always more on the fence trade rondo or not.   Go all in with the draft or build with rondo. I think we did the right thing.  I hope at least.

I've always hated those in between trades that don't solve anything.

I wouldn't have made the Rondo trade for what we got in return.  I think adding a good player with Rondo and Green would have made us competitive in the weak east so I would have risked losing Rondo for nothing in free agency.

You mean you would have risked losing Rondo AND Green in FA, and I wonder where that good player would have come from.

You're right we could have lost both Rondo and Green for nothing and if Ainge manages to trade Green for a 1st that would mean two late 1sts lost.  However, we'd still have the possibility of getting similar deals via sign and trades.  As to who that good player would be, one possibility is Monroe during free agency.  I have a feeling the trade season is going to be pretty active and Ainge has the assets to outbid anyone if someone he wants becomes available.

Really? Why would the player agree to a S&T when a team could sign him outright without sending an asset out? This has no benefit to anyone other than the Cs.